Help with Italy travel plan

Everyone will do it slightly differently, but I think your basic outline is sound. However, I'd definitely subtract a day from Milan and add it to Venice, unless you have unusual interests. While I like Milan, it's not what most visitors are seeking when they go to Italy. In addition, its "must see" sights can be seen efficiently in a day (do book NOW if you want to see The Last Supper, and it may still be too late).

The other big question mark I see is splitting time between Florence and Siena. Some will like this, and others will say to spend all four nights in one place and see the other as daytrips. Your call.

And a third point (here's where personal tastes come in) is that I'd definitely want 1-2 more days in Rome, particularly since the day of arrival is often a jet-lagged haze.

What you have outlined above is certainly practical. How you distribute the time depends on the interests of your family. I would shift the allotted time a little bit, but that's an individual judgment call. Here are my thoughts.

Assuming you're arriving on Day 1, you may accomplish less than you anticipate, depending on where you're flying from. Consequently, I would add another day to Rome, given the variety of touring opportunities in the city.

Florence and Siena are easy day trips from one another, so I would suggest staying in one, and seeing the other as a day trip. It's about an hour by bus. Which one you choose depends on your family's interests. Unless you have a specific reason for spending so much time in this area, I would take one of the Florence/Siena days and add it to Rome.

I would also take at least a day from your Florence/Siena time and add it to Venice. That would give you a day to explore the main area of Venice, and another day to explore the outer islands. Venice is truly unique, and I like to have time to explore.

Also, as you distribute the time, remember to factor in the time lost in transit. If you're traveling by train, assume you lose at least a half a day each time you change locations. Others could comment better than me on the time involved if you have a car. Finally, it may be helpful to think in terms of nights rather than days. For example, 2 nights in a city gives you 1 full day of touring in that city.

Harold, Sherry

Thank you both for your valuable information. It absolutely makes sense to stay in Florence and visit Siena. I am considering skipping Milan altogether and returning from Venice. The airfare does not seem to favor either city - I had chosen Milan as I thought I might get a better deal for the return but it doesn't appear to be any less expensive.

GR

If you haven't bought the airfare yet, fly into Venice, and out of Rome! Skip Milan. Siena is fine as a day trip from Florence, and so is Pisa (something the kids might enjoy).

Hi WriteFace, I agree with flying into Venice and out of Rome. On both my trips to Italy I was unable to fly into Venice but hope to sometime see the city from the air upon arrival. Venice is a good place to recover from jetlag as it's not about catching trains and driving cars, just walking/exploring and riding on Vaporettos (buy 72 hour pass). I think that the kids would really enjoy Venice too. I also understand from reading posts on this forum that many flights departing from Venice leave really early in the day and it is a hassle getting to the airport so early. I would also give Venice a minimum of 3 nights, decrease/scratch Milan nights and give another night or two to Rome(possible to take a day trip south to Pompeii). With a two week timeline, I would make your third city Florence with side trips to Siena and Tuscan countryside. You don't have much time to plan this so once you decide your itinerary I would use booking sites such as Venere.com, Booking.com to find availability for four persons for your dates. You could still book directly with the hotels if you find suitable properties with availabilty on these sites. Happy planning and have a great family experience in Italy. Sherry

We are just finishing our third trip to Italy. I think you schedule as a whole is pretty good. Rome is worth four days for sure and the bottom line is you really are most likely getting 3 full days minus travel and jet lag. Florence is great for two days. I would only spend one day in Siena. I was just there and wouldn't want to spend more than one day. I would spend the day you take away from Siena and add it to Venice. Also, don't know if you air schedule is set but if not I might end the trip in Venice. Logistically might make more sense. Also make sure you save time by getting certain reservations in advance such as museums in Florence and Last Supper in Milan. Last Supper you will need advance reservations. Check out RS books for which reservations to make and which times are best.

The only issue with flying out of Venice is that it will be an very early connecting to somewhere else. There are direct flights back from Milan that depart much later in the day. I am one who likes Milan thinks it is worth at least a full day if not two.

If you want to see Milan, it doesn't much matter if you go from Rome to Milan or Milan to Rome. But if you are skipping Milan, definitely fly into Venice and out of Rome. The logistics are MUCH easier that way. Getting to Venice airport early in the morning (usually required for flights back to the US) is expensive and/or time consuming. Getting to Rome airport early is faster, easier, and less expensive.

Write,

Your proposed Itinerary looks reasonably good, but I'd probably arrange it a bit differently. Would something like this work.....

• Day 1 - Flight to Europe
• Day 2 - Arrive Rome (you'll be jet lagged so probably won't get much touring done).
• Days 3-6 - Rome and perhaps a day trip to Orvieto (about one hour each way by train).
• Day 4 - Train to Florence (90 minutes). Your destination station will be Firenze S. Maria Novella. If you arrive in the early afternoon, you'll have time for some touring.
• Days 5-8 - Florence with day trip to Siena (one hour each way via Bus). You could also consider day trips to Lucca, Pisa, the Cinque Terre or other locations in the area. The advantage in staying longer in Florence is that it's a good "home base" for Tuscany and will save one change of location and hotels.
• Day 9 - Train to Venice (~2 hours). Depending on what time you arrive, you'll have time for some touring. Your destination station will be Venezia S. Lucia.
• Day 10 & 11 - Venice
• Day 12 & 13 - Train to Milan (~2H:35M), touring Milan. Your destination station will likely be Milano Centrale. You could spend one day touring the sights of Milan and take a day trip to Varenna (Lago di Como) on the second day. The trip is about an hour each way by train.
• Day 14 - Flight home

There are many ways this could be arranged, and this is only one suggestion. Of course, the length of time in each place could be adjusted according to your level of interest.

I'd suggested getting the Itinerary finalized ASAP and get some hotels booked! June is spring shoulder season and leading into the peak summer season so it will likely be busy and many hotels will probably be fully booked. Also, there are some potentially expensive "caveats" to be aware of when using trains and other public transit in Italy. If you need further information, post another note.

Happy travels!

Thank you all for the info. I used this forum in 2011 to visit London, Paris, and Switzerland and had a great vacation. I am sure this vacation will turn out to be great as well.

I hope to book my tickets tomorrow and I plan to fly into Venice and fly out of Rome. Due to various reasons, I couldn't plan ahead for this vacation and I am now scrambling:) Any inputs on good places to stay will be very welcome. I am hearing quite a bit about the airbnb service for booking accommodations. Should I consider that or stay with the hotel route?

Thanks again

GR

Try the crosspollinate web site for B and B^s in those cities

I agree with the cross-pollinate.com site for b and b's/lodging in Rome, Florence and Venice. We have been very happy with them.

We have used airbnb.com before and had good success. Just look for a host who has positive reviews and has terms that you can live with. Location is everything, and the host will usually give directions to local sites.

Thanks deeganm, claire,hoopla43. I am looking into cross-pollinate.

My travel schedule looks as below:

Jun 14, 2014 Fly from SFO to VCE
Jun 15, 2014 Arrive into VCE 1st night in VCE
Jun 16, 2014 Venice 2nd night in VCE
Jun 17, 2014 Venice 3rd night in VCE
Jun 18, 2014 Depart & Arrive into Florence 1st night in FLO
Jun 19, 2014 Florence 2nd night in Flo
Jun 20, 2014 Florence to visit Sienna 3rd night in Flo
Jun 21, 2014 Depart & Arrive into Rome 1st night in Rome
Jun 22, 2014 Rome 2nd night in Rome
Jun 23, 2014 Rome 3rd night in Rome
Jun 24, 2014 Rome 4th night in Rome
Jun 25, 2014 Rome 5th night in Rome
Jun 26, 2014 Rome 6th night in Rome
Jun 27, 2014 Fly from FCO to SFO

Does the above look OK? Should I take away time from Rome and add to Florence or Venice?

Thanks

Venice looks perfect to me. More time in Rome is better. You could use one of those days to do a day trip to Pompeii or Ostia antica.

Now, I know many people on these boards are against 1 nighters, but you might want to do that in Siena instead of going back to Florence since you are heading to Rome the next day. Take the Sita bus from piazza gramsci to Rome tiburtina bus/train station, then hop on the metro to easily get wherever you like in Rome.

You could also use one of your days in Rome to take a day trip to Orvieto, which is a historic and beautiful Umbrian hill town (it's about an hour each way from Rome).

Regarding travel to Rome, I'd probably stick with the original plan and leave from Florence. It will be a much quicker trip via Freccia train rather than Bus, and you'll arrive right at Roma Termini (no Bus can travel at 300 kmH).

Thanks Angela, Ken.

Yay! My tickets are now done! Is Cinque Terre a day trip from Florence? As per RS's Italy guide he recommends sleeping in Vernazza.
I'd like to go on a hiking tour of CT if possible. How do I plan for it in my schedule?

Thanks again

A day trip from Florence to the Cinque Terre is certainly possible (I've made that trip), but I'm not sure how much time that will allow for hiking. One point to note is that some of the Sentiero Azzurro trails are closed so that will limit the hiking opportunities. AFAIK the trails from Corniglia to Vernazza and Vernazza to Monterosso are the only sections open of those trails. If you don't want to spend much time exploring the towns, you could certainly hike the trails that are open (Park Pass required).

Once you arrive in the C.T., it's very easy to travel between the five towns using the local trains (fares are cheap). You could also take the boat (weather permitting) from Riomaggiore to Monterosso as that provides a great view of the five towns from the water. The boat stops in each town except Corniglia.

You might consider visiting Monterosso last and then stopping for dinner there before returning to Florence. There are lots of nice restaurants (and also a great beach). As I recall, the last train of the night departs Monterosso at about 21:00, but you can check the schedules to verify that.

Most people find they need about 2 nights in CT to really appreciate it, although it can be done as a day trip. If you want to add a couple nights there into your itinerary, go there after Florence and before Rome.

A follow up to Angela's Comment: I've been on the Italy Forum looking for lodging in CT for late September. Ken was helpful to me in finding a place, but it took quite a bit of emailing to book lodging we think is right for us and our budget. If you're contemplating staying a night in CT, look into lodging sooner rather than later.

Glad to see you got some useful advice.

Thank you all for providing info on CT. I am unable to find reasonable accomodation in CT for Jun 21/22 online. Any pointers on where to stay in CT? Any recommendations of hotels/apartments?

Thanks
GR

Before offering suggestions on lodgings, do you have a preference for which of the five towns you'd like to stay in. At this late date, you'll probably have to take what you can find.

Hi Ken,

Going by RS guidebook, I picked Vernazza & Monterosso. However, I don't mind staying in any of the towns as long as the accomodation is easily reachable from train station and decent for our family. I have emailed some of the top rated b&b from trip advisor but haven't heard back. Your help is much appreciated. Thanks.

GR

Thanks for the additional information. Monterosso is a good choice as it's the largest of the five towns and therefore has the greatest number of lodgings of various types, including more conventional hotels (many of which serve breakfast). Vernazza also has quite a few places but they tend to be more B&B's and private rooms (some of which don't serve breakfast).

You could start by checking THIS list for Monterosso. I believe it's reasonably current and web links are provided. I'll mention a few specific places to try.....

• Hotel Villa Steno (old town, rated as #1 on Trip Advisor) - VERY popular so likely fully booked, but doesn't hurt to try. This is my absolute favourite hotel in Italy (and perhaps all of Europe).
• Hotel Pasquale (old town, I believe #2 on Trip Advisor) - also VERY popular and a "sister" hotel to Villa Steno.
• Villa Adriana (new town at the far end) - has a larger number of rooms but could also be fully booked. They serve a nice breakfast.
• Hotel Porta Roca (far end of the old town, at the start of the trail to Vernazza - somewhat upscale / more expensive but the views are incredible and I'm sure you'd be very comfortable here should they have a vacancy and your budget will allow staying there). I believe their new swimming pool is now in operation (which has incredible ocean views).
• Hotel La Spiaggia - (new town, very close to the station and right at the beach) - I've never stayed there, but have heard good things. Given its location, I suspect it's fully booked but you can try.

Have a look at those first and also check each of their ratings on Trip Advisor. Also check the websites for each of the others, as I suspect you MAY be able to find something in Monterosso. As it's the largest of the five towns, it also has the greatest number of restaurants and a great beach.

I'm not as familiar with Vernazza but you could start by checking THIS list of lodgings, and again web links are provided. There are some good restaurants in Vernazza right on the harbour which is a very beautiful and scenic spot to enjoy a fine meal.

In the other three towns, check the Guidebook listings. I've used Mar-Mar Rooms in Riomaggiore in the past, but their product offerings seem to be fewer now than a few years ago. You could still contact them as they may have some suggestions.

One place that's VERY popular in Manarola is La Torretta (even though it's somewhat upscale and higher priced). I suspect they're fully booked, but give them a try.

Hopefully the others will have a few suggestions.

Good luck!

Thank you Ken.

I finally found an apartment rental in RioMaggiore for two nights through airbnb. So far I have found apartments in Venice, CT & a tentative booking for Rome. I am yet to find accomodations in Florence.

I need to figure out train travel from Venice to Florence, Florence to RioMaggiore, RioMaggiore to Rome. Any suggestions?
Should I consider buying passes? Should I book tickets in advance? Thanks again.

My revised schedule is as below:

Jun 14, 2014 Fly from SFO to VCE
Jun 15, 2014 Arrive into VCE 1st night in VCE
Jun 16, 2014 Venice 2nd night in VCE
Jun 17, 2014 Venice 3rd night in VCE
Jun 18, 2014 Depart & Arrive into Florence 1st night in FLO
Jun 19, 2014 Florence 2nd night in Flo
Jun 20, 2014 3rd night in Flo
Jun 21, 2014 Depart & Arrive into RioMaggiore 1st night
Jun 22, 2014 Cinque Terre hiking 2nd night
Jun 23, 2014 Depart & Arrive Rome 1st night in Rome
Jun 24, 2014 Rome 2nd night in Rome
Jun 25, 2014 Rome 3rd night in Rome
Jun 26, 2014 Rome 4th night in Rome
Jun 27, 2014 Fly from FCO to SFO

It sounds like your plans are falling into place. Your train journeys are all very easy......

• Venezia Santa Lucia to Firenze S. Maria Novella - Trip will be 2H:05M via Freccia fast train, which runs at up to 300 kmH. Reservations are compulsory and you MUST use ONLY the train specified on your ticket, or you may face hefty fines which will be collected on the spot!
• Firenze S. Maria Novella to Riomaggiore - this trip uses various types of trains, and the exact type of train and travel time will depend on which one you choose. Travel time will vary between about 2.5 - 3.5 hours, depending on train. One of the shortest and easiest trips is a departure from Florence at 09:53, arriving Riomaggiore at 12:32 (time 2H:39M, one change at La Spezia Centrale - the change is only five minutes so you'll have to be quick!) One of the trains you'll use if you choose that route is a Regionale Veloce and the other is a Regionale - DON'T forget to validate your tickets prior to boarding the train on the day of travel or again, you'll face hefty fines.

A bit of additional information. The trip from La Spezia Centrale to Riomaggiore is only about eight minutes. Be ready to disembark even if the train has stopped in a tunnel. I believe the north bound train arrives on the seaside track, so if that's the case you'll have to go down into a sottopassagio (tunnel) to reach the station platform. From the station plaza (there are ATM's there), go past the station building and through a small tunnel that parallels the tracks to reach the main street and the centre of town. Have a look at THIS Video for a view of the journey (listen at about the 3M:50S mark when the passengers first spot the water).

• Riomaggiore to Roma Termini - this is also very easy and quick if you use one of the direct trains from La Spezia. From Riomaggiore you'll have one brief change in La Spezia and the total trip will be about four hours depending on which train you use. I'd probably use a departure from Riomaggiore at 09:41, arriving Roma Termini at 14:03 (time 4H:22M, first train will be Regionale and the next one will be InterCity which has compulsory reservations). I find that arriving in mid-afternoon works well as the hotel rooms have been serviced, and it also allows time for a bit of familiarization before dinner.

As it's only about two weeks until you'll be travelling, the cheapest Economy and Super Economy tickets may already be sold out, but you could certainly check the Trenitalia website. If the cheap tickets are sold out, even if you pre-book you'd still be paying "Base Fare" which is the same price you'd pay if buying tickets in Italy a day or two before travel. You can only pre-purchase tickets for the premium trains on the website. Just buy Regionale tickets when you arrive there, either from a staffed ticket office or a Kiosk. You could buy tickets for your entire journey in Venice, either at the station or from one of the travel agents listed in the Guidebook.

One point to mention is that if you pre-purchase tickets for the premium trains, you'll be locked into using a specific train, date and departure time. For the few trips I make, I normally just buy tickets when in Italy as that provides more flexibility (but of course that approach costs more).

For the trip from Rome to FCO, you could either use the Leonardo Express (DON'T forget to validate) or a Taxi (price should be about the same with four people).

Your departure day is getting close!

Hi Ken, Thanks for the details.

I am able to buy all tickets from italiarail.com. For couple of trains (SMN - La Spezia & La Spezia to RioMaggiore) the online purchase is a self-service PNR as described below

"This PNR is a Self Service Ticket. In order to board the train you must print a paper ticket at the self service ticket machine located at the train station. To print at the self service ticket machine you will need your PNR number, along with your surname.
Once you have received your paper ticket - you will need to validate the ticket at a validation machine. THIS MUST BE COMPLETED PRIOR TO BOARDING. The validation machines are Green & White on the Front with Trenitalia written across the top and have a red backing. They are located on the train station platforms. Failure to have tickets printed & validated prior to boarding will result in a fine payable to the conductor."

When I travel from SMN to RioMaggiore, do I need to print & validate at the La Spezia station before getting on the connection to RioMaggiore? Or Do I validate the entire trip at SMN itself? If I have to validate at La Spezia will I have enough time to do it? (I think the connection time is only 5 minutes)

Thanks

Could you provide details on the trips you'll be taking from Firenze SMN to Riomaggiore, such as train numbers, departure times or whatever? It sounds like you've bought tickets for the specific Regionale trains you'll be using on that route, which of course have to be validated prior to use. I would have suggested buying those locally at a Kiosk, as that would have made the process easier.

I rarely buy tickets in advance, so I've never encountered this situation before, especially with Regionale tickets. I believe you'll have to use one of the Kiosks to print out paper tickets for the Regionale trips you'll be making, according to the instructions they provided. You'll likely be using one train from Florence to La Spezia and then another from there to Riomaggiore. That will be easier to understand once I've seen the train details mentioned above.

What I'd do in the same situation would be to print out the tickets for all Regionale trips at the Florence station the day prior to travel, according to the instructions. You'll notice on THIS website that there's an option on the machine to "Collect Your Ticket" (scroll down to see the appropriate photo), which is the option you'll be using. You could also have a look at THIS website. The machine will print out tickets that resemble a card.

On the day of travel, simply validate the tickets for each segment prior to boarding the train. That means validating the ticket for the Florence-La Spezia segment in Florence, and the ticket for the La Spezia-Riomaggiore segment in La Spezia. Keep in mind that Regionale tickets have a "shelf life" once validated so it wouldn't be a good idea to validate them all at the same time. In reality, your ticket may not be checked on the final segment to Riomaggiore, as the trip is so short (however I'd still recommend validating).

Regarding the change in La Spezia, the Validation machines should be on the platform or in the tunnels between platforms, so it shouldn't take long to validate them (the validation process only takes about 5 seconds per ticket). One point to mention is that the Validation machines may also be bright yellow. Have a look at THIS website for an example (scroll down about half way on the page).

As mentioned, I've never had to deal with this situation, but hopefully Roberto or one of the others will be able to add some further information.

One other point to mention is that if you buy tickets in the Cinque Terre for travel on the local trains, these may resemble an old fashioned theatre ticket (very small). As I recall, it's necessary to insert these into the validation machine on the left side, otherwise the machine won't "see" them.

Thanks Ken, I haven't bought the tickets from Italiarail yet. I was looking up what options were available as the Trenitalia website was giving me some trouble.

At the minimum I can go ahead with purchase of Venice - SMN tickets (to take advantage of the Bambi gratis fare that gets a child ticket free)

Do you recommend that I buy SMN - La Spezia - RioMaggiore & RioMaggiore - LaSpezia - Rome from a kiosk once I reach Italy?

I will look into the website you referred.

Thanks

It's interesting that Italia Rail is also "powered by Trenitalia" and yet their website seems to work fine most of the time.

Regarding your questions......

• Venezia S. Lucia to Firenze SMN - booking in advance would be a good idea, especially if you can get special rates for the children. Just DON'T miss the train that's listed on your tickets or it will cost more as you'll have to buy new tickets. When buying in advance, you'll generally be issued a PNR code which you can show to the Conductor and no validation is required (unless they instruct otherwise) as you'll be travelling on a Freccia train.
• Firenze SMN to Riomaggiore - that will depend on which trains you decide to use. Could you provide some idea of your preferences (ie: time and date of departure, etc.).
• Riomaggiore to Rome - again, this will depend to some extent on which trains you want to use. If you decide to use the direct InterCity train that I mentioned earlier and you're prepared to commit to that departure, pre-book the tickets for the InterCity train, as that may save some money. For the segment from Riomaggiore to La Spezia, just buy the Regionale tickets from a Kiosk the day before, and then validate them before boarding the train on the day of travel.

It's late so I'll check back here tomorrow.

Ken, Thank you.

I have done the following: I booked BIMBI Gratis tickets for my family so I can free ticket for my children for the following :
Venice to Florence &
La Spezia to Roma Termini.

I can't buy ticket for the 9:53 AM train from SMN to La Spezia yet as the site doesn't allow purchase before 7 days of travel. SImilarly I can't purchase the regional trains to/from RioMaggiore yet. I guess I will buy these once I reach Venice from a kiosk.

On another note:
Finding accomodation in Florence during Jun 18 - Jun 21 is proving to be extremely difficult as there is a big international fashion event scheduled. All reputable hotels/B&B are fully booked. I am kind of stumped there. I hope something will work out.

GR

If this has not been stressed before, Do not buy Regionale tickets on-line. Buy only in the train station. On-line tickets come pre validated with restrictions.

Frank, Thanks for the reminder. Italiarail.com (which is a reseller) allows you to buy tickets for regional trains as well, but I bought my tickets from trenitalia.com which did not allow me to buy regional train tickets. The trains I picked were FRECCIARGENTO & Intercity. I hope they are OK. Also, when I booked the FRECCIARGENTO train, I forgot to list all passenger names, I wonder if that will be a problem.

Thanks
GR