Italy Honeymoon - Advice Requested

Switch your destinations around a bit. Rome, Cinque Terre, Florence then Venice.

The best option would be Venice, Florence, Cinque Terre, Rome.

If you choose the first...

Just make sure you don't have an Early morning flight out of Venice...Too hard to get to the

airport for an early morning flight.

Thanks, Gerri. I'm open to switching the itinerary up and flying into Venice and out of Rome. I assume it's easier to catch a train from La Spezia to Rome; is that why your proposed Venice-Florence-Cinque Terre-Rome itinerary would be better or are there other considerations? Appreciate the response.

Congratulations! My wife and I also spent our honeymoon in Itlay and we started in Venice. This was my wife's first trip to Italy and Venice is much easier to acclimate to than Rome! We spent 3 nights in Venice, 3 nights in Florence and 5 nights in Rome. This was in November 2012.

We just returned from a similar trip a couple of weeks ago. We spent 3 nights in Rome, 1 in the CT, 3 in Florence and 3 in Venice. We only stayed one night in the CT because we basically treated it as an "extended day trip". The train from Rome to the CT will take around 4 hours. It will take a couple of hours from CT to Florence and from Florence to Venice. If you split your 6 days between the CT and Florence, I would do 2 in the CT and 4 in Florence. From Florence, you can take day trips to Pisa and Siena or any number of other towns.

If you have not already purchased plane tickets, I would reverse the trip and start in Venice and end in Rome. The flights back to the US are easier. Many flights from Venice depart between 6-8 AM and getting to the airport would require a very early morning and probably a lot of stress.

Thanks for the reply, Stephen. I have not purchased airline tickets yet (most airlines haven't released schedules this far in advance), so will plan on switching to starting in Venice and ending in Rome. Have you done a day trip or overnight to Bologna? Eight years ago I passed through on the train to Vienna, and it looked like it would be a cool city to spend a day in. I imagine that could be possible with budgeting 4 days in Florence.

Joe,

First of all, congratulations! A few comments.....

I agree with the others that it would probably be better to start in Venice and end in Rome, especially at that time of year. Is there any possibility of starting your trip in mid-September (maybe about the 20th), as the weather may be better.

As the others have suggested, the most efficient travel route would be Venice > Florence > Cinque Terre > Rome. Travel from the C.T. to Rome is very easy, if using one of the direct trains from La Spezia Centrale. Have you decided which of the five towns you'd like to stay in?

All of the places you're visiting are well served by trains, so there's no need to complicate the situation with a rental car. Although you stated that you're both "expert train travellers", there are some potentially expensive "caveats" to be aware of when using trains and other public transit in Italy. You may need to "refresh" your information on that since it's been five years since your last visit (and your wife won't be aware of them on her first trip to Italy).

Depending on how many days you'll be in Florence and what your touring plans are there, you could easily take a day trip to Siena. Travel by Bus is the easiest option (about one hour each way) as passengers are dropped in the centre of town rather than at the bottom of the hill where the station is located.

Good luck with your planning!

I have not been to Bologna, but I think you can do a day trip or even spend a night there. It is roughly half-way between Florence and Venice so you could stop there and spend the night on your way to Florence.

As far as adding Bologna for one night because "it looked like it would be a cool city to spend a day in," I can give you a list of 30 cities and towns in Italy that would fit that description. Especially since it's your honeymoon, I would caution against trying to see too many places. You've already got four places for 12 days. I wouldn't add more.

If you do Venice at the start (which I recommend highly), do three nights in Venice. It's a great place to recover from jet lag.

Thank you all for the comments and suggestions, they are appreciated. One of the primary reasons I posted here was to get feedback on a potential itinerary and was concerned that I might be stuck in "solo traveler" mode and not "honeymoon" mode and would therefore plan too aggressive an itinerary.

We'll definitely fly into Venice now, and can adjust the amount of time there to account for jet lag and to "ease in" to a honeymoon state of mind. As far as Cinque Terre is concerned, my first thoughts were between Monterosso and Vernazza, and since neither of us has been there was thinking that 2 days might be appropriate?

Adjusted timeline based on all the feedback: 3 days in Venice, 3 in Florence, 2 in Cinque Terre, 4 in Rome. Would flipping the amount of time in Florence and CT be an option to consider, or does this timeline sound appropriate?

Joe,

Adjusted timeline based on all the feedback: 3 days in Venice, 3 in Florence, 2 in Cinque Terre, 4 in Rome. Would flipping the amount of time in Florence and CT be an option to consider, or does this timeline sound appropriate?

Your revised itinerary looks great!

I would not flip the time in Florence & CT.

Thinks of your trip in nights instead of days, so 4 nights = 3 full days, 3 nights =2 full days, and so on...

Keep in mind that each time you relocate from one city to the next, you will lose about half of that day ( waiting for trains, traveling, walking to hotel, checking-in/out of hotels, packing, unpacking, getting situated to new location, etc, etc...)

Enjoy your honeymoon trip!

I think Gerri's point is to go to Florence before Cinque Terre if you are going Venice to Rome to save criss-crossing and travel time.

As for whether starting in Venice or Rome, we did a 10 night trip, starting in Venice 3 nights, Florence 2, Rome 5. I liked starting in Venice. It is smaller and easier to see in a short time. It is a nice way to start especially when you are jet-lagged. Rome is so large with so much to see, it seems you never have enough time. If we had started in Rome, we probably would have never recovered from our jet lag because of the tendency to try and see everything and would be exhausted for the rest of the trip. Another thing is that Venice was the most expensive place to stay. Psychologically, it was nice to to spend less money as the trip progressed and in our case the hotels got nicer and cheaper as we went. But there is nothing wrong doing it your way. There is the local superstition about kissing your true love while riding a gondola under the Bridge of Sighs (at sunset) which would be a nice way to end your trip.

We also did a 7 day Med cruise after Rome, which included a stop in Livorno to visit Cinque Terre and Pisa. CT is nice (Vernazza was most picturesque), but for you it is a long way to go for these small towns which are all very similar. Some people do all 5 towns in a day. Those that really appreciate CT (Germans!) go there for the hiking. If you want my opinion, if I had your extra 2 days, i would have added them to Florence (use it to visit Pisa and Siena on short day trips). But I prefer to enjoy the time that i have in a place that I am at than spend the time travelling to the next place.

You might also look at staying in some romantic hilltop town in Tuscany and taking a day trip into Florence... seems a little more romantic unless you love big cities. Driving around Tuscany and have a few roadside picnics and visits to vineyards might appeal to the bride!

Oops. I was still typing my last post while everybody was already posting.

Your revised itinerary is good. I would still consider adding a day to each of Rome and Florence and bypassing CT. But I had the benefit of actually having been to CT and am now choosing things for others which I prefer in hindsight. With two nights and a full day+ In CT, you should easily visit all the towns in a relaxed way (less than 5 min train rides between each). I would definitely recommend you keep at least 3 nights for Florence. On our trip, 2 nights in Florence was too short.

PS. We loved each of our hotels; Hotel Olimpia, Hotel Albani Firenze and IQ Hotel Roma.

Thanks for the feedback. I have two questions following on the last two posts:
If we were to do time in Tuscany, what would we cut out of the trip? Assuming Cinque Terre entirely and/or time in Florence. We'd also have to rent a car (right?) and while I can drive a stick just fine, I'm 6'7" so most of the little cars aren't an option, especially to work the clutch. Does anyone have recent experience with car rentals in Tuscany?

What was it about your experience that would make you bypass Cinque Terre and add an extra day to Florence and Rome? I know my fiancee has never been to Rome and that one could easily get lost in that city for months, but just curious what the thinking is behind cutting out CT.

Thanks!

Once again, this is hindsight and personal preference on my part. CT is worth visiting, but so is everything else. If CT is a must-see on your list, your latest itinerary is certainly doable.

Rome has so many attactions. If we were not travelling with a group of friends who wanted to visit the other cities, i would have been inclined to just set up in Rome for the whole 10 days to see more and to relax more. With our 10 day itinerary, we still felt a bit rushed.

And we had some regret that we did not spend more time in Florence on our trip. Two nights only gives you one full day. My wife and i stayed in the city and did some of the major attractions, Duomo, Uffizzi, and Ponte Vecchio (squeezed in the Academia on evening of arrival, rush rush rush), but there were a lot of other things in Florence which we could not fit in. Our friends opted to do a guided bus day tour of Siena and San Gia...(?) and did not see much of Florence. We could do one or the other but not both. It is difficult to fit it all in when time is limited. Florence is in the heart of Tuscany and would have been a great base to explore if we had the time. I even prefer Florence over Venice, but I would not recommend cutting a day from your first stop. You really need that time to overcome jet lag and start your honeymoon in a relaxed enjoyable way.

Adding cities to an itinerary adds travel time and the converse is true. A 1-2 hour train ride really wipes out close to half a day and a 4-6 hour train ride can easily wipe out a full day when you factor in packing/unpacking, checking out/in hotel, getting to and from train stations and getting something to eat.

I am a big fan of driving and wished we had rented a vehicle for part of the trip just to try it in Italy. I looked into it and it is not too expensive to rent. Yes most cars are really small in Italy because cars are taxed every year based upon engine size. In the end, we opted to save time with our group of six and just took the highspeed trains. You can easily take a bus or train to Pisa/Lucca or Siena or San G. from Florence.

Keep in mind, there are all sorts of potential traps for dumb tourist drivers (driving in certain city zones, parking, speeding tickets and adapting to the local aggressive driving habits). We hired a private driver for shore excursions to CT and the Amalfi Coast and saw the narrow twisty mountain roads. It would have been fun in my Miata, but I am sure I would have scared the crap out of my wife who was already nervous even with our experienced driver.

If you do drive, be aware that Italy uses an average speed method of catching speeders. They have cameras everywhere taking photos of your plate and then calculating your average speed. They will ticket the car rental company and you will then be charged under your credit card. Big bucks from what I have read.

I envy you. Planning the trip is as much fun as going on the trip. Have fun.

I appreciate the thoughtful feedback, I'll definitely be incorporating it into the planning. I love planning trips but have spent the past 15 years flying solo and doing Europe Through the Back Door - it's a new challenge balancing the romance and relaxation of the honeymoon with seeing the sights on a brief, twelve day trip. A gondola ride at sunset in Venice and coffee at sunrise over St. Peter's are two items on my fiancee's bucket list that I'd love to check off together. I don't want to try to do it all (an impossible and exhausting task) or cram too much into the trip since we'll definitely return in the future. Again, thank you to everyone for all the feedback.

I couldn't help jumping in here. My husband and i are also planning our honeymoon in October. We are flying into Milan and out of Rome. Taking a train from Milan to CT for 3 nights, then train to Siena staying in a agriturismo outside of the city. Not sure if we should spend all 7 nights near Siena to do day trips to the countryside and Florence/Siena city centers, or split it and do a few nights in Montapulciano or somewhere nearby to explore? We turn the rental car into Orvieto on our last day and train to Rome for 3 nights in Rome before departing. I thought i had a good plan but according to the blog i started i'm getting bad feedback. Also now concerned about driving TO (and parking nearby) Siena and Florence since we will need a car to get to our farmhouse and to explore or delaying getting a car and pick it up after we do the cities?

Good Morning Everyone,
I was looking at train schedules yesterday evening after reading through the thread again, and was looking for some feedback. My fiancee and I are comfortable traveling via train and have done so extensively in Spain, France, Germany, and the Czech Republic, so familiar with good (and not so good) European train travel.

Venice to Florence on the Frecciargento is about a 2 hour trip offered with no connections, Florence to La Spezia on the Regionale Veloce is about a 2.25 hour trip with one connection, and La Spezia to Rome on the Frecciabianca is about 3.75 hours with no connections. My question: What timing do you recommend? My preference is a late afternoon train which would maximize our time in the preceding city but still allow us to arrive in the next city without getting in too late. The alternative is mid-morning, but I'm worried that will result in cutting out a couple hours in the middle of the day to travel. We are both one bag travelers and I know there are certain logistical considerations with getting to the train (packing, checking out, getting to the station) to consider, but just wanted some feedback.

Thanks!

Hey Joe--

We just did extensive train travel in March of this year from Paris to Switzerland to Milan, then to Florence and all the way down to Salerno in Campania over a 17-day period. And we found that the best time to travel for us was about an hour after we'd check out of the previous hotel or apartment, which was around a noon departure. The only time we left earlier is when we had to get from Lucerne to Florence in one day, so we left at 9AM, had a 90 minute layover at Milano Centrale station, then arrived Florence SMN at 5PM, in time to check into our apartment and then have a nice, leisurely dinner. It was our one long day of travel, but it was not stressful in the least, certainly better than flying. We booked about 90 days in advance, rode 2nd class & got deep discounts across the board.

Jay, thanks for the reply. For your train travel, did you have any days where you stored a bag at the station so that you could spend some time in the same city before leaving, or did you follow the one hour path you mentioned for all your travel? We're not really covering long distances/time so I can see where traveling mid-morning after checkout would be feasible, but just curious.

Janster, it would probably be best to post your query as a new question in the Italy forum so as not to confuse Joe's thread.
(Oops - it looks like you've done that now).

the honeymoon in Italy is my dream)))
I envy you)))

Joe,

"My question: What timing do you recommend? My preference is a late afternoon train which would maximize our time in the preceding city but still allow us to arrive in the next city without getting in too late. The alternative is mid-morning, but I'm worried that will result in cutting out a couple hours in the middle of the day to travel."

I normally like to arrange the timing so that I arrive in the next city about mid-afternoon (14-15:00. That allows breakfast in the hotel I'm leaving (which I'm usually paying for in the cost of the room so I like to get my money's worth). While most hotels will store luggage for guests that have checked-out if they want to do a bit more sightseeing, I find that when departure day arrives my focus is already on the new location and I want to get moving to maximize my time there. Hotel rooms have usually been serviced by mid-afternoon, so I can check-in straight away and get organized. That timing allows a bit of of a familiarization walkabout and then a nice dinner in the new location.

"Adjusted timeline based on all the feedback: 3 days in Venice, 3 in Florence, 2 in Cinque Terre, 4 in Rome."

That seems about perfect for the time you have available. However (and I know there will be some disagreement on this), my preference would be 2 days in Venice and 4 in Florence, in order to allow a day trip to Siena. IMO, you should keep 2 days in the Cinque Terre, as that's not only a great honeymoon location, but also provides a bit of "contrast" from your other stops which are all large cities. The C.T. is a fantastic place to practice Il Dolce Far Niente and just enjoy spending time together without rushing about touring and sightseeing. While there you can enjoy some fantastic meals (be sure to try Pesto in the area where it was invented). It would be nice to add at least one day there, but I realize you're working with a limited time frame.

Of the five towns in the Cinque Terre, each of us has a favourite and I prefer to stay in Monterosso. It's the largest of the five and therefore has the greatest number of hotels, restaurants and other amenities as well as the best beaches. Are you planning to stay in a hotel or a self-catering apartment? Most of the hotels provide a good breakfast. Depending on your budget, here are a few suggestions for hotels.....

• Hotel Villa Steno (in the old town of Monterosso - one of my favourite hotels in Europe)
• Hotel Pasquale (old town of Monterosso - a "sister" property to Villa Steno and also very comfortable)
• Hotel Porto Roca (old town of Monterosso - more upscale but they have a beautiful location and a nice pool overlooking the ocean)
• La Torretta (Manarola - a bit pricey but a favourite for honeymoons)

continued.....

Part II,

"My fiancee and I are comfortable traveling via train and have done so extensively in Spain, France, Germany, and the Czech Republic, so familiar with good (and not so good) European train travel."

A few thoughts......

• Venice to Florence - my suggestion would be travel via Freccia high speed as you mentioned. Those trains have compulsory seat reservations, and If you're willing to commit to a specific departure you can pre-purchase tickets at considerable savings (purchasing at www.capitainetrain.com is one of the easiest methods). Note that you can also use the competing Italo Treno on that route, as they use the same stations, and you can also purchase tickets for those at the website I mentioned. Your departure station will be Venezia S. Lucia and arrival station Firenze SM Novella.
• Florence to Cinque Terre - many of the trains on that route will be a combination of Regionale / InterCity / Freccia, so just pick a train based on departure time, number of changes, etc.
• Cinque Terre to Rome - the quickest solution is to use a Regionale to La Spezia Centrale and then connect with one of the direct trains to Roma Termini (there will be several of those each day, with a travel time of about 3H:45M). The train from La Spezia to Rome will either be a Freccia or InterCity, so again compulsory seat reservations required. Some of the direct departures are at 06:51, 08:17, 10:06 & 13:14.

As I mentioned earlier, there are some potentially expensive "caveats" regarding trains and other public transit in Italy. If you're interested, I can send my usual "boilerplate" on the subject via PM.

Ken, thank you so much for the very detailed replies and suggestions. Nothing has been booked as of yet (still more than a year out), but your advice regarding travel, especially the Italy-specific "caveats" are most appreciated. As far as where we are planning on staying, we've both traveled extensively using the Europe Through the Back Door approach, so were hoping to focus mainly on B&Bs, pensiones, and small hotels. Expansive (and expensive) hotel amenities aren't important features for us when it comes to travel. We may splurge in the CT, but otherwise would stick to the script in Venice, Florence, and Rome.

Joe,

You're very welcome! I'll send the "boilerplate" shortly via PM.

When choosing hotels, I always prefer places that offer breakfast as I like to fill up before going out touring for the day. The hotels I suggested provide a buffet breakfast. The types of foods vary a bit by hotel, but most of them are quite substantial and offer a variety of choices and Villa Steno has scrambled eggs, which I always enjoy. Many of the small rooms and apartments in other towns do not supply breakfast so you'd be on your own there, although I believe La Torretta also supplies breakfast. If you want another choice in Monterosso, you could also consider Villa Adriana (far end of the new town), as it's not expensive and also offers a nice breakfast.

I'd highly recommend packing along a copy of the Italy guidebook, either in hard-copy or E-book format. There's a lot of great information in the book that will help your trip to go smoothly, including recommendations for good hotels, B&B's, etc. in various price ranges and comfort levels. The 2016 edition should be released about September, although if you bought the 2015 version now, there probably won't be many changes. The E-book version is currently about $10 and it could potentially save you much more than that.

Joe

We took the Italo 9985 (12:55pm to 3:00 pm, hit 300kph) from Venice to Florence. In the morning, we were just wandering around our Venice hotel neighbourhood killing time until we had to go to the train station. When we got to Florence, we checked in and then hustled over to the Accademia without pre-booked tickets and managed to get in to see the David and then went for dinner.

In hindsight, I would have preferred to leave right after breakfast and arrived much earlier and have a fuller day at the next destination. But in our case, we had pre-bought our Italo tix a few months before at only €10 per person and i cannot recall if the early morning (or late afternoon/evening) times were available at this cheap price.

The Italo seats were mid (Smart?) class, each row is 2+1 with nice fabric seats (first class is 2+1 with leather? and coach which is 2+2 with slightly lower grade fabric). Note: you reserve your seat ahead of time. You can face forward, backward or each other in the middle of the car with tables in between. Our group of six opted for the latter. You can check the Italo site for pics. We took Trenitalia from Florence to Rome and both trains were comparable.

Are you considering just staying in La Spezia? From what I saw in our one day shore excursion from Livorno, La Spezia looked like a non-descript port town. If you go on to say Vernazza, you need to factor in another train ride of at least 20 minutes. With waits and transfers, you are probaly looking at 3-4 hours depending when you leave.

You should also see the other thread ("...Are We Crazy to Try?") in this Italy forum about making a pit stop in Pisa if you decide to go to CT. How can you go all the way to Italy and pass by Pisa without getting a picture of your wife holding up (or pushing over) the Leaning Tower?

Thanks for the helpful feedback. I'm definitely gravitating towards leaving mid-morning versus early evening. As far as the Cinque Terre is concerned, we wouldn't be staying in La Spezia, more likely in either Monterosso or Vernazza, but was using La Spezia in my initial train travel calculations.

Train tickets are an interesting topic and one I'm open for advice - buying ahead of time or at the station? I've read through many of the other threads and it appears that most US travelers are buying their tickets online first and asking questions second, and I'd like to avoid surprises/unpleasantness. Ken has already provided some great answers elsewhere in the forums, but just wanted to gauge advice/input from others if you have had particularly good (or bad) experiences with purchasing tickets.

I know that most of it depends on whether you have a set itinerary or not, or whether you want a little more flexibility with travel. I know some tickets are validated passes and are good for a whole day and not a specific train, whereas the ones requiring reservations should probably be booked at least a day or two in advance? All of my (solo) leisure travel in Europe I've booked a train ticket either day of or the day before and met with success, albeit probably paid a little more than had I booked ahead. Does anyone have advice regarding when to book/purchase train tickets? We'd travel second class in Italy without a problem in case that influences your input.

I am kind of all or nothing traveller. I have done trips where I just booked my air flight and just the first hotel and just winged it from there. But on our recent trip, we booked everything in advance, including trains, hotels and attractions. The latter really drove the other two for us. We bought into the whole mantra of avoid line ups and book your tickets in advance. We had to be in the Doges Palace, the Uffizzi Gallery, the Vatican Museum and the Sagrada Familia at a certain time and on a certain day. It just made sense to book our hotels and trains accordingly. The possible flexibility of changing a day here or an hour or two there was just not worth the hassle of booking things at the last minute. When you are trying to fit 4 cities in 12 days, you really need to organize and you don't want to waste valuable time dealing with something as mundane as buying a ticket. What would you prefer to do spend an hour having a drink with your wife on your last evening in Venice or running down to the train station to buy a ticket for the next day?

Ken could probably chime better than I could on this, but from what I remember (Trenitalia site is down--what a surprise!) there is not a ton of difference price-wise for 2nd class regional or even Fresciarossa whether it's done a week before or 90 days before. It's pretty reasonable no matter what. But, and this is key, an advance reservation booked online before your trip reserves you a seat, whichever class. Nice to know where you're going to sit & have that as a goal. September/October is still fairly busy & trains will fill. We traveled in early March, still reserved, got dirt-cheap deals, and the trains were about half-full. A pleasure.

And no, we never checked a bag at any train station only because there was never a need to do so. From Gare du Lyon/Paris we were leaving there, in Lucerne we went straight to the hotel across the street, in Florence we walked a block to our apartment, and in Salerno we were picked up by the B&B owners.

Thanks funpig, that's all very logical and appealing. I've done tourist attraction passes in major cities like Paris and Rome before, but never made reservations at key locations. Once we firm up travel dates/itinerary and book airfare, we'll look into scheduling time at major venues.

funpig,

" How can you go all the way to Italy and pass by Pisa without getting a picture of your wife holding up (or pushing over) the Leaning Tower?"

I've managed to resist doing that on many trips to italy, and don't feel I've missed anything. I'll probably get there eventually, but it's not high on my list of priorities.

Joe,

Some further clarification on pre-purchase of rail tickets.....

• Considerable savings are possible with advance purchase of tickets on the "fast" trains such as the Freccia or InterCity, either first or second class. These are offered for sale 120 days in advance. There's a quota on the discounted tickets, and once the cheapest Super Economy tickets are sold out, pricing moves up to the Economy level and once those are sold out to the Base fare level (which is the same price as buying on the day of travel). Seat reservations are compulsory on the "fast" trains and these are specific to train, date and departure time.
  • For example, on a sample trip from Roma Termini to Firenze SMN, second class Super Economy tickets are currently listed at €24 PP, Economy at €34 PP and Base at €43 PP. Therefore Super Economy tickets for this solution are discounted 44% and Economy discounted 21%, and a couple travelling on this particular train would save US$38 (at current exchange rates) with two S.E. tickets purchased in advance.
• Each class of ticket has certain restrictions and conditions. The Super Economy tickets are non-refundable and non-changeable, so it's important to choose carefully. The Economy tickets provide limited ability for change and Base tickets provide the most flexibility.
• REGIONALE tickets - while it is possible to advance purchase tickets on Regionale trains, this is not usually the best method as these come with restrictions. These are usually only listed for sale seven days in advance and there are NO discounts for advance purchase. The best method for obtaining tickets on Regionale trains is just to buy them locally at the stations, either from a Kiosk or staffed ticket office. I usually buy at least the day prior to travel, so I don't have to stop when I'm hauling luggage. DON'T forget to validate prior to boarding the train on the day of travel, or you'll risk hefty fines which are collected on the spot!

For complete information on rail travel in italy (and other countries), you may find it helpful to peruse the excellent Man In Seat 61 website.

Thanks again Ken for the insights. We'll likely book the fast trains near the 120 day window, especially once we nail down some dates. In the past I've bought tickets for the next destination on the day of arrival in the current city, so may stick with that plan on the Regionale portions so as to not backtrack to the train station during our stay.