This just came up on my news feed. It is really sad coupled with the fact the 35-year old officer had recently returned to work after his honeymoon. May he Rest In Peace and calling for strength to his widow. Awful.
https://www.apnews.com/74cad847c1834504836751d831ad2909
Edited Title - Respect to the fallen Carabineri
From the NY Times - a little more information with similar to the above AP.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/27/world/europe/italy-police-officer-murder-americans.html
drugs. Americans and drugs.
Yes Nigel. It is heartbreaking for all involved - Officer doing his job, still reeling from his honeymoon.
"Some Italian news outlets linked the murder to Romeās underground drug trade, and to bigger operations that finance other illicit trafficking."
Perhaps the problem is bigger than "Americans".
@girasole
thanks for this article. wow so so sad over a drug deal gone bad. totally devastating. read officer helped out people at train station, brought food to the hungry, very compassionate.
may the new bride/wife have strength to get thru this ordeal and the groom/husband/officer Rest In Peace. our hearts goes out to italy.
aloha
"Some Italian news outlets linked the murder to Romeās underground drug trade, and to bigger operations that finance other illicit trafficking." Perhaps the problem is bigger than "Americans"
Sure, but I don't take offense to Nigel pointing out what he did. They are American and one of them killed an Italian Police Officer in Rome - those are the facts.
thanks for this article. wow so so sad over a drug deal gone bad. totally devastating. read officer helped out people at train station, brought food to the hungry, very compassionate.
Yes, Princess. Extremely sad. When it came up in my news feed, I could not believe my eyes at the title.
American thuggery now moving overseas. A police officer that lived in my neighborhood was investigating car thefts in downtown Birmingham and was killed by one of the perpetrators. These people would just as soon kill you as look at you-and it's a common problem with all races in America.
Yes of course. Not meaning to devalue anyone or anything. Boston sees its big share of needless killings.
Because I love Rome, as many do, and seeing the news feed title, I was taken aback because I think that is not too common. I read a lot about gun shootings and knife attacks here; very sadly being the norm.
Ironically, they will not be treated as harshly by the Italian justice system as they would be for the same crime in the US. Here, murder of a federal law enforcement officer is a federal crime subject to the death penalty.
True, Italy does not have the death penalty. The "minimum" term for murder is 21 years (article 575 of their penal code; Dispositivo dell'art. 575 Codice penale) and the aggravated circumstance of killing of a police officer (article 576) is subject to life imprisonment.
https://www.normattiva.it/uri-res/N2Ls?urn:nir:stato:codice.penale:1930-10-19;1398
Art 575: Chiunque cagiona la morte di un uomo e' punito con la reclusione non inferiore ad anni ventuno.
Anyone who causes the death of a man is punished with imprisonment of no less than twenty-one years.
Art 576: Si applica *la pena dell'ergastolo** se il fatto preveduto dall'articolo precedente ĆØ commesso*
...life sentence....
5-bis. contro un ufficiale o agente di polizia giudiziaria, ovvero un ufficiale o agente di pubblica sicurezza, nellāatto o a causa dellāadempimento delle funzioni o del servizio.
...against a judicial police officer or agent ā¦.
The all story is strange, why didn't they wait for the backup car?
The surviving cop declared they have been attacked after they identified themselves as Carabinieri. One of the suspects speaks Italian, who would ever attack a cop in a foreign country?
Drug dealers sleeping at the Marriot?
There are no federal laws and no federal officers in Italy. The boy who actually stabbed the cop has no criminal records, if He will be able to prove he had no idea they were 2 cops... I'm afraid that After the two appeal trials He will be sentenced to 24 years and will spend 16 behind the bars. He would serve Less if he confessed And asked for a fast track trial without a Jury, but I doubt he'll find a Judge willing to accept.
The all story is strange, why didn't they wait for the backup car?
I don't think the person whose backpack was stolen told the police when he called that his backpack was stolen during the commission of a supposed drug deal gone bad. He told them his backpack had been stolen.
who would ever attack a cop in a foreign country?
The suspects are saying they did not know the officer was a policeman. [Edited: not that that validates such a crime!] They say they thought they were being "cheated" (relative to the drug deal) again.
According to online (Italian) reports, that is ā¦.
Wow, CW, that's some research about Articles of law. Interesting!
Yes CW, as you wrote - Seemingly it was mentioned about a backpack stolen.
Unless I missed something, wasn't the Carabinieri in uniform? I don't see where he was in plainclothes undercover?
I don't think the person whose backpack was stolen told the police when he called that his backpack was stolen during the commission of a supposed drug deal gone bad. He told them his backpack had been stolen.
It doesn't matter, the standard procedure says that plainclothes cops Can face similar situations only with a backup car. In crowded areas you need uniformed cops not too far away.
The suspects are saying they did not know the officer was a policeman
As I wrote above, according to the surviving officer they had clearly said they were cops and one of the 2 american teens speaks italian. Why attacking a cop?
Yes. There is probably more to the story.
What is also very sad is the locals and travelers who witnessed this near The Vatican.
I was horrified and deeply saddened this morning when I heard about this incident. My thoughts and prayers are with the family, friends and colleagues of the fallen officer.
Whether the two suspects knew they were dealing with police officers is not the issue. Stabbing anyone eight times is not acceptable at any time!
According to news reports, the two āsuspectsā have confessed so I imagine the trial and sentencing will move along very quickly.
Why are some teenagers these days behaving like this? Weāre having a similar problem with two teenagers here and I wish I could understand why this is happening.
None of it makes sense, from beginning to tragic end, that's for sure. And whatever their stories, it's a heartbreaking loss.
Whether the two suspects knew they were dealing with police officers is not the issue. Stabbing anyone eight times is not acceptable at any time! ..... Why are some teenagers these days behaving like this? Weāre having a similar problem with two teenagers here and I wish I could understand why this is happening.
Ken,
The blame list and influences are long -
We can start with, people like this do not value human life. And, of course, they wanted to escape as was reported - (paraphrasing) police found them ready to leave; found the clothes worn during the attack; found the bloody knife behind a panel...
Goodness, they had the mindset to do that after just killing. Unbelievable.
Thank goodness they were found!
There are no federal laws and no federal officers in Italy. The boy who actually stabbed the cop has no criminal records, if He will be able to prove he had no idea they were 2 cops... I'm afraid that After the two appeal trials He will be sentenced to 24 years and will spend 16 behind the bars
Dario, this is truly eerie. If it goes that way, the guy will be about 35 years of age - 19+16 - same age the Officer murdered. 0_0
https://www.apnews.com/74cad847c1834504836751d831ad2909 - a bit of an update
So they were in plainclothes. I may have missed that earlier. They still Identified themselves as police officers though.
Rudy Guede, Who raped and murdered Meredith Kercher, a British student, in the infamous āMurder of Perugiaā in 2007, was sentenced to 16 years in prison. He is still serving the sentence in a regime of semi-liberty (he works at a library during the day) and he recently attained his second university degree from the University of Rome, which he is allowed to attend.
Although art. 575 may mention 21 years, however there is a whole slew of attenuating circumstances that judges can apply to lower the sentence (in the case of Guede it was the young age, among others). Also, the Italian Justice System allows a so called abbreviated trial for those defendants who choose. Such abbreviated trial guarantees an automatic reduction of the sentence by one third, which in the case of life sentence is reduced to a maximum of 30 years.
He is still serving the sentence in a regime of semi-liberty (he works at a library during the day) and he recently attained his second university degree from the University of Rome, which he is allowed to attend
"Totally peeves me." It is so galling that criminals are allowed the freedoms of studying to get a degree - free. Meanwhile, the ones they murder do not have that chance.
Such abbreviated trial guarantees an automatic reduction of the sentence by one third
Both the prosecutor office and the Judge must agree to the abbreviated trial and It won't so easy in this case. The Media pressure will be almost unbearable.
If he truly was On xanax and really believed to be facing 2 drug dealers and not two cops, a life sentence would be a shame for a 19 years old first time offender.
I am glad that someone else posted this story, because I am so angry and sad about this murder I probably would have gotten thrown off this site. Let me just say that I hope these 2 poor little rich punks get the most severe punishment possible. They deserve death, but unfortunately that's not an option. And it sounds like the officer was a really good guy, what a shame...
Mill Valley is next door to me, iām there every day. Mill Valley is extremely wealthy, extremely upscale. If these two had done this in Mill Valley it would have been a shocking event here, all the more shocking that they did this in Rome. Murders donāt happen in MV, or most anywhere in Marin County (rare exceptions of course).
It has been all over the News in the SF Bay Area since yesterday. This event is horrific. My heart goes out to the Officer, his wife, his family and friends. Such a devastating loss for so many people.
Itās all the more shocking that these 2 teenagers, presumably privileged, from a basically crime-free wealthy area would go to Rome and do such an evil thing. I canāt help thinking thereās more to this story. Not that theyāre innocent, but maybe thereās more to it we donāt know. Could they possibly have not known they were cops and were in fear for their life?
I donāt understand how this could have happened.
The difference between this case and Amanda Knox is, Amanda Knox was innocent. These guys clearly appear to be guilty.
Caldbunch,
It is maddening to think about how the whole scene just got away from the two officers. Some things are not too clear; lots of questions. The criminals had the straight of mind to change their clothes, pack up, get their plane ticket or whatever and were ready to leave; not before hiding the knife in the ceiling panel.
Wow, Mill Valley is nice and it sounds like they are definitely a flight risk. They need to be prosecuted and jailed according to Italian law and no exception because they are American. Seems like they were drugged up already when they fought the police. I feel for their families and the family of the officer.
Such heartbreak. The family of this young officer who has lost him forever. The families of the alleged killers who must deal with trying to comprehend a situation that they never pictured could possibly happen.
I'm a little shocked by all the comments about whether they knew the man was a policeman or not. Really, is killing another person acceptable if you don't think they are police? There is nothing good, nothing that can be understood or made sense of in this situation.
Is carrying a knife a crime in Italy. Secondly, why are these kids walking around at 3am with a knife? Honestly, you can buy drugs a lot easier in the daytime. Please lock these two up. The SFGate article said they were 18&19, is that considered an adult in Italy?
Carol, no I don't think that's the way some people meant their comments.
People are brought up to respect authority. When a police officer identifies himself or herself and asks for ID or whatever, as a law-abiding citizen, we would oblige. People are out of control for many reasons, and I feel for cops on the road especially the lone drivers.
Life is important. This officer and his partner were doing their jobs trying to stop crime. It can be easy to speculate here, but the people that know the truth are in Rome.
It seems you don't know the all story, most of the above questions have already been answered on Italian papers: the 2 americans carried a knife because they were going to meet what they thought were two drug dealers.
Two plainclothes cops must intervene in such cases, they had been told there was a crime going on.
The other officer was fighting with the other suspect.
The Hotel's porter noticed something was wrong when he saw them entering their room, but he did not see blood on their clothes.
Italian cops do not shoot petty criminals in the streets. They don't take out a gun in such situations, either. Mostly because they don't need it, petty criminals know how not to spend too much time in prison.
It seems the 2 officers were attacked the moment they identified themselves as Carabinieri, I guess they simply couldn't imagine two teens being dangerous.
If you kill a cop on duty you risk a life sentence, that's the reason we were wondering if they knew it or not.
The suspect of murder has already declared he was on xanax and that he hasn't understood what was said in Italian. In short that he did not know they were 2 plainclothes cops, this is his best chance to avoid the risk of a life sentence from the beginning.
I don't know the side effects of xanax and alcohol, but if he is saying the truth I doubt the charges of Wilful murder would stand. This could be a second degree murder while committing a crime.
Thanks for clarifying that Dario. You are correct, I read a couple of different stories - none of which had some details you just listed - or we're not updated properly.
I'm a little shocked by all the comments about whether they knew the man was a policeman or not.
Carol, at least in my case, the comments about whether the suspects knew the man was a policeman is not referring to the gravity of their crime in moral terms, but rather is referring to the penalty they may face under Italian law, which defines a higher penalty for murder of a policeman (life imprisonment) than for other victims (minimum 21 years imprisonment.)
Dario, thank you for more info. You touched on what i was thinking, that maybe the killer did not understand Italian and didnāt understand it was a cop. He could have thought the cop was a ābad guyā and feared for his life. Still no excuse, just trying to understand.
Xanax makes you feel very, very relaxed, itās not a drug that amps you up and makes you aggressive.
It says in the article that at least one of them speaks Italian
The bottom line for me is this....I don't care what nationality you are or which country you are visiting...while there you should be on your best behavior, not your worst. If you are caught committing a crime, you should be subject to the laws of the offended country. As far as I am concerned, it is solely up to the Italian authorities on how to handle this case. My sympathy is with the fallen officer's family alone.
As mentioned, it has been reported that yes, one of them speaks Italian.
The other one who killed the officer is supposedly claiming he did not understand.
I have not read how the officer identified himself. Still, if he said polizia or carabinieri, the guy can make it out that he is the police. He was in Rome Italy, involved in drug dealing. You would think he was familiar with the word carabinieri.
āThe one who killed the officer claims he did not understand.ā
So he knifed him to death. I see.
It has been reported the officers identified themselves as carabinieri.
Despite the formal identification, they still attacked the two officers.
I don't know anything about Xanax. As someone else wrote, it makes a person very, very relaxed. It doesn't make any sense - that young guy had the strength to stab the officer eight times.
Lots of questions. I'm sure a lot more of the story will come out.
From my time in Italy I saw so many cops but am not sure that there was much law enforcement, of course I was just passing through.
There has been a police and military presence in and around Rome; especially at the Vatican of course, main attractions in the city center, Termini, and other sensitive areas.
I never saw any bad things happen. Just saw police cars and heard sirens going back and forth every so often. That could be for anything.
hey hey everyone
since this incident happened, itās all over the news everywhere. I live in the San Francisco Bay Area and thought āWTHā with news today.
one suspect, natale, has dual citizenship since father is Italian. travels every year to Italy to visit family. some students interviewed says when on drugs heās insane with so much anger and being sketchy, known as drug dealer at high school, has been in lots of trouble in Marin, thinks can do no wrong.
other suspect accused of stabbing, a great kid with no problems and nothing to do with the law. met at Santa Barbara college and invited to Rome for first time.
a picture with blindfold and hands handcuffed behind him, who took picture and leaked to public and these ākidsā are being framed by Rome police.
what a sad situation for all involved. itās like he said she said. families hoping to fly to Rome and can talk to their sons.
thanks to Roberto and Dario with all the information they have given us.
Aloha
Princess, thanks for the update.
Whoa. So the guy who stabbed the police officer has never been in trouble before? What in the world made him do that then? They already had kinife/knives so they were expecting some kind of a fight
This is so crazy.
hey hey girasole
yeah it absolutely crazy. long story short, Iāve been without internet/home phone service since July 9. I am not a happy camper, dealing with attās BS, no call no show 6 times for a tech to my house!! having another company install on Thursday. you really do not want to see my rath!! lots ask if Iām Italian, no Iām Portuguese and donāt p___ us off. Using my landlords WiFi. If you can look up ABC7 news in Bay Area and two stories about those āboysā. more craziness here, shooting at gilroy garlic festival, multiple people down. What the hell is wrong in this world
aloha
Iād take ABC7 News with an ounce of salt. theyāre known for being more interested in reporting dirt than facts.
The one that is allegedly a troublemaker isnāt the one accused of the killing, or do i have that wrong?
I donāt think we should rush to judgement, myself included. Itās very early days. Look at what they did to Amanda Knox, who was innocent.
hey hey
I understand what youāre saying Susan, I donāt believe all the news that is cracked up to be. I just put it out there, since we will have all kinds of stories about this. we will hear more about it and what really happened. Yes you are right about.
aloha
"I donāt think we should rush to judgement, myself included. Itās very early days. Look at what they did to Amanda Knox, who was innocent."
And of course, there are never miscarriages of justice in our own countries.
"The guy who stabbed the officer has never been in trouble before."
And pretty soon we will hear that he comes from a "really good family".
It's a common misconception that Amanda Knox was found innocent. The final Italian court only ruled that there was insufficient evidence to sustain the guilty verdict and cited international interference in the investigation. The judges later spoke out to refute the widely publicized interpretation that they had found her innocent and to emphasize the court's actual findings. Applying an American interpretation to an Italian court ruling can be like describing apples to explain oranges. Very confusing.
Being on drugs does not mitigate the severity of the crime. If what the students said is true about him being a drug dealer in the US, Italy would do the world a favor by locking him up for the rest of his life.
Interesting, thank you Frank
Hey hey back Princess Pupule :)
Side note - geesh no Internet for that long? That is not good of course. Over the years, the Internet has been our life line of sorts. If you don't have a landline, and power goes out, that stinks. Your cell does not work.
Besides flash lights in each room, I also have the "wind up" flash lights. They are a pretty good size and have a very good LED light. I tested them - they last a long time. They are good in any emergency. I keep one in my car too besides a little flashlight. I also have "Blackout Buddy" - sponsored by The Red Cross. Works really well. I charge them up and ready to go in storms.
New England sees its shares of storms of course. When electricity goes out, they are pretty good about getting the techs out to restore it. Same with the Internet.
Back to Officer Mario Rega. I keep shaking my head. They have the pictures of the guys who admitted to it online. They don't look that big - on the slim body side. News outlets report this and that.
And yes, I read about the California shooting at a Garlic Festival?! I just don't understand what posses people to kill another at random.
I know. I too thought the court had ruled innocent until friends in Italy explained it, and even then I had to research the ruling before I believed them.
To tell the truth the Cassation Court said that cops and prosecutors had done such a sh**ty job that finding Knox and Sollecito guilty beyond all reasonable doubt was impossible. By law the next step was to apply the "in dubio pro reo" principle and let them free. The Cassation Court judges the trials and the prosecutors, not the matter.
I knew the Italian courts did not rule Amanda Knox innocent. Once all the facts and in-depth reporting came out, it was clear to most people that she was. As Roberto posted upthread, Rudy Guede was found guilty and it is plausible that he actually was guilty.
My point in bringing up Amanda Knox is that there was a rush to judgement in that case, and there could be in this case as well. We donāt know at this point.
Well, if, as reported, the boys have confessed, then āa rush to judgementā has already been made.
News outlets - whom do you "believe?" One news channel had a reporter state Officer Rega was stabbed 11 times not 8.
With investigating, so many things.....
In addition to the confessions, the murder of the policeman is documented in a very clear video, there are eyewitnesses to the crime, and the knife that the killer took with him and clothes with the policeman's blood were found in the boys' hotel room. With that much evidence, I find it impossible to reach any conclusion other than that they're involved. In what crime, that's for the Italian courts to decide.
"Totally peeves me." It is so galling that criminals are allowed the freedoms of studying to get a degree - free. Meanwhile, the ones they murder do not have that chance.
I get that it is somewhat non-intuitive, however, the crime aside, if a person is going to walk the streets again, many countries-correctly in my view-are willing to acknowledge early that an engaged/educated convicted murderer is more desirable to society and the world than a disengaged/uneducated convicted murderer.
It's a tough case, and it sucks. However long they lock these two up for, there is societal benefit to education while incarcerated. The United States needs to admit this and work towards it.
Some convicts seem to be allowed to work or attend school, while others remain behind bars for their entire sentence. AFAIK, Amanda Knox was never allowed out for any reason. It's nice to hear that Rudy is using his time wisely to get an education. There is one other example that comes to mind..... despite the horrific crimes he committed and his "life" sentence, Erich Preibke was reportedly allowed out of his Rome apartment to work at his Lawyer's office several days a week.
I followed the Kercher case closely, and participated to the translation of the āmotivation of the sentenceā documents (over 400 pages each) plus other trial documents for various US media outlets. If you really know all the details, it is impossible to believe that Sollecito and Knox were guilty. The most logical conclusion is that Rudy Guede entered the apartment to burglarize it (he was a serial burglar who had burglarized at least 4 places before in similar fashion), but was caught by Kercher with his pants down (literally, since he has a diarrhea attack soon after entering the place) since she returned home earlier than expected. The sexual violence and murder that followed was a so called ācrime of opportunityā. The implication of Knox was due primarily to her immature strange behavior who caused investigators to suspect she knew something she was trying to hide. The fact she broke down during interrogation and falsely accused her boss Patrick Lumumba (probably hoping the investigators would let her go) contributed to the mess. In reality all objective evidence point to Rudy Vuede being the sole perpetrator of that crime.
Going back to this crime, just because the Italian authorities fouled up the Kercher case and wrongly accused two innocent people, doesnāt mean that all cases taking place in Italy will be fouled up and all Americans accused of crimes are victims of railroading. I donāt know the exact circumstances that led the American kids to beat and stab the officers, however there is video surveillance evidence that identifies the two running away and they found the military grade stab and their clothes full of the officerās blood hidden in their hotel room.
Maybe the two didnāt understand or did not believe the two were police officers when they identified themselves, however there is no doubt they stabbed them with a military weapon that it is illegal to carry in Italy. The intent of the two to harm the victims is clear. Maybe they intended to harm some drug dealers and not officers, and likely they did so under the influence, however, none of such damning evidence existed in the Kercher case against Amanda Knox or Sollecito, therefore equating the two cases is simply insane.
Unfortunately today we are mourning the death of a police officer because when Italian officers use lethal force to defend themselves (as it is common practice for American police) Italian police officers end up in jail accused of very serious crimes. Italian judges believe that police officers should use lethal force (firearms) only after being shot with firearms and arenāt even allowed to carry tasers in most cases. If the same incident had happened in Marin county the officer would be alive and the kids would be dead killed by dozens of bullets. This is the reality.
Italian police officers end up in jail accused of very serious crimes.
So, there are Italian cops in jail because they used force by the book? I'd really like to know their names.
Even the cops who beat To death two guys in their custody in two different cases are still free.
Funny fact: Some officers from all over Italy met under the windows of one of the mothers of the 2 victims and cried her son deserved to die. Not joking, a group of Italian men insulting a mother whose son has been killed while in custody. This group of gentlemen have never been fired or punished. Forget about a trial, They are still in service and can stop, arrest and question citizens any day. I've always wondered if the average Italian cop finds this behaviour disgusting or not.
Then there is a video of italian cops that cheer other cops who have been sentenced for beating Suspects in their custody. First trial, since there is no jail for cops waiting to appeal a sentence (unlike Knox and Sollecito who had to wait in prison) they could Happily enjoy Other cops cheering and clapping. Basically the video shows cops clapping against a legitimate verdict by a legitimate Judge in front of a camera without any worries. And they were right not to worry, sanctions? None.
The truth is that We have two carabinieri rapers in Florence, a Carabinieri unit in Sicily who made an innocent man stay 20 years in prison, another one that took bribes from the neapolitan Mafia. None of them has done a day in prison, yet.
Oh, let's not forget Serena Mollicone a 19 years old girl killed inside a Carabinieri station near Rome in 2001. Note that the girl hadn't been arrested, she was there to meet the son of one of the cops working there. One of the Carabinieri in service that night shot himself in 2008, but it took other 10 years to indict the remaining 3 who were in service with him. Meanwhile they tried to frame an innocent man... Guess who let him free? Those bad judges who don't want the the poor Carabinieri to shoot whenever they want, who else?
Let's remember the most ferocious band of robbers of Italian history who killed 20 Innocents in the 90s, they were all... Guess what? Cops. Among the victims there was one young officer who worked in the same District and had recognised them during a robbery. Shot in the head in the middle of the street like a dog by a man that worked 2 desks away from him.
Just like with Rudy Guede the system is letting them study in prison and get degrees if they want. They want, all Fascist law&order guys change their mind about rehabilitation after 3 days in prison.
Frankly I'm quite happy judges don't let Such "guardians" do what they want, but most of the times cops do what they want without paying. Don't play the fake news game when there is still people around that can reply with facts. The generalisation about judges seems rubbish out of Berlusconi's press office
That poor man has been killed because most of petty criminals that work Rome's squares are professionals who would never dream of bringing a bayonet and use it against a cop. He expected to face the usual cats but he stumbled upon a tiger. If Italian cops shoot as often as the US ones we would get petty criminals shooting back. Then there would be people asking for more powers to cops, less rights for criminals, better weapons etc. etc. The same old story that always ends in the same way: More crime in the streets and more violence.
Thank you both for the updates, explanations, and "eye openers." Interesting reads.
I didn't know about a lot of this.
There is good and bad in every profession as we know. Legal systems are flawed, and in some cases, corrupt.
The good ones who try to do right and good are overshadowed by the bad ones.
I like Al Pacino movies - the varied discussions on this thread brings to mind -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA0glbG6c-8 Warning - very strong language in the clip.
Synopsis - An ethical Baltimore defense lawyer disgusted with rampant legal corruption is asked to defend a judge he despises in a rape trial. But if he doesn't do it, the judge will have him disbarred.
Here you have an attorney who tried to follow the law. Ignorance, lack of follow through by some, overworked attys, ADA's under pressure to make deals, and corruption by many made the character of Al Pacino's job very difficult.
Roberto, donāt know who you were responding to, ānone of such damning evidence existed in the Kercher case against Amanda Knox or Sollecito, therefore equating the two cases is simply insane.ā
In my first post (last Saturday) that i wrote in response to a previous poster who brought up Amanda Knox, āThe difference between this case and Amanda Knox is, Amanda Knox was innocent. These guys clearly appear to be guilty.ā
I wish to ignore any discussion of 'who', 'why', or whatever else is in this discussion. I'm not saying there aren't points to be made. I walked by the wake for the officer last night. The line was extremely long and stayed long well into the evening. Later last night the huge collection of flowers outside the officer's precinct filled the air with floral perfume. There was, for me, another message driven into my heart and soul: why can't we find a way to stop killing? May the officer rest in peace, may his family take comfort in their friends and community. May the angels lead him into paradise, may the martyrs come to welcome him.
Thank you Robert, that was very nice!
And, thank you for letting us know about the flowers surrounding the somber scene.
I've managed to stay out of this discussion for 3 days now, but I have to say that I'm shocked! Not so much at the killing of a policeman in Rome but I'm shocked at many of the responses on this thread. The rush to judgement, based on a such a pitifully small amount of actual knowledge. The majority of what is reported is speculation, not absolute truth, and all of a sudden we are judge, jury, and executioner (figuratively speaking). Maybe it would be better if we waited until the 'facts' are adjudicated before making our own judgments.
Aside from that little rant, I feel nothing but sympathy for the family and friends of the officer who was killed and I hope justice is done whatever the outcome.
Thanks for changing the name of the thread.
It has been reported that one of these thugs beat up and seriously injured another student and therefore had to go to a different high school.
Thanks Nigel.
Susan I wasnāt referring to anyone in particular, certainly not your comment.
But in the comment section of virtually every newspaper regarding this case there are always snarky comments mentioning the Amanda Knox case. Many American commenters say that this is another case of railroading, like Amanda Knox. Commenters in Italy (I was there till two days ago) also mention Amanda Knox to say that the two students in this case will get away with murder just because they are Americans, like Amanda Knox did (most Italians who donāt know the Kercher case in detail, still think Knox and Sollecito were guilty, and were exonerated only because of the power exerted by Washington).
Yes, Knox and Sollecito were wrongly accused, and the Supreme Court of Cassation upheld their eventual acquittal. However I donāt see why that case has to resurface every time there are Americans involved in crimes committed in Italy. Each case is different and hopefully it will be properly handled regardless of the nationality of the suspects. I see no reason why a past error should be replicated simply based on the nationality of the individuals involved.
Roberto, i agree with you completely.
In the first few days of the reporting here in the SF Bay Area, news readers kept saying these 2 had no criminal record. My immediate thought was, that means nothing. They are 18 & 19, anything they did up to 18 would not be public record.
And yes, now we hear one of them (prior to turning 18) seriously beat up and injured another kid in school.
