I’ve been contacted by a “Cedar Business services” debt collection agency for a Florence ticket.

I gave instructions on what to in the thread below:

https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/italy/paying-a-fine-from-the-us

Don't pay those exorbitant amounts. Credit Collection business is an extortion racket bordering organized criminality. Unfortunately it is not a well regulated business in the US.

Traffic fines are no longer reported to the credit rating bureaus after a class lawsuit settlement however I suggest you still monitor your credit with a credit monitoring service, or simply check your credit yourself once in a while.

Thank you Roberto. I read some threads on Reddit saying that yeah, you may be in trouble but to check your credit.

So you think I’ll be okay?

Have you heard of anyone not paying and getting their credit dinged? It’s just mind boggling to me that it was first 100 euro, then magically grew to $1500. I just fear in a year they are going to want $10000 or something absurd and will never leave me alone

They can't get those foreign tickets enforced in US courts, but as long as 10% (or even less) of their 'victims' surrenders to their veiled intimidating threats and pays something, they still make a profit. That is what their business model is. I've not heard of people being reported to the Credit Bureaus for unpaid foreign traffic tickets, if it happens to you or someone else in this forum, I'd like to know.
They cannot bother you again if you send them a 'cease and desist' letter.

https://www.americanbanker.com/payments/news/credit-bureaus-order-cities-to-stop-reporting-unpaid-tickets
https://www.thenewspaper.com/news/49/4987.asp

Is it a phishing scam?

Thank you Roberto. You gave my some piece of mind

Interesting. I guess my view is: good for them for collecting on debts instead of just writing it off. Although the amount is exorbitant. We’ve received one of those speeding tickets. But we paid it. I don’t understand why you would ignore it and expect it to just go away.

roberto, have you heard of a European country causing issues at the border and not allowing US citizens to enter or leave their country without paying the fine? There is a guy on reddit who stated the netherlands will apparently cause issues for you at the border, please see this thread

https://www.reddit.com/r/ItalyTravel/comments/1f3elpe/returning_to_italy_after_just_receiving_a_600/

Nobody will know at the border about your unpaid ticket. They have bigger fish to fry and that information doesn't go to the Polizia di Frontiera (Border Police). If you were an Italian they would simply forward your information to the Agenzia delle Entrate (Italian Internal Revenue Agency) and it will go to your file based on your Codice Fiscale. I'm in the Agency's database since I am an Italian taxpayer for other reasons, so in my case the authorities might take that route, but in your case, with foreigners they simply assign the debt to an Italian Debt Collection company part of an international debt collection group (the City of Florence uses Nivi company, a collection agency), which includes also several US collection agencies. Now they try to collect, but they are very unlikely to even try to take you to court in the US. However the collection agency which contacted you will keep trying to collect by letters and by phone calls. Once you send the "cease and desist" letter they will stop contacting you and at that point they can only contact you to notify of upcoming legal action, however since they cannot threaten to take legal action against you if they do not intend to actually do so or are not legally able to do so, as it would be a violation of Sect. 807 of the FDCPA, they will simply disappear and pursue another victim. Read the Act so you know your rights. I posted it below.

https://www.ftc.gov/legal-library/browse/rules/fair-debt-collection-practices-act-text

A similar experience was posted on a reddit travel page tonight, including the US based collection agency https://www.reddit.com/r/travel/s/CUyNo3aKI4

Also from 4 years ago. Person had never been to Italy. https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/s/1YC6VRuiDI

Google "Cedar Business services phishing"

Cedar Financial is a well known company based in Calabasas. I can't guarantee that your letter is not a phishing scam by someone claiming to be Cedar Financial, but the company is a real collection agency in California, which also specializes in international debt collection. Nevertheless, since your debt arises from a traffic ticket, and not a contracted agreement, given the circumstances, your debt cannot be easily pursued in an American court. In the hospital business we use such services to collect health care debt from foreign nationals, but it's never for just a few hundreds dollars, but tens of thousands, and in that case it is a contractual agreement that you sign when you are admitted to a hospital. So in this case, the Italian entity assigned the debt to an Italian agency part of the international network, which tries to collect. The collection agency marks up the amount by 5 or 10 times since the collection rate is probably just a few cents on the dollar. Basically they probably collect from only a debtor out of 10 (if that) and only for a smaller amount. Still it is pure profit, since they actually get assigned the debt for $0. So assuming the fine is 100€ ($110), they charge the person $1500. Maybe through a payment plan they get someone to pay $500 for that ticket. They then give the City of Florence 33% of the 100€ ticket (33€ or $35). The collection business makes the difference ($500-$35=$465) as profit. For the ones who don't pay, they usually send automatically issued 30day/60day/90day letter and an equal number of prank calls. If they feel they can't collect from someone they stop wasting time with them. That's how the business works. Those very few who pay, pay for the rest who don't (plus the profit for the collection agency). If you send a "cease and desist" letter right away, you get them off your back very quickly and they simply move to the next victim. Some agencies like Cedar (called early out collectors or primary collection agencies) might sell that debt to a secondary collection agency for pennies to the dollar. That one will try also to collect from you. You do the same 'cease and desist' letter and get them off your back. Credit collection business (especially secondary and tertiary and beyond collection) is a legalized "shake down" business, often run by not so recommendable people. I wish the business was regulated better and more strictly.

Roberto, did I make a mistake by calling the collection agent? Did I “start the clock again” so the speak?

The statute of limitations for traffic tickets in Italy is 5 years from the last communication. They don’t even know when the collection agency will exhaust their collection efforts. All you need to do now is write the Cease and Desist letter and get the collection agency off your back. Then monitor your credit regularly just in case. Nobody will stop you at the border since they don’t know you have an unpaid ticket in Florence.

Speed Camera tickets in Italy have nothing to do with safety, otherwise they would be placed at intersections where most fatal accidents occur in cities. Instead they put them on divided freeways or beltways, or expressways, like at the Indiano Viaduct, Varlungo viaduct at Firenze sud exit, Viale Etruria, after they lowered the speed at very low levels for the type of road in order to maximize the city revenue from tickets. It’s all about money my friend. And since most violations are committed by people who do not reside there since they don’t know where the cameras are located, the hit people who don’t vote in that municipality. So it’s a tax on non residents, just like the tourist tax you have to pay at the hotel, and which is now 10€ per person per night at Florence hotels with more stars (the highest in Italy). Politicians love to tax people who can’t vote them out of office.

Thanks Roberto, using your letter format, can I leave the amount blank? Because the amount they sent to me is actually less than the amount o owed them when I called them (letter said 600 euro over the phone 1500)…I really don’t want to call them again and ask the exact amount because I want to limit my contact with them

You can use any format, and if you google "credit collection cease and desist letter template" you can probably find plenty of templates online often in websites of some law firm. You don't need to state the amount. The amounts the credit collectors tell you is just an amount they pulled out of you know where. They simply try to extort as much money they can from their victims. Since they have no chance to have the fine enforced in court and recoup the money, it is really an attempt to shake you down for as much as they can. It's legalized extortion in a shady business, no more no less, as you can surmise from the excellent piece aired on NPR a few years ago.

https://www.npr.org/2014/10/09/354846672/bad-paper-explores-the-underworld-of-debt-collection

Appreciate the work you do Roberto. God speed

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