Help with Paris/Venice/CT/Florence/Rome itinerary

Pam, Could you clarify one point - does your time frame of 18-days include your two travel days? Assuming you have 16 days available for touring, that will only allow about two and half days in each spot, with no allowance for travel times (which in some cases will be longer). IMO, it's going to be difficult to realistically fit all of those places into the time you have available. You may have to consider skipping at least one location (and perhaps more). Since you've never been to Italy, you may want to focus on that for this trip. Another point to consider is that you'll be travelling in peak travel season, so it's going to be hot and crowded. Pre-booking accommodations would be a really good idea, and since time is short you'll need to start on that soon! I'm not sure that using a Railpass from France to Italy will be the most cost effective solution, or that a night train is the best option. Hopefully one of the other members of the group will have a few thoughts on that. Regarding "not to miss" items, it's very difficult to make suggestions on that without having some idea on the interests of your group. You might check your local Library to see if you can find Guidebooks for the areas you'll be visiting. There are a few potentially expensive "caveats" to be aware of when travelling by train in Italy. If you need further information, post another note. If you have time available, you might find it very helpful to meet with the Denver RS group. If my calculations are correct, their next meeting should be on June 16 at one of the Panera Bread locations in Denver. The expert group there will be able to help you get the details sorted very quickly. Good luck with your planning!

Sorry meant to credit Kelly with thanks for catacombs tip. But thanks to everyone else for great info too! I am honing details now, and just researched the Paris - Venice night train and appears Dianne is correct. There is one that leaves at 7:45pm and arrives 9am or so next day. I will repost later once I have some more details secured to see if anyone has more feedback as to if my plan is too optimistic and what may need to be cut.

For the cities that I have been to, I recommend this amount of nights in those cities: Paris: 4-5 nights Venice: At least 3 nights Florence: 3 nights Rome: 4-5 nights
This alone takes up a considerable amount of time in the time of travel you have. As for must sees, well, that is up to you, as everyone has different likes and dislikes. But definately take ur boys to the catacombs of Paris.

Ken, thank you! Short response now; I'm on iPhone. We have 17 days for travel (excluding travel dates of Jul 21 and Aug 8). We'd like to maximize time in Paris due to free lodging (rest of my family has never been). While in Switzerland, we enjoyed natural beauty, lakes, castles and historical buildings. But kids enjoyed the interesting look/age of buildings more than actual history. While in France/Italy, we can minimize art viewing, no need for fancy fashion/shopping or exciting nightlife. We'd rather do an easy hike and enjoy a beautiful view. I will definitely find the Jun 16 RS meeting in Denver. Given that, would you reduce time in Venice or Florence in order to see Cinque Terre? Thanks for catacombs tip - we will be sure to do that!

Paris - Versaille is a must Can you really go to Paris and not go to the Louvre of Orsay? The trick here is know exactly what you want to see in the Louvre (ie. Mona Lisa) and don't try to see everything. Effiel Tower Notre Dame Marais Neighorood Montmarte Area Boat Ride on the Siene Napolean's tomb Latin Quarter cafes cafes & cafes Cinque Terre Visit all 5 towns, the train makes it easy. Stop and relax on the beach a bit in Monterossa. Hike between towns. See which trials are open at that time Rome Vatican -St Peters & Vatican museum Colleseum Forum Borghese park and gallery Spanish steps Trevi Fountain Pantheon Gelato Dinners at as many Piazzas as possible Pizza Florence Duomo Area Sorry more art museums Academia and Uffizi Markets Piazza Michaelangelo Church of Santa Croce Ponte Vechio Vencie St Marks Square and sites around it (see RS book Church, Doges Palace, square) Rides on the Canal Frari church Rialto Bridge area Burano Murano
Walk the Dosodoro area and just get 'lost' in the area and enjoy you really need to say how much time you are spending in each area.

About trains. I would skip the rail pass altogether. The night train is not covered by Eurail Pass. I don't think there are any night trains from Paris past Milan right now. No reason you couldn't transfer in Milan to Venice first thing that morning. Alternatively check the air fair from Paris to Venice. It's probably competative, though to sure you need to figure out how much it will cost to the Paris airport and from the Venice airport. Within Italy, I'd buy point to point tickets in advance (the sooner the better). You'll have a lot of money. You'd have to pay a reservation fee and book point to point anyway for the longer legs of your trip. Price the longer legs in any case before buying the Italy Passes. Remember that you will still have to pay reservation fees even with the passes. The trains will be cheaper the sooner you book them. As to how much time to spend where I'd want a full day (two nights) in the Cinque Terre and at least three full days each in Paris and Rome. I wouldn't stay less than two full days each in Venice and Florence. How you divide it from there is a matter of time, interest and budget. I would book the hotels in advance as soon as you have the trains nailed down.

There definitely ARE night trains from Paris to Venice. Direct route, no changes. We took it last month. Got on the train in the evening, departed about 7:00pm and arrived in Venice about 9:00 am the next morning. Breakfast (a simple continental breakfast) was included in the price of the ticket (which we got in advance from Rail Europe). We took a picnic dinner and a bottle of wine.
I thoroughly enjoyed the train ride and slept like a baby. We woke up refreshed and had nearly a full day of sightseeing (in addition to the days we had already planned).

OK, plan starting to gel: Paris - 6 days/6 nights (taking advantage of free accomodations!) Fly from Paris to Venice on day 7 via EasyJet; much cheaper than night train. Arrives early afternoon in Venice. Venice - 1.5 days/2 nights Cinque Terre - 2.5 days/3 nights Florence - 2.5 days/3 nights
Rome - 2.5 days/3 nights I'm allowing 1/2 day travel between Italian cities. Do not buy rail passes but rather purchase direct Italy train routes needed now. Thoughts?

While the train does cost more than flying Easyjet (a 6 person couchette was $145 pp or about 116 euros vs 109 euros - the cheapest Easyjet fare I found) So the train was about 5 euros more than the flight, but, there was no hotel expense. Have you added the cost of a night's stay in the hotel to the price of the Easy jet? The train arrives right at St Lucia station on the island. If you fly, you still have to get to the island from the airport. The cheapest way is by public bus, but that's a hassle with luggage. The easiest is water taxi, but that is expensive (80 to 105 euros).

Dianne - good point. I hadn't done the complete cost analysis yet, but was disappointed there were no more "saver" or "go" rates available for a 6 person couchette from Paris to Venice on a few days I searched, so price kept climbing. I was also curious about train security - i.e. if I have a family of 5 including a small child, will a complete stranger make up the 6th person in our sleeping cabin? I would like to best ensure all (including stranger!) get a good night sleep, but with 3 children that can be unlikely. Also, are our valuables safe?

The compartment locks from the inside. It should be as safe as any hotel room. Also, each var has an attendant. They quickly figure out who belongs in that car and who doesn't. You could ask RailEurope about the possibility of a 6th person being booked in your couchette, but I think it is highly unlikely.

As far as the price goes, you are looking at the high season prices. They are unlikely to get any cheaper. If you do go Easyjet, be sure to find out how much it will cost to check your bags, get to the airport, get from the airport, etc. Also, do be aware that there are no assigned seats. You stand in line to board. You have the option of paying extra to board ahead of the regular line. So your family probably will not be seated together.

Dianne - thanks for the great tips re: hassle of getting to/from airports to cities (and associated cab costs). I just searched on Trenitalia site and found a Thello night train, 6 person couchette, for 500 Euro (approx $625?). Airfare with baggage but no seating assignment was at about $600, without considering cabs, and additional hotel night. I think night train is again in the lead....

I would add another night to Venice and Rome and then I will say you have a great trip planned.

I would also add a night to Venice & possibly Rome and I would take away one night from CT and maybe one from Florence to achieve that. (I think you said not too many art museums, so one less day in Florence might be okay)