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History Buff

Coming to Italy in Mid-late October. Very interested in anything WWII - will be covering Venice, Florence, Lake Como, Cinque Terre, Assisi, and Rome - trying to find anything related to WWII - and so far I have found the Florence American Cemetery and the bunker in Monterosso, Cinque Terre. Any other suggestions?? Grazie!

Posted by
11316 posts

The book "Rome the Second Time" (available on Amazon) some itineraries related to WWII. See also the website of the same name.

Posted by
11316 posts

Assisi has connections too, particularly the Catholic priest who saved many many Jews. I don't have a ready reference but surely in exploring a good guidebook or website to Assisi you can find such info.

Posted by
906 posts

If in Pisa see Il Camposanto, destroyed in WWII. The cemetery was completely rebuilt and there is a nice section displaying all that went into the rebuild after the war, piece by piece. Amazing. Reference the book, Saving Italy, http://www.monumentsmen.com/books-movies/saving-italy

Also Ponte Santa Trinita Florence, destroyed in WWII and rebuilt piece by piece taken from the Arno River after the war. There is an interesting read here http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/8/3/bombing-the-bridgesofflorence.html

Posted by
500 posts

WWII was fought in Italy in a somewhat thoroughly manner - no big battlegrounds but often road by road, home by home. So memories are quite scattered. Just to tell the two first coming in my mind, in my parish church in Florence they still keep a stone from Ponte alla Carraia. When the bridge was exploded by retiring Germans, the stone landed on the roof of the church (that was half a mile away). The baptismal font was built, after the war, in memory of a completely innocent student living by the church that was executed by fascists as a retaliation to a bomb thrown by partisans. And so on.

In Florence, you may note that building on both sides of Ponte Vecchio are new: all the bridges were bombed; at the last moment, the German general decided that Ponte Vecchio was too historic and saved it - but destroyed accesses on both sides.

As for Lake Como you may drop by Dongo and Giulino di Mezzegra - while Mussolini and his mistress were trying to escape to nearby Switzerland, they were arrested in Dongo by a partisan group and summarily executed, as well as all the people accompanying them, in a road of Giulino. They died two days before Hitler's suicide; their corpses where hung in Milan, at a petrol station in the middle of Piazzale Loreto.

Posted by
3812 posts

They were not "summarily executed". Except the mistress, they had been all sentenced to death by the legitimate Italian Government.
Back to the issue of tourism, isn't there a museum of the landing at Anzio?

Posted by
32206 posts

trust,

There are WW-II historic sites all over Italy, but of course how many you'll have time to visit is the question. A few that you could consider.....

  • Cinque Terre - Have a look at this website for a description of Operation Ginny I & II, which took place in that area. There are a few memorials in the area but other than that not a lot to see.
  • Rome - One of the most dreadful events that took place in Rome during WW-II is described in THIS website. The story about how one of the perpetrators was brought to justice by American journalist Sam Donaldson can be seen in THIS video if you're interested (it's about 45 minutes in length). The Memorial is easily accessed by public transportation, but I'd have to check my notes on which Bus to use. After getting off the Bus, you'll need to walk downhill around the corner and the memorial is only a short walk (on the right side when facing downhill).

As someone else suggested, Anzio would be another good possibility. If you ever get to Sicily, the Museo dello Sbarco in Catania is VERY well done. There are also lots of historic sites on the east coast around Ortona, including the small town of Tavullia, where one of our local Regiments served.

Posted by
3812 posts

Quirite I'm sorry that you don't know your own country's history, but the partisans were soldiers of the National Liberation Commitee better known as the CLN.

The mutual recognition between the King and the CLN became law in 1944 with the Decree by the leutenant of the Realm number 144 (note 1944, northern Italy was still under the nazi occupation). The Decree was signed by Umberto who was the legitimate Italian King.

Hence the CLN acted on behalf of the the king and the partisans were its soldiers. In fact, after the allied liberation of Rome (thank you guys!), the first president of the CNL, Ivanoe Bonomi, automatically became prime minister.
The decree with the death sentence issued by the CLN on the 25th of April 45 was fully legitimate and issued according to law.

As the Supreme MILITARY Italian court stated in 1954 in an famous ruling: even if the partisans and the CLN in northern Italy couldn't establish a separate administration those who joined the Fascist puppet state committed an act of rebellion against the legitimate Italian Government. Guess which one was the legitimate government in occupied Italy? Gotcha, the CLN, the partisans.
It's the law that legitimate governments, not the force of Nazi weapons.

Don't know how old are you, but I really wonder what your history teacher was paid for!

Posted by
11613 posts

In the cemetery in Pisa is the grave of one of the monuments men and his Italian counterpart.

The Fosse Ardeatine that Ken referenced is very moving. Also in Roma at the Portico d'Ottavia is the plaque commemorating the deportation of the ajews from Roma; it's near the Great Synagogue which has a short film in the Museum.

Mussolini was "rescued" by Hitler from the mountains near L'Aquila, before he re-entered Italy and set up a government of sorts in Salo on Lago di Garda. Pier Paolo Pasolini made a very critical film by the same name.

Quattro Giornate di Napoli is the story of the street kids and partisans of Napoli kicking the German army out of town before the Allies got there.

Posted by
3812 posts

Quirite, that "minutiae", the fact that we had a legitimate government with a large consensus and the ability to execute its decisions, is the reason we were allowed to freely choose between Monarchy and Republic even if the Allies strongly supported the king, and it's the reason they let us freely write our own Constitution even if many Italians had voted for the Communist Party at the Constituent Assembly elections.

Posted by
500 posts

Mussolini was summarily executed, no doubt about this. On April 25th, 1945, CLN issued a decree making provision of death penalty or life imprisonment for members of fascist government. He was apprehended on April 27th, but he was never tried. Local partisans immediately referred to CLN chiefs in Milan that ordered him immediately executed. He was shot in the afternoon of April 28th in Giulino di Mezzegra (if the original poster wants to visit the spot, it is via XXIV Maggio, in front of the entrance of a villa, marked with a cross on a wall). We are not discussing if the execution was legitimate or the right thing to do (probably, as Mussolini was responsible of going to war without a real necessity, and the war inflicted a lot of suffering and damage to Italian people). But Mussolini was not granted a formal trial like the one in Nuremberg. It was very much a Ceausescu moment.

Posted by
3812 posts

The Allies were for the King, half of the Government parties were for the King.

The Carabinieri and the Army were strong supporters of the king.

Even 30% of the partisans were monarchists.

Almost all the judges who had to check the regularity of the counting had been appointed by the king. The President of the Cassation Court who signed the official report and proclaimed that the Republic had regularly won was a staunch monarchist.

All bureaucrats in the ministries who organized the vote were in strong favor of the monarchy.

Above all, the Vatican was for the monarchy, and you know what this meant in 1946 Italy.

I really guess who had the strength to falsify the referendum, the aliens?

You're repeating what serious historians call the first Italian conspiracy theory. A theory spread with the purpose of weakening the outset of our newborn Republic. And please don't tell me the story about the numbers "that changed in the middle of the night". The first results arrived from those areas closer to Rome (like Naples) were the majority had voted for the King. Once the votes from the populous North started to arrive, of course everything changed.

asps2: it wasn't a provision, the Decree was quite clear: "they will be punished with death". The decision was within the powers of the CLN.

ps I am afraid that our guests are bored to death. Sorry for the OT, but you know... three Italians in a room set up 3 parties.

Posted by
635 posts

Loyola University published a short (48-page), very interesting and readable paper, intended for its students studying in Rome, summarizing significant WW2 events in and around Rome. Download it here.

Posted by
186 posts

You might enjoy reading "The Officers Camp" by Giampiero Carocci (translated to English by George Hochfield). While it is described on the book jacket as being a "novel" (Carocci was a historian), I have it on good authority that it is actually a memoir (Carocci is from Florence and was imprisoned by the Germans in WW II). The story centers on a young officer from Florence who ends up captured by the advancing German army in 1943 and ends up in a work camp for two years. (The Italians, defeated, had withdrawn from their alliance with Germany in September 1943 and were then occupied by the German army.) While the prisoners leave Italy by about 4 chapters in, you may get some perspective about the "ordinary" Italians caught up in the war. Some may enjoy the way the Italian prisoners (starving) get into intense discussions about food and swap complicated "recipes" as they pass their time.

Posted by
151 posts

Thanks for all the helpful information but especially for the spirited and intelligent debate - love this forum!

Posted by
32206 posts

This Thread has been an interesting history lesson. Thanks!

Posted by
96 posts

In the Alps, above Milan, there is a gunnery emplacement (?) built into the mountain, guarding the road from Switzerland.

One thing I love about Italy is that in every small town I have visited there is a memorial to the fallen soldiers. A beautiful sculpture usually.

Also, a small town in Tuscany, Civitella, has a nice bit of history. The Germans thought a spy was there and flattened the little town. A memorial is there to honor the British General (?) who helped put out the fire in the church. It is a sweet llittle town with an old,disintegrating castle which was built on older ruins. We had lunch there and spent half a day, just wandering, looking and reading memorials. It is not too far from Montevarchi, which is south of Florence.

Posted by
500 posts

The Loyola University paper is excellent and probably answers exactly the question from the original poster.

As I already wrote, WWII was very throughly fought in Italy, and has not left nice memories. Just to make an example, take my mother-in-law. Her younger brother was killed by Germans in Cephalonia, Greece (an history research institute is considering publishing his last letters before the massacre). Her older brother was sunk by Americans somewhere at sea. Her husband was wounded in El Alamein. A whole history book in a single family.

Posted by
2252 posts

I have thoroughly enjoyed learning something about Italian WWII history through this thread. I appreciate all the respectful exchanging of ideas. I, too, found the Museo dello Sbarco in Catania, Sicily riveting, moving and superbly done. Thank you to all who have contributed to this post and to my education.

Posted by
20089 posts

I don't think there are any monuments, but the Riva Ridge Battle took place in the mountains about 25 miles northwest of Florence. You'd need a car to get there, around the village of Lizzano in Belvedere. The US 10th Mountain Division attacked the Germans straight up the high mountain ridge to the northwest.
Thus giving name to a ski run at Vail (founded by ex-10th Mt. members) and a race horse that won the Kentucky Derby.

Posted by
7737 posts

One place where you'll find very little about WW2 is ironically the Museum of the Military, inside the Vittoriano Monument/Typewriter/Wedding Cake. And absolutely nothing about Mussolini's invasion of Ethiopia. The museum does span that time period, but WW2 is glossed over without reference to which side the military was fighting on, and Ethiopia does not merit even a mention.

That's also where you will find the Museum of Italian Unification and the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, which I found quite moving.

Posted by
91 posts

St Anna. It is located in the hills above Pisa. German soldiers massacred the whole town of women and children upon retreat back to Germany. There is a great book by James McBride and a so-so movie directed by Spike Lee about the massacre and the black American Soldiers that re-took the town. We visited 3 years ago and the church and a museum are available for visits.

Posted by
8443 posts

Monte Cassino. One of the most important events of the war. Surprised it wasn't mentioned already.