Italy travel

First post, hmmmm.

I spent the last 90 days in Italy, in city centers and in small towns, and I can confidently contradict every negative statement in your post.

I don't know when or where you went, or how long you spent in Italy, or what you expected.

i would also challenge the statements you make without offering proof, such as the limiting of visitors to Cinque Terre - an idea that has been floated for several years now. As far as I know, it's still an idea and not a plan.

Sorry you didn't enjoy your vacation.

Ya, this is a little suspicious. I guess a lot has changed in six months IF any of this is accurate. Sure wasn't that way when we were there. Son and dil just make a quick run in May through Rome and Venice and would not confirm any of the above. Just would like a little more confirmation for all of the above comments.

Sounds like a case of "you see what you want to see"

On the bright side, 2 less tourists to Italy next year.

It's unfortunate that you had such a dismal travel experience in Italy. It sounds like you were travelling in different parts of Italian cities than I've been to. A few thoughts about some of the points you mentioned.....

• Inept governments - Since 1946, Italians have had about 62 governments. That's hardly a model for getting things done. Despite that, the country seems to work reasonably well (at least from a tourist's perspective).
• Poor maintenance of public areas - that problem seems to exist in other places too, as many governments are struggling to maintain services with limited budgets.
• Trains - the comfort level of Regionale trains sometimes leaves something to be desired, but I've always found the Freccia trains to be very comfortable and the A/C works! The Italo trains are always comfortable (in my experience). Perhaps you could try those next time?
• Cinque Terre - you mentioned Vernazza but didn't comment on the other four towns of the Cinque Terre (FWIW I also try to avoid Vernazza during peak times). Yes, the C.T. has become popular mainly due to the cruise ships, but that's mostly a problem in the day time, between about 10:00 - 16:00. The evenings are usually quite pleasant.
• Italian government reducing visitors to the Cinque Terre - based on numerous discussions here on the forum, that's likely a load of rubbish, as no decision has been made to limit visitors. Many of the rumours seemed to start due to the musings of a regional government official, but AFAIK that's not likely to happen anytime in the near future. Perhaps you could indicate where you heard about the visitor limits? Incidentally, it's not only Italy that has started to resent tourist hordes - https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2017/aug/10/anti-tourism-marches-spread-across-europe-venice-barcelona

I've had a few unpleasant experiences in Italy, but despite that I still consider it a beautiful and unique country, so will continue to visit as long as I'm able to.

Zoe, Frank, Chani, Ken kinda said it all. Admittedly, I'm not exactly a water-glass-half-full guy myself. I see things for what they are, and if I'm going to spend the shekels to travel to Italy, I'm sure as heck going to avoid the things that might aggravate me, like massive amounts of tourists and heat. So that's why we visit Italy in the off season.

Italy's economic woes are not sugar-coated and hidden--they're out there warts and all, just like the open personalities of the residents.

But what a shame not to enjoy all this wonderful country has to offer, and that's why we return again and again. To each their own...

When you count Italian governments, please keep in mind that in the recent years governments have longer lives. In the sixties governments were short lived, but were mostly composed of few people that exchanged seats between them, in a sort of musical chairs game. Mr. Giulio Andreotti, just to make an example, was seven time prime minister, eight times defense minister, seven times foreign affairs minister and thirteen times head of several ministeries - he was always in charge with changing roles. So the number of governments is deceiving as actually the old system was more stable than the present one. Actually, the most successful years of Italian economy are those of short lived governments.

Taking the bad with the good is nothing new in travel, including to popular destinations of Italy. While some of your statements recall old issues, they don't ring true to me as a new trend.

I have never seen so much graffiti, litter, broken beer bottles, and trash in all my many travels there over the years. The railroad station areas are especially bad and town centers are especially bad.

This sounds a lot like my experiences around Firenze S. Maria Novella train station in the mid-1990s, or the university area of central Bologna on a Sunday morning in 2013, or any time I've approached Milano Centrale station by train (graffiti). It's also been said about Naples for years, but I haven't spent much time there.

The number of trains have been cut back so the trains are packed.

I'm not aware of many trains being cut back and I'm one who probably would notice. It might apply in Sicily or southern Italy and train service from Venice to the Austrian border at Villach was reduced at least 5 years ago. In the case of the Cinque Terre, the number of regional trains connecting the 5 towns was significantly increased last year, so that they now run twice per hour. Along the central, high speed rail line, Frecce trains from Milan to Rome, for instance, also run every half hour, and that's not counting those operated by the competing company, Italo.

Air conditioned means warm air.

For years, Rick's books suggested taking first class in Italy in the summer for "better air conditioning." I think we're finally taking this statement out, since so much service is by the newest, fastest trains.

Faded buildings in Vernazza.

Considering the amount of digging out and rebuilding they had to do after the disastrous mudslide of Oct. 25, 2011, I'd cut them some slack and would also note that many things are brand new. The number of tourists coming from big cruise ships that now stop in La Spezia has steadily increased over the past few years and this year was scheduled to be the busiest yet, per industry reports.

I think tourists overwhelming a site (the Cinque Terre and Venice would fall into this category) is a real and legitimate issue with a number of tactics being tried all over Europe. Not sure if anything really can work, the areas are a victim of success. If a move is made to limit visits, they might as well make it a "pay to Visit" system, charging what the market will bear for entrance directly. Sounds bad, limiting great sights to those that can afford it, but if they simply offer tickets on a first come first serve basis (like the Eiffel tower and other attractions) then they will be swept up by tour companies anyway who will charge a premium to no benefit of the people keeping the site up.

We have not been to the Cinque Terre in years, the last time, yes, we experienced the crushing crowds, especially in Vernazza, but the other towns were much more pleasant, especially after the School Groups, Cruise Tours, and Daytrippers were gone; Venice much the same.

We have been able to travel with a rental car to throw our bikes in the boot. We have cycled routes of the Giro Italia, France, and Spain. These roads have lead us to many small communities. We booked a B&B in just outside Venice with parking, we arrived and were asked if it was ok to stay in apartment near by. Have you ever followed a wild and crazy Italian driver, good looking too!
We were lead to a great apartment on a wonderful square. All those locals were wondering who the heck you were. A Zoo near the cave paintings in Spain and the sea off to the east. The Cave Painting Exhibition by chance was a free day. In the Spring 2017 we travel Portugal and a quick trip to Seville without our bikes. The Plaza de Espana, Seville is beautiful and laden with graffiti. There appeared to be no option to remove it. The pictures of the Plaza are far superior to our experience seeing it.

As others I have many stories. I would prefer to experience the better side of SLC, UT, and the other countries I have visited. I prefer to experience the community side of a city or country and avoid tourist sites. Having said that my husband has not seen Rome. So, we are off!

I agree with never returning to CT but I have been there twice!

Sounds like a case of "you see what you want to see" On the bright
side, 2 less tourists to Italy next year.

I'm with you, Chani. It's very easy to overlook a few warts when there's a piece of 2,000 year-old architecture or 12-century fresco in front of your face.

And I LOVE the trains: wish we could get around so easily here without a car. That's a real pain for tourists to the U.S. from abroad, BTW. Just try to get to many of our own greatest treasures - our National Parks - without your own wheels or an organized tour.

Speaking of our parks, if you think overcrowding at Vernazza is bad, try getting into Yosemite during high season.
https://www.nationalparkstraveler.org/2017/07/op-ed-yosemite-so-crowded-you-cant-park-youll-still-pay-enter

Similar issues at Zion, Arches, and some others.

I always have trouble giving much credibility to rants about trains, fines, scams, etc., from first time posters. I always suspect that there is a hidden agenda since the first two comments was immigration and government. I am sure it is an accurate perception because we all erect filters that only allow certain info to flow through. I think it is sad since all the focus on the negative prevents anything positive from flowing through.

I suspect you're right, Frank.
Sad, ain't it?