Help me find some focus for a first trip to Italy! ;)

First, how much have your children traveled in the past.? We took both children to Australia when they were about the same age. One is a good traveler, the other not so much. We found that by the time we reached Brisbane, all they wanted to to was sit in the apartment for a day and watch TV. So much for history, interesting sights, etc.

You should assume you will all go back at some time. Don't try to do everything. Florence is easily walkable and they can do a little bit, and then quit for the day. Remember that everyday you move, they have to travel, unpack, repack, etc. and you lose that day for travel.

Suggest you pick your 3-4 most favored locations and maybe do day trips out from those. Naples, hmm, not sure about that one. I think I would skip Naples especially with kids.

Since you're from Colorado, I'd head to northern Italy. More mountains, lakes, etc.

Kari,

If you're from the Denver area, you might find it really helpful to attend the next meeting of the RS Denver group. They'll post a note in the "General Europe" section announcing the time and date of the meeting. Here's the bulletin for this months meeting....

https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/travel-meetings/denver-group-meeting-january

I'll try and offer some Itinerary suggestions on your travel plans in a separate reply. A few questions and comments.....

• Have you booked flights yet?
• Are you planning to use open-jaw flights? That would be the most efficient method and with the locations you've listed, I'd suggest flying inbound Venice and outbound Rome.
• I'd forget Sardinia, as you don't have time especially on such a short trip.
• Am I reading correctly - you're only planning to spend one day in Rome?
• How important is Naples / Positano? Keep in mind that Positano is not as well served by transit (no rail access).
• Public transit and rental cars both have some potentially expensive "caveats" so you'll need to be aware of those (if you need further information, post another note).
• Are you planning to pack along a copy of the Italy guidebook?
• That time of year will be hot and crowded, so it would be prudent to get hotel reservations in place SOON, especially for the Cinque Terre.
• Which of the five Cinque Terre towns are you planning to stay in?

Kari,

Are your dates at all flexible? Flying mid week could save you some money.

Check round trip Milan and as Ken suggested multi city flights.

You have about 19 days, assuming you're not going to get a lot done on your arrival day. I would suggest limiting the trip to four locations, flying into Venice (which is a gentler introduction to Italy, compared with Rome) and out of your last destination. It's going to be hot and crowded, and I think it would be nice to have enough days in each destination that you can spare some down time for relaxing – hence my suggestion to limit it to four destinations. For variety, you could do a few day trips from Venice, Florence, or Rome. Assume you will lose one-half to a full day of touring time each time you change locations.

I'd suggest sequencing your destinations as follows: Venice, Florence, the CT, and Rome. And all of them can easily be reached by train. If you want to add a fifth destination, I would choose between Sardinia and the Naples area, not trying to do both of them.

My 2 cents.
You fly out of DEN, a United hub. The Star Alliance partnership (United and Lufthansa are both partners) are your best bet. There are no direct flights from DEN to Italy, so via Germany will be your likely choice (FRAnkfurt). An open jaw flight (arrive in the north, like Venice, and return from the south, like Rome Fiumicino) is the most cost effective option. For example:
Going: DEN >FRA >VCE
Return: FCO >FRA >DEN
It's your first trip to Italy and you have 20 nights on the ground. To plan always count nights, not days( and remember that 3 nights in a location are just 2 full days at that location).
You are going to Italy in the hottest possible time (temperatures in the 90s and 100s, with humidity higher than Colorado) with two young kids.
My trip would be:
Arrive VCE (via FRA with Lufthansa)
Venice: 3 nights (with day trip to Murano and Burano or Lido beach)
Rent a car in Venice before leaving
Lake Garda: 4 nights (Gardaland theme park one day or auto Safari adventure,, or visiting and enjoying the lake beaches, villages and/or nearby Verona)
Dolomites mountains: 3 nights (mountain hiking, driving the majestic mountain passes)
drive to Tuscany
Tuscany in country location with pool: 4 nights with day trip(s) to Florence and other Tuscan locations or just hanging at the pool.
drive to La Spezia and return car. Train to Cinque Terre.
Cinque Terre: 3 nights (hiking the trails or hanging at the beach in Monterosso)
train to Rome
Rome: 3 nights
Sorry the 20 nights are gone.
Fly home DEN from Rome FCO (via FRA or other United/Lufthansa hub).
I would leave Positano and the Amalfi coast to another time. If you want to go there at any cost, you should cut the Cinque Terre out (same fishing villages stuff) and something else.

Add or take a night here and there according to your preference, but you get the picture.
My take is that with the scorching heat and two young kids, you shouldn't hang out in the big cities visiting monuments and museums too long. Lakes, mountains, countryside and the sea are much more bearable to kids (and maybe you too) at those temperatures. If you drop an egg on a sidewalk of Florence or Rome in July, it will actually fry faster than on a pan.

PS: if you visit too many museums and churches your children will hate you for the rest of your life and put you on a disreputable resting home before you turn 70.

For things to do with kids, check the Lonely Planet guides or Google the city name and things for kids. There are some very good child-friendly museums.

Nice work Roberto! I would probably take one night from Lake Garda and add it to either the Dolomites (Ortisei!) or Roma. You and your kids will LOVE the mountains and riding in the cable ways. Our grandnephew and neice, ages 6 and 2, were crazy for the mountains, the lifts, and the hikes. The scenery is amazing and the temperatures mild.

I've taken my kids to Europe twice -- to England when they were 12 and 14 and to France the next year. I think Roberto's advice is right on. It is much easier to travel with kids in the countryside. We did see some of the Big Sites, but we also took time for hiking. We didn't spend a lot of time in museums.

That said, Italian cities are unique. A city with canals and boats -- how cool is that? Buildings that are 2000 years old. Wow!

I think the biggest things to take into consideration is how your kids will handle the heat and how flexible they are when things are different from what they are used to. Both of these things are easier to deal with when you are in smaller towns

Thanks in advance--Here are answers to your questions. POST 1 of 3

First, how much have your children traveled in the past.?

Our kids have traveled quite a bit in the US, and we have done one 2 wk trip to Costa Rica last summer, where we traveled around the country to 4 different locations over the 2 weeks. My husband and I have traveled more extensively. Older child is avid reader and will be occupied anywhere, the younger one needs more physical activity like swimming, or eating gelato. ;)

Have you booked flights yet? No
Are you planning to use open-jaw flights? That would be the most efficient method and with the locations you've listed, I'd suggest flying inbound Venice and outbound Rome.--I have started looking into this, but prices seem cheaper and shorter travel time on USAir into and out of Rome. I will take a closer look.

Am I reading correctly - you're only planning to spend one day in Rome? no, right now I was thinking 4 days at beginning and one day before heading out. My thought was 4 nights total to see Rome

How important is Naples / Positano? Keep in mind that Positano is not as well served by transit (no rail access). I REALLY want to go to the Amalfi coast

Are you planning to pack along a copy of the Italy guidebook? Not sure at this time, I usually create my own document that is more easily accessibly via phone and then might bring a smaller Rome or Venice book.

Which of the five Cinque Terre towns are you planning to stay in? I haven't decided yet...

Are your dates at all flexible? No, these dates provide us with longest amount of time
Check round trip Milan and as Ken suggested multi city flights.--Will do.

You have about 19 days, assuming you're not going to get a lot done on your arrival day. I would suggest limiting the trip to four locations, flying into Venice (which is a gentler introduction to Italy, compared with Rome) and out of your last destination. It's going to be hot and crowded, and I think it would be nice to have enough days in each destination that you can spare some down time for relaxing – hence my suggestion to limit it to four destinations. For variety, you could do a few day trips from Venice, Florence, or Rome. Assume you will lose one-half to a full day of touring time each time you change locations.
I'd suggest sequencing your destinations as follows: Venice, Florence, the CT, and Rome. And all of them can easily be reached by train. If you want to add a fifth destination, I would choose between Sardinia and the Naples area, not trying to do both of them.---

Thanks Robert....I think I am moving in this direction with the 5th direction being Positano/Amalfi/Pompeii

I will start looking for flights into Venice and out of Naples

Post 2 of 3

You fly out of DEN, a United hub. The Star Alliance partnership (United and Lufthansa are both partners) are your best bet. There are no direct flights from DEN to Italy, so via Germany will be your likely choice (FRAnkfurt). An open jaw flight (arrive in the north, like Venice, and return from the south, like Rome Fiumicino) is the most cost effective option. For example:
Going: DEN >FRA >VCE
Return: FCO >FRA >DEN
It's your first trip to Italy and you have 20 nights on the ground. To plan always count nights, not days( and remember that 3 nights in a location are just 2 full days at that location).
You are going to Italy in the hottest possible time (temperatures in the 90s and 100s, with humidity higher than Colorado) with two young kids.
My trip would be:
Arrive VCE (via FRA with Lufthansa)
Venice: 3 nights (with day trip to Murano and Burano or Lido beach)
Rent a car in Venice before leaving
Lake Garda: 4 nights (Gardaland theme park one day or auto Safari adventure,, or visiting and enjoying the lake beaches, villages and/or nearby Verona)
Dolomites mountains: 3 nights (mountain hiking, driving the majestic mountain passes)
drive to Tuscany: Because we live in the mtn., I really want to be by the coast for more of the trip...think there is any way to incorporate mtns/Lake Garda over 3 days v. 7?
Tuscany in country location with pool: 4 nights with day trip(s) to Florence and other Tuscan locations or just hanging at the pool.
drive to La Spezia and return car. Train to Cinque Terre.
Cinque Terre: 3 nights (hiking the trails or hanging at the beach in Monterosso)
train to Rome
Rome: 3 nights
Sorry the 20 nights are gone.
Fly home DEN from Rome FCO (via FRA or other United/Lufthansa hub).
I would leave Positano and the Amalfi coast to another time. If you want to go there at any cost, you should cut the Cinque Terre out (same fishing villages stuff) and something else. I will think long and hard about that....but I really want to see both places.
Add or take a night here and there according to your preference, but you get the picture.
My take is that with the scorching heat and two young kids, you shouldn't hang out in the big cities visiting monuments and museums too long. Lakes, mountains, countryside and the sea are much more bearable to kids (and maybe you too) at those temperatures. If you drop an egg on a sidewalk of Florence or Rome in July, it will actually fry faster than on a pan.
PS: if you visit too many museums and churches your children will hate you for the rest of your life and put you on a disreputable resting home before you turn 70. I have thought long and hard about that. We are definitely more outdoor site/wildlife/landscape people that museum people, although I hope to maybe do 2 days of museums while we are there?!

For things to do with kids, check the Lonely Planet guides or Google the city name and things for kids. There are some very good child-friendly museums.--Thanks

Nice work Roberto! I would probably take one night from Lake Garda and add it to either the Dolomites (Ortisei!) or Roma. You and your kids will LOVE the mountains and riding in the cable ways. Our grandnephew and neice, ages 6 and 2, were crazy for the mountains, the lifts, and the hikes. The scenery is amazing and the temperatures mild.---Thank you...can you tell me one location for the cable cars that I can focus on researching?

I think the biggest things to take into consideration is how your kids will handle the heat and how flexible they are when things are different from what they are used to. Both of these things are easier to deal with when you are in smaller towns--Thank you. I think the kids are pretty excited and flexible, they can stay up late and will be thrilled with regular meals of pasta and gelato.

Post 3 of 3

I am going to look into a trip that flies into Venice and out of Naple via Frankfurt on United. Then think about:
Venice (3 nights),
Lake Garda/mtns? (2 nights)
Cinque Terre (3 nights)
Florence ( 3 nights)
Rome (4 nights)
Amalfi (4 nights)
Fly out of Naples
Still too much?? Really want to end in Amalfi with some relaxing by the sea.....maybe only two nights in CT?

I really appreciate people taking the time to write and comment!

Your last itinerary looks good. However your kids will probably enjoy more time at the lake or mountains, than in Florence or Rome, which is mostly museums, churches and other ruins and monuments (cities are also hotter). Although Florence is where I grew up (or maybe because of it) in the heat of July I would rather choose a Tuscan location in the countryside nearby (with a pool, an absolute must) rather than in Florence proper. Also if you keep your car from Garda/Mountains, you should definitely not stay in the city of Florence. Hotels with pool in Florence proper are scarce, expensive, and nearly non existent within the historical center. The historical center is forbidden to motor vehicles (except residents with permit).
Lastly the end of your trip. If you intend to return from NAP (via FRA) you need to spend the last night in Naples. Amalfi isn't that close and to catch your connection in FRA you need to take a very early flight out of NAP.
An alternative, if flying out of NAP is too costly, is to return from Rome FCO.
In that case it is best to go down to Amalfi coast first (before Rome) then come back up to Rome for your last nights before the flight home. Always leave your departure city as your last destination.

One more thing. Cinque Terre should come after Florence and before Rome.

Hello dear Kari,
I would like to suggest you one of useful travel tool which is : www.guidemeright.com On this website you can find local people who are willing to meet with tourists and show them around which is cheap than normal guide. According my experience i can tell they will also help on language side and tell you best low-cost and good places for eat, stay and entertain. I hope it will be helpful for future traveler as well ;)

Kari, don't forget the other food group: pizza!

WOW Roberto's itinerary/advice is Perfect! Nothing to add. Printing it up for my future use! P.S. the kids will love the Colosseum in Rome! All kids like it!

Regarding your desire of prioritizing coast over mountain, since you are in Colorado, I understand that.
However, the Dolomites (I second Laurel's choice of Ortisei in the Val Gardena) have features that are unique even for someone who lives on the Rocky Mountains, starting with the human imprint left by the Austrian heritage in that area. I recommend at least 2 nights in Ortisei. It's not that far from lake Garda (less than 2 hours), so you could have 2 nights at the lake and 2 in Ortisei.
Since your interest in the cities is limited, I would fly out of Rome instead of Naples. That's because flying out of Naples would force you to spend an additional night in the city of Naples.
So I would go to Cinque Terre (after Tuscany), spend 2 or 3 nights there. Then take a train+bus all the way to Positano or Amalfi on the Amalfi coast (long travel day). You should spend 4 nights in the Amalfi Coast (so that you have 3 full days to visit the coast, Capri island, and maybe Pompei or Ischia/Procida island).
Then you would come back up to Rome for your last 3 or 4 nights (2 or 3 full days) before flying home.

Thanks Roberto....I am going to digest all the information and keep massaging this plan!

Any thoughts on which town to stay in CT?

Any thoughts on Lucca? I understand it is a pretty cool town to see with kids.

Thanks again for everyone's thoughts!

I love Lucca and it's great for kids (walk or bike the walls, climb the tower with the tree at the top). Pisa and Lucca could be seen in one daytrip.

My town if choice has always been Monterosso. Mainly because is the only one with a beach and because I loved a restaurant there (don't know the name anymore). That's where I always went almost every year when I lived there (never overnight as I day tripped from beach house in Versilia, only 45 min away by motorbike). Your kids will appreciate the beach too. But keep an eye on them, as the water is deep and the drop sudden.
Lucca is a nice day trip from anywhere in Tuscany you decide to stay. No cars allowed in the historical center. Park at a lot outside ancient walls.

Thank you...can you tell me one location for the cable cars that I can focus on researching?

As Roberto and I have mentioned, Ortisei is a great spot. You get cable ways going up two sides of the valley: One at Mont Seuc to the Alpe di Siusi as well as a funicular at Rasciesa to a very fun, picturesque and easy hike along a plateau, and a long, two-part lift at Seceda to a higher area. The latter offers magnificent views, too, but the hiking is more challenging.

If one takes the lift at Mont Seuc, one can hike across the Alpe to Compatsch (2+ hours), take a different cable way down, and return to Ortisei by bus, or hike one hour to Saltria and catch a bus to Compatsch and so on. PM me if you want details on any of this.

These mountains really are different from Colorado. And the uniqueness of the rifugii that are available for refreshments (very high quality!), well, there's nothing like it in the U.S.