Italy Trip

I see a couple of issues to be resolved. First, it's a lot of stops in a limited time.

Second, that's a lot of people to wrangle. Have you all traveled together before? As first-timers, I wouldn't recommend renting a villa or even apartments; I would stick with hotels. Unless you have been to other countries and are comfortable with different household systems for appliances, etc. Remember that a group moves as efficiently as its most inefficient member.

Back to point #1: If you want to see every place on your list, you would have to choose a base (Firenze has great train/bus connections) and daytrip, for example, stay in Firenze and daytrip to the Chianti area, Siena, and San Gimignano; this means at least 5 nights in Firenze). Or, sign on to a daytrip tour of the Tuscan countryside - some will get you to two or three hill towns, with stops at vineyards.

You could begin your trip by going immediately to Venezia from FCO airport, and after a couple of nights there, take the fast train to Firenze. Five nights there, then go to Napoli, Sorrento or Positano for 2 nights. Then go to Roma for the remainder of your nights, so you don't have to split time in Roma and backtrack for your departure.

You might also find a daytrip from Roma to Napoli/Pompei, but it would be a very long day.

I would try to eliminate as many moves as possible for a group this size. If you have to cut anything, I would say cut Napoli/Positano and make Roma (perhaps with a daytrip to Pompei) your last stop.

Have you looked at any of the Rick Steves Tours? That might take some pressure off of you. There is a "Best of Italy Rome-Venice-Florence Tour" in 10 days; you could spend an extra day or two at the beginning or the end of your trip (ten days for these three cities is moving pretty fast, I would spend the extra nights in Roma).

It is doable but a whirlwind. You may just want to use either one: Florence, San Gimignano or Sienna as a base city to explore each other on day trips so that you are not checking in and out of hotels so often and having to unpack and repack stuff. This is how you lose stuff.

There are two daily one way flights from Venice to Naples on Easy Jet http://www.easyjet.com/en that would save you some time on your way to Postiano and then back to Rome for the flight back.
Maybe use Naples as a base to explore Postiano or vice versa. That way you are not checking in out of hotels so often.

It is really difficult to get 8 people up and moving in the same direction. I think you should really consider that in your plans and eliminate Positano and Naples. I would add the nights to Venice, Florence and Rome. I also would recommend the RS 10 Day Venice, Florence, and Rome tour that a previous poster recommended. I know you will see a lot more in that time period and possibly save a friendship. Italy can be challenging. Reservations are required to get into a lot of sights. If you try to do it on your own, be sure to get buying on what are the must sees. Will one person be in charge and have the final say in a tie vote on what you are going to do that day? Have you traveled together before? Does everyone like to get up early or sleep in? There is a lot of things to consider when traveling with 8 people.

Thanks for posting a new thread. I assume you've already bought your airline tickets. If not, it would be better to fly into Venice and out of Rome on a multi-city ticket.

Is May 12 the date you leave home or the date you arrive in Italy? What is your departure date?

Since your trip is short, do everything you can to minimize hotel changes. They are time-consuming and really annoying, especially when you're trying to corral eight people! I'd put all the Rome time at the end of the trip since you need to return there for your flight home anyway.

The arrival day from the US is normally experienced in a jet-lagged fog (with some people having a much harder time than others, another issue for a group of eight), and most of us don't really count it as a day in Europe. One very good use of that day is to head to one of the other cities you plan to visit. If you fall asleep on the train, so what? That gets one of the necessary travel days out of the way right away, when you're going to be rather unproductive anyway.

Many people will suggest heading for Venice first thing since it's a good place to deal with jet-lag and is the destination farthest from Rome. The tricky part is knowing what to do about the train tickets. Since there are eight of you, you'll want to be prudent about their cost. Buying tickets way in advance can save a lot of money, compared to waiting until your arrival. But the lowest prices are on non-changeable/non-refundable tickets, and it's difficult to predict how long it will take you to be ready to hop on a train. Your flight could be late, there could be a back-up at the Immigration desk, there could be a delay in receiving your luggage.

You can explore train schedules and fares on the TrenItalia website. (Do not buy a railpass! Do not buy overpriced tickets from RailEurope!) You'll need to use the Italian spelling of the city names/train stations: Fiumicino Aeroporto, Roma (Tutti Le Stazione), Firenze S M Novella, Venezia Santa Lucia, Napoli, Siena.

It appears that if you wait until arrival and buy your tickets at the airport train station, you will pay 90-130 euros per person (I assume less for children) for a ticket from Fiumicino Airport to Venice. That's a lot of money. When I look at prices for early March (buying about 90 days ahead of time), I see fares mostly between 30 and 50 euros. This is why lots of travelers pin down their travel days very early, to snap up those cheap tickets. But it's tricky to do on the day you arrive from the US, as I explained above. Some travelers just pick a departure time 3 or 4 hours after their flight is due to arrive and cross their fingers. I confess that I am not that gutsy.

If you're not comfortable gambling on non-refundable tickets to Venice, you might instead start your trip in Florence. You could wait until your arrival and pay last-minute prices for train tickets to Florence. For today, that might be as low as 50-60 euros per adult, but it could be higher than that.

I don't think you have time to visit both Venice and Naples/Positano. All of the times you've proposed for cities are really too short. When you spend two nights in a city, you have only one day plus a few hours there. You can't see a city like Florence and take a day-trip in that amount of time. It will be a better vacation if you stick to Rome, Florence (with a Tuscan day-trip or two) and either Venice or Naples/Positano. I'd go with Venice because it's easier to reach and may need fewer days, which frees up time for nice visits to Florence/Tuscany and Rome. Most folks who go down to the Naples area want to visit the Amalfi Drive, Pompeii, maybe Capri and the archaeological museum. That's a lot more moving around than you need to do in Venice, though there are some nice side-trips you can make from Venice if you have time.

Are you, by chance, planning to rent cars?

We already bought the ticket, May 8 is when we're flying in to Rome.

We would prefer not to rent cars, but do the train or get someone to drive us around... Right now we're looking for ANY suggestions.

Thanks to all the suggestions we got and will be asking more questions as we digest all the information posted.

Tell us more about what you like to do when you travel. Do you enjoy having leisure time to explore places? Do you put a lot of value on being able to say you "saw" someplace or something, even if only briefly? What are your goals for this trip? You know, that kind of stuff. It will get you more helpful suggestions. After all, there is no one-size-fits-all approach to travel.

Also, have you read the Rick Steves Italy book?

I'm with the others than there are too many moves, and too short a time in too many places. Rome alone deserves a minimum of 3 FULL days/4 nights.

I'm unsure of exactly how many nights you have IN Italy but I'd go with taking a train directly to Venice from Rome, staying three nights, then Florence for 4-5 nights, and then to Rome for the balance of your days. Day trip by train/bus from Florence to a couple of Tuscan towns OR book a tour or two.

Save the Amalfi for a future trip as it's the outlier, involves backtracking, and needs more than two nights.

As already cautioned, the logistics of moving 8 people every other day - packing, getting to stations, sitting on trains, getting to hotels, unpacking - could be stressful, and will eat up lots of valuable time better spent sightseeing. You'll also be working around some days that some of the big attractions are closed so you don't want the one full day you have in ANY city to be one of those!

I don't like this plan for a couple in their mid-twenties, for a group of 8 all traveling to Italy for the first time I really dislike it.
Way too many places. If you cannot extend the trip, you need to drop some locations and save for the next trip.
The 8 of you might be friends now but unlikely to be post trip if you keep this plan.

Entire regions need to be removed. Think 2 main regions and 3 places to lay your heads as ideal.
Would try to travel to furthest place away first after landing in Rome and then stay in Rome and see Rome at the end leaving 4 nights for Rome.
Rome and Amalfi Coast including Naples is fine OR Rome and Tuscany (could pick a couple of places to stay in Tuscany ; Florence plus 1 other), OR Rome and Venice ; with possible day trips is also fine to places nearby each.

You don't have time to do all this and especially with no car and 8 people. It takes two nights to get one full day in a place and every change f rom city to city eats up much of a day and then having to train between cities chews up time. Coordinating 8 people is always a nightmare and it chews up endless time as one after another needs to use the bathroom, or 'just do this one thing' or find their misplaced this or that. Consider splitting up in smaller groups when you are in a place so everyone gets to do mostly what they want to do and people are not endlessly waiting on each other.

Your current plan is all hassle and getting there with almost no time to see or enjoy anything.

I would base in 3 places at the most. Spend 5 nights in Florence which would give you 3 days of Florence and two days for local day trips. Take a tour that covers some Tuscan towns, maybe San Gimignano and Siena. Or do a day trip by bus to Siena. You could also easily do Lucca by train as a day trip with a quick stop in Pisa if you wanted. And head for Florence the day you arrive in Rome; that day is shot with jet lag and your hotel won't be available at 8 am or so when you arrive, so train on to Florence and finish in Rome. Otherwise you waste the second to last day rushing back to Rome.

I would then decide if you wanted to do Venice or south of Rome. I'd probably do 3 nights in Venice and then train to Rome and finish there. From Rome you could do day trips to Ostia Antica (ruins of a 2000 year old Roman town similar to Pompeii but located on the Rome public transport system) and Tivoli with the magnificent Villa Adriana ruins and the Villa d'Este Gardens or even Orvieto an interesting hill town north of Rome. You need 3 full days in Rome to see the basics of the Vatican and historic Rome.

If you really want to do this kind of hit and run travel you should book a tour and let someone bus you all these places and herd you about -- I personally loath this kind of travel but it is the efficient way to see maximum stops in minimum time.

...And head for Florence the day you arrive in Rome.

Yes. I'd suggested earlier heading right to Venice and then Florence>Rome but going straight to Florence then Venice> Rome would work too. Lots of members have mentioned liking to put Venice on the front end but Florence will be a shorter journey on arrival day. No one right answer; it's up to individual preference.

Heed the advice not to pre-purchase your arrival day train tickets should you experience a flight or other delay. The exception would be if you can land really cheap super-economy (non-changeable, non-refundable) Trenitalia tickets that you're willing to eat the cost of should you miss your train. Economy tickets would work as well: you can change those once but have to pay the base-fare price difference.

But your train questions might be best dealt with on a new post once you have your itinerary set. Italo (a private high-speed train service between larger cities) will be another options you should look into when you get around to tickets.

I agree with a lot of what others have said. You have a lot crammed into a short period of time. I suggest looking at the RS tours (especially the Best of Venice, Florence and Rome in 10 days and My Way® Italy in 13 Days Tour) for itinerary ideas. They can be found here:
https://www.ricksteves.com/tours/italy

For us to give you better advice, please let us know your interests (churches, antiquities, culture, food, wineries, medieval towns, etc.). Also, what are the ages of those going? Do they have similar interests? If not, logistics could be a pain. I will say that being in a larger city would help alleviate some of that concern because one group could hit the Vatican Museum while the other goes to Ostia Antica for example.

With 12 days, I would narrow it down to 3 destinations due to the number of people traveling. One thing to keep in mind is that you can save a bunch of $$ on train travel per person if you book well in advance (up to 120 days). You can also base yourself in one city and do day trips to other towns (for example, see Siena from Florence).

For accommodations, you can try hotels or use VRBO for apartments. I suggest booking this as soon as you decide on cities because it may be tough to find room for 8.

I realize now that I don't know your precise arrival date in Italy (not looking for the date you depart from home). Can you give us that so there won't be any confusion on exactly how many nights you have in Italy?

Please also tell us the make-up of your group. Is it a bunch of adults, or is it a multi-generational family group?

I don't think anyone has given you this bit of good news: The trains running from Rome to Florence to Venice (and back to Rome) are very fast and are certainly the fastest way to move between the big cities. There are nice, relatively quick side trips you can take from each of those cities if you decide you're ready to experience a smaller city or town (which I highly recommend).

We arrive 5/9, we would like to do definitely wineries, church, and food. The group is adults early 40 and 50s, no kids involved. I think we'll be splitting the group in 2. We'll be getting together soon to lay out the plans, we do have at least 2 who are going to steer the plans, hence we looking for suggestions. Some of us have travelled together before to South Africa, but it was through a travel group with specific itineraries, this vacation is pretty much on our own. This forum is extremely enlightening and informative. Look forward to more information as we put our plans together., and will definitely share it with you guys.

Just to clarify, and possibly save some confusion.
5/9 in Europe and most places outside the USA is the fifth of September.

Good to know you are all adults, and are willing to split up occasionally.

Please get a copy of the Rick Steves Italy book, it will be helpful for first-timers to Italy.

latcee,

To begin with, IMHO you'll need to pare down the list of places you'll be visiting. You've mentioned nine different places to be visited in 12 days, an average of 1.3 days per location. Just to clarify, you're departing JFK on 8 May and arriving in Rome on 9 May? In planning your touring for the first few days, be sure to allow for jet lag, which will likely affect at least a few members of your group.

For this trip, the first places to cut from the list are Positano (no rail links so more difficult to access) and Naples (stick to Rome and north this time). Also, forget about one night stops as they only allow a few hours for touring, so are somewhat a waste of time. I'd suggest at least 3 nights in Florence for a couple of reasons.....

• there's lots to see there and lots of good restaurants and hotels.
• it makes a great "home base" for touring other parts of Tuscany. For example, it's only about a one hour trip by Bus from Florence to Siena, so that's an easy day trip. Other nearby places that can be easily visited are Pisa and Lucca.

If this is your first trip anywhere in Europe, my first suggestion is to read Europe Through The Back Door, which provides a lot of good information on how to travel in Europe, and the differences you'll encounter there (such as the date format). It's not a good idea to use numbers only such as "5/9" as that makes it difficult to decipher which day and month you're referring to. I would also suggest packing along at least one copy of the RS Italy guidebook, as that provides lots of information on sightseeing, transportation, hotels, etc. If you're splitting the group, it might be an idea for each group to have the Italy guidebook to refer to. That book will likely save you some money and will for sure make the trip go more smoothly.

Regarding your comment about "or get someone to drive us around", forget that idea as it will be horrendously expensive, especially for a group of eight (with luggage). I'd also recommend against renting cars, as there are some potentially expensive "caveats" to be aware of with driving in Italy. At the least you'd need two large cars or a large van, neither of which would be easy for navigating narrow city streets.

Using trains and other public transit is the most efficient and quickest way to get around (especially if using the fast trains, which travel at up to 300 km/h). However there are also some potentially expensive "caveats" to be aware of when using public transit in Italy. If you need more information on that, post another note. One point to note is that many cities in Europe have more than one rail station, so you must know which one you'll be using when buying tickets.

How "definite" is Venice with those in your group? One plan you might consider would be to travel directly to Venice after arrival in Rome, and then work your way back for your flight home. If you travel by train, that will add 4-5 hours to the trip, but you since you'll be at the airport anyway a budget flight might be just as easy.

If Venice isn't definite, skip it this time and focus on Florence and Rome, with day trips from each. Again, I'd suggest going directly to Florence after you arrive at FCO, as it's only about a 90 minute trip. Start in Florence and work your way back to Rome for the flight home.

With a group of eight, it would be a good idea to book hotels well in advance if you want to keep everyone in the same hotel.

If you'd rather have someone else do all the work, you could also sign up for one of the Rick Steves Italy tours.

Good luck with your planning!

I think your group needs a mantra and it should be "less is more." Get them to say it often at every planning session.

The joy of travel, and this is especially true in Italy, is to be in a foreign environment and savor every moment, whether it's seeing a spectacular monument or art work, or simply sitting at a sidewalk cafe sipping an espresso or a glass of local wine and watching the locals and crazy tourists rushing around.

With 11 (?) nights, I'd stay in only 3 places. It sounds like you'll need 4 rooms, that will take time to check in and out one room at a time, plus the usual time to pack/unpack and get to/from train stations. Since you're flying in and out of Rome, I'd make Florence the first stop. There are frequent trains from the Rome Termini train station and the tickets at full price are about half the cost of going to Venice. You can buy the tickets from Florence to Venice and from Venice to Rome well in advance and get the big discounts.

4 nights Florence, 3 nights Venice, and 4 nights Rome. Using the train schedules, you can see how much time you'll have in each city. Depending on what you want to see and do, you can move a night from Florence to Rome or vice versa. I would not spend less than 3 nights in Venice because of how long it will take to get there and leave there. Travel in Venice is slow especially with luggage, unless you're staying a hotel that's a very short walk from the train station. If you can't allot 3 nights to Venice, I don't think it's worth using up so much time to get there and back. Staying a few nights in only 3 places allows you to split up according to interests and meet up later for that afternoon respite over a drink or even later for dinner together.

In Florence, you can day trip by bus to Siena or San Gimignano (not both on one day). You can probably organize a private tour that would go to both if everyone's on the same page. On another day, a winery tour.

In Rome, consider a private day tour to Pompeii with a stop at the Archeology Museum in Naples. That might be more efficient than going on your own. Another option is to take the short train ride to Ostia Antica. The ruins aren't as impressive as Pompeii, but still from the same time period and quite interesting. That would also allow for some of your group to opt out and do something else.

Latcee, even if the others involved are paying all of your expenses, you have taken on a monumental task.. Cat wrangling is very tough.

everyone is paying for their own way, but it will work out..

It is a common mistake when first planning a trip to Italy. You see all of the amazing places to visit have a hard time saying I will skip this one or that one, see how close they are on a map and come up with a totally unrealistic plan.

The fact that your group enjoys wine, food, etc... is all the more reason to slow down and pick just 2 regions for your trip.
Since you are flying both into and out of Rome, I think limiting it to just Rome and Tuscany makes the most sense.
Fly into Rome, immediately take the train to Florence stay in Florence. Decide if you want to just keep 1 base of Florence for Tuscany (you need 2 full days to see just Florence's city I would say) or if you want to stay 3 nights here and then move to a smaller town/city for 3 more nights. Tuscany has so much to do and see, the options could occupy months.
Than train to Rome and spend the rest of the time there.
If you wanted to include Venice you could do it as a day trip by train one full day.
You could do 3 nights Venice but then really won't be able to see much of the Tuscan countryside and hill towns/cities which you mention are of interest.
You should at all costs avoid any 1 night stays with a group of 8 !!! I would keep any stays to 3 or more nights for such a group, even if as a couple you are fine with 2 nights (which really means 1 full day to see where you are) with such a group moving around will not be easy.

I think all of the advice that "less is more" is spot on. I just wanted to share my personal experience from my Italy trip last year. We did Florence, Cinque Terre, San Gimignano, Orvieto, Pompeii, Positano, and Rome in 3 weeks.

We all agreed that we will never stay only one night in a destination ever again. We were always disappointed that we were moving on so quickly because there was always a lot to see even in small towns. The best part of traveling, in my opinion, is getting to know a place rather than just passing through like a whirlwind. Plus, it was not fun hauling our luggage (and we packed light with only carry ons). Not to mention, we were exhausted by the end of our trip from our packed schedule.

I also want to add that places that seem close, like Rome to Positano, actually take a good half a day to get to on multiple forms of transportation. I have been to Italy many times and I thought I knew what to expect, but It was actually more challenging than I had thought to get from Rome to Positano. You have to take Trenitalia to Naples, and then get on the Circumvesuviana (Naples regional train, which feels more like a crowded NY subway) to Sorrento. Then from there, you need to take a bus or taxi to Positano. I loved Positano, but I would definitely not include it on a quick trip. It's one of those places that needs to be savored.

My advice would be to choose to go north of Rome, or south of Rome, but not both. It would be easy to go Rome - Florence - Venice OR Rome - Naples - Positano.

Questions I would ask yourselves to decide: Is this a once in a lifetime trip to Italy where it's necessary to see a lot in a short amount of time? Or do you plan on going back again and can afford to spend some time getting to know a region? Is it important to have a relaxing vacation, or do you prefer to be on the go? Would you rather spend time on the beach or hiking (Positano) or see more art & museums (Florence).

Buon viaggio! Good luck planning your trip and I hope you have a wonderful time. :)

i'm back with a few more questions.

We've decided that we're splitting the group in 2, How practical is Florence, Siena & Cinque Terre? We landing in Rome may 9th.
1. We would like to do day trips from Siena to Cinque Terre, (i think this is where we have the 5 villages), is this something that is doable?
2. what's the distance between Siena and Cinque Terre, and what suggested mode of transportation should we be looking at? (car rental, train or hiring someone to drive us around)

Siena to Cinque Terre is sort of far for a day trip. There are train departures at 7:32 AM (takes over 4 hr.) and 9:18 AM (takes 3 hr. 35 min.)

Traveling from Florence to Cinque Terre would be quicker.

It appears that a rental car or a hired driver would be the fastest option. Understand, though, that doing this will get you to the C.T. at about the time all the other daytrippers arrive and clog the streets.

There's minimal road access to most of the villages, so even if you hired a driver, you might need to use the train (which runs frequently) to move from village to village. The five villages are very close together.

Latcee, the Cinque Terre is really too far away to do as a day trip from Siena. You'd spend too big a chunk of your day in transport. I personally think even doing it from Florence is pushing the limit.

The best way to experience the CT, IMHO, is to stay there. It's much nicer in the evenings and in the early mornings before/after the crowds have arrived/departed.

Thanks for the information. I guess doing trips like these without a travel group has proven more difficult that anticipated. I'm working through this plan and looking at suggestions I've received from this group.

Can you hook the current arrangements into an RS tour? Then most of the problems are solved ... perhaps? Simplify, simplify ... otherwise you could have 12 days of stress and "herding cats" ... not fun.

It sounds like too many people wanting too many things. I think it's best to keep it simple with optional choices available so people can spend the odd day doing their own things.
Day 1 - Arrive Rome. Train to Venice (3 nights)
Days 2,3 - Venice sights
Day 4 - Train to Florence (3 nights)
Day 5 - Florence sights
Day 6 - Options to Siena, Chianti, San Gimignano
Day 7 - Train (via Naples) to Sorrento (3 nights)
Days 8,9 - Options to Capri, Positano, Naples, Pompeii
Day 10 - Train to Rome (3 nights)
Days 11,12 - Rome sights
Day 13 - Depart Rome