My husband and I looking at Italy in late July. Flying into Venice and out of Munich. We will be spending 4 days in CT - timing during trip is not set yet. Then the rest is up in the air. Considering Verona, Volterra, Florence, Bologna, Colmar,France, and Chamonix. Looking for suggestions. We would prefer not having a car. I would also like to hit a thermal spa.
Thanks,
Michelle
How many nights will you have on the ground? People can give better suggestions if they know the time frame you have to work with...
How much time do you have? According to the Deutsche Bahn website, Colmar is at least a 9-hour train ride from the Cinque Terre, and Chamonix would be at least 10 hours. Chamonix's also at least 9 hours from Munich. Rather than Chamonix, have you thought about the Dolomites? That area is beautiful, would be easier to reach than Chamonix and would leave you closer to Munich.
We are planning on 12 days there.
We are planning on 12 days there.
If you have 12 nights and you're flying into Venice and out of Munich and you want to allocate 4 nights to the CT, you're basically out of time there and I don't think that anything in France fits in at all. You'd have a much better trip if you limit yourself to things that are closer to Venice and Munich, assuming you've already bought your air tickets.
You could do Venice, CT, Verona, somewhere in the mountains that interests you and then Munich with 3-3-2-2-2 nights in each place but even that is very rushed.
Sorry...just to clarify...are those 12 days total in Europe or does that include your arrival/departure days? Which would only give you 10 days. And most people recommend thinking in terms of nights on the ground...at least on this forum...eg...12 days is typically 11 nights...
Yes. It is a short 12 days. That's all I can get my husband to leave home for and not be too stressed. It is 12 days in country and we have actually been to Venice before. So we don't have to spend more time there. We have also been to Munich before too.
The next question we have in order to help you more.
Why into Venice and out of Munich if as you say you have no need to visit either one. (Air Miles ticket)?
Why not into and out of Milan which as easy access to Verona, Volterra, Florence and Bologna.
Or multi-city airline ticket going into Milan and out of Geneva Switzerland which would make adding Chamonix easy.
Again the more details we have the better answers we can give you.
I am still not clear on how many hotel nights you will have on this trip as I are still not sure if you are counting the day you arrive and the day you depart in the 12 short days.
Changing the airports is a great suggestion. We were looking at cost of flights as a factor. Maybe we should also factor in cost of train and travel time between locations. We are open.
Last year I visited Colmar, France and then took the train to Vernazza, Italy. I can tell you that it is a long day. If I were you I would look at flying from Pisa to Geneva and then taking a train/bus to Chamonix or Colmar. This is cheaper and will save you a lot of time.
You might not want 4 nights in the Cinque Terra. It is a lovely area, but very touristy, especially in July.
Play around with any remotely likely major-city airport in the area around the Alps. It all depends on your origin, but I imagine Munich is working well for you. From my home I've seen comparatively low fares for Milan and Zurich. I bet Milan will be less expensive than Venice, and flying out of Venice sometimes comes at the cost of a very pricey super-early airport transfer because of the flight schedule.
I'm with Valerie on this: with only 12 days (and 4 of those in the CT) I don't see how you're going to fit France in at all. The best sense would be to fly in and out of Milan and create a circle for your 5 locations in Italy. Honestly, 12 nights give you only 2 nights/1.5 days in the 4 Italian locations aside of the CT, and even less for one of them as you'll want to stay close to Milan on the evening before your flight home.
This many locations (5) in a short of time involves a lot of packing/unpacking/checking in/out and time dealing with transport. Really, I would scrap France altogether and save it for a different trip as I think you'll be doing enough running as it is?
We have changed our itinerary based on some responses. We would love some more advice as there is room for adjustment.
7/24/17 Arrive in Rome, Travel towards Florence - Maybe stop in or stay in Volterra. Maybe Tuscany agritourismo? Or even Dolomites?
7/25/17 Florence/Tuscany/Volterra/Dolomites
7/26/17 Florence/Tuscany/Volterra/Dolomites
7/27/17 Cinque Terre - Stay in Vernazza? Dinner in Manorola at Trattoria dal Billy
7/28/17 Cinque Terre
7/29/17 Cinque Terre
7/30/17 Travel to Genoa via Train, Fly from Genoa to Catania, Sicily
7/31/17 Sicily
8/1/17 Sicily
8/2/17 Sicily
8/3/17 Fly from Palermo to Rome
8/4/17 Fly home
We are pretty set on Cinque Terre and Sicily, although we do not have places to stay yet or an exact itinerary. We are open on the Florence/Tuscany/Dolomites/Volterra. This could easily be Sorrento/Naples/Pompeii. Thoughts? Critiques?
Thanks,
Michelle
Please don't go to Sicily for just a few days. It is a fabulous destination, but as a large island it needs much more time than you have. To even begin to harvest its treasures you need multiple bases (I'd say at least 3, and 4 would be better.) I spent over 2 weeks in Sicily in 2015 and didn't get to the SW part of the island. In addition, Sicily will almost certainly be brutally hot in July. Please leave it for another trip when you are free to travel in spring or fall.
Whoa. That's big switch.
7/24/17 Arrive in Rome, Travel towards Florence - Maybe stop in or
stay in Volterra. Maybe Tuscany agritourismo? Or even Dolomites?
7/25/17 Florence/Tuscany/Volterra/Dolomites 7/26/17
Florence/Tuscany/Volterra/Dolomites
I would scrap everything but Florence (which is IN Tuscany). You will only have 2 full days there as it is: barely time to even take a day trip although you could take 1 of the 2 days to do that. Arrival in Italy after an international flight + transport to Florence could be all you can manage on that day.
I'd also scrap the agritourismo: most of them are in the country and require a car, and I'd agree that Sicily requires more time than you have.
(Editing to add a nod of the head and exclamation points to craven's comment about July heat in Sicily. !!!)
What we're missing here is what you want to do in Italy? There are major centers for history, art and architecture (Florence is one of these), others for outdoor pursuits and scenery, and still others for lounging and strolling about. What sorts of activities are you looking for?
Is Rome cheaper than Milan from your origin?
If you're willing to skip Sicily on this trip, you could do Dolomites (OR Lake District--quicker to access) - Florence/Tuscany - Cinque Terre. You have only ten real days (not counting your arrival/jet-lagged day. Three areas is the most I'd want to tackle, and with either the mountain or lake option you'd have three distinctly different experiences, all wonderful.
You should count nights on the ground. Days must accommodate travel (and waiting) time, and may be shorter than they appear.
Sicilia in three days/four nights is really tough. I did it once, spent most of the time on trains and buses. If it is a priority for you, I would say split your 11 or 12 nights into your two priority areas, fly between them, and take some day trips from larger cities with good transportation links.
As brutal as this sounds, we will most likely avoid going in any museums and churches. We like to see from the outside, but our real interest is in the views and food - and interacting with the locals. Wine, and FOOD. Did I mention the food?
Rome is MUCH cheaper than Milan. I think it was 50% of the cost of Milan.
I still say, "Keep Sicily for another trip", but if you decide to go there, skip Palermo. It has truly wonderful churches and some museums. Enough top-flight churches and oratorios for several days (and I am not remotely religious). But it is a large, hectic city. No need to deal with it if you're not interested in churches and museums. You can get your Sicilan-market fix in Catania instead. Catania's still a big bustling city but not quite as frantic as Palermo. It has a nice historic area near the cathedral. You could day-trip to Taormina from Catania, or vice versa. My favorite Sicilian city was Siracusa, which has a very atmospheric, large historic district (Ortygia) and is also a good base for day-trips to the baroque inland towns of Ragusa, Noto, Modica, Scicli, etc.
But don't try to squeeze Sicily into this trip.
Edited to add: Food + interacting with people = cooking classes and market tours. I think you'll find lots of options. Some seem to be crazy pricey, so shop around if money is an issue.
Sicily is high on my husband's priority list. So skipping it is not an option. :-/ I thought I was doing well by eliminating France and narrowing it down to only 3 areas. Guess not.
Michelle
OK so if you don't care for churches, art, museums and architecture, skip Florence. It's a goldmine for all of those things - particularly Renaissance art - which is why we loved it. There are some very nice views and we ate well but food wasn't why we went there. As suggested above, you probably want to concentrate on cooking classes and food tours.
You do know that the Cinque Terre is going to be a madhouse in July?
Last time we were in Cinque Terre, it was not bad. But that was 4 years ago. Is it overrun with tourists now?
I do understand the "has his heart set on XXXX" situation. But you know, from the age of 10 or so I really, really wanted to go to Greece. I finally got to Europe for the first time in 1972 and was able to spend the whole summer there. Greece wasn't on the itinerary because it just didn't fit. Same with the 2-month trip I took in 1975. Eventually I was able to allocate multiple weeks to Greece and had time for a great trip there.
If "wait till next time" absolutely won't cut it with your husband, trim the mainland till it's painful and then trim some more. (How about an all-Sicily trip?) But be sure your husband understands that the high temp every day is likely to be between 85 and 100F, and all days may be over 90F. Finding air-conditioned hotels will not be a problem, but many small shops and cafes (and museums) are not air-conditioned, so it can be very difficult to escape the oppressive heat when you need a quick break.
Is it overrun with tourists now?
You might want to do some reading about that? Here are a couple of discussions we had earlier this year, and there's a lot more out there on the net. I'm not saying don't go but definitely know what to expect: these are not sleepy little Italian villages by any means during the day. There are some suggestions in the threads about how to lose the hordes of day-trippers until they leave in the evening.
https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/italy/re-thinking-cinque-terre
https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/trip-reports/crowds-in-cinque-terra
