Harassed in the street at the Vatican

When I visited the area (a lot), there are people, mostly men, who will try to get you to buy a tour or skip the line.

They are not dangerous! Just say, "no grazie" They did not follow me or say rude things.

Actually, one day, while at St. Peter's Basilica (piazza), I struck up a conversation with three young men. They explained why "they have to be so aggressive at times." They get paid commission -- on the tours they sell -- no base pay. And, it's usually a short stint of work -- maybe a few months. The men I spoke to worked for an Italian woman. The men are from Afghanistan and shared an apartment with a couple more. They told me that is the work they could find for now. They could not get approved to work in a store or as a vendor at a kiosk of sorts. They were working on that though....

“How can it be avoided?”

a. Stay way from the Vatican
or
b). Ignore them

ahhh, does it actually require a racial identifier to discuss 'harrassment' and pushy fake sales? I would have thought that actions alone would have identified the problem....
Regardless, in countries known to have sellers in your personal space, I wear mirrored sunglasses to reduce a chance of eye contact and become an uncaring pedestrian....just keep on walking. Politeness and the feeling one needs to stop and listen to someone speaking to them is a downfall. Once there is eye contact or a slow down in pace, you are fodder for their sales pitch.

Politely stand your ground. I already had (as many times before) nixed the offerings. I usually say, "no grazie" and keep on walking.

But, I had some time before I went into St. Peter's and got to chat up with some young guys explaining to me about their job. They already knew I wasn't buying or interested in a sales pitch. So, it didn't hurt me to learn something new, and as I mentioned, I had the time to spare while waiting to go into St. Peter's for a Mass.

If you think that is harassment, don't ever visit a market anywhere in South or southeasteast Asia. Or Mexico or some of the Caribbean islands. Or just about anywhere in Paris where the " bracelet guys" are operating. Or P. San Marco - I could hold on. As long as they aren't touching you or stopping you from continuing on your way, this is not harassment; just (perhaps) more aggressive sales pitches than you are used to in your neighbourhood mall. A simple no thank you is sufficient 99% of the time.

Good posts from Girasole.
They're just trying to earn a living. Simply decline to purchase what they're selling. The Vatican is also not the only place you're likely to encounter 'earnest' street vendors of tickets, tours, flowers, umbrellas trinkets, etc.

CJ, yep, we were approached more persistently by vendors AND panhandlers in Paris. Mexico? Couldn't go anywhere without being hit up for $$, tours, time-share presentations... We finally had to firmly tell the desk at our resort to lay off the constant phone-sales calls.

I didn’t see any of that going on last July. There were a number of young men selling bottled water outside the Vatican which I happily purchased because it was scorching hot.

Depends what you mean by “harassed”. There are often mildly annoying guys asking anyone who walks by to join a tour. Or to buy water. Or to buy random junk (1-2 years ago it was selfie sticks or these light up helicopter toys. Probably something else now).

Saying no while walking away (clearly, not hesitating to talk and engaging with them) works every time. I don’t consider this harassment - it’s just an annoying but common sales tactic in many places.

If you’ve heard reports of anything more aggressive, I haven’t seen anything like that.

You get this anywhere, it's not harassment and it's not something undertaken solely by males of a particular race. When I was there last year I was approached by a woman of latin appearance (and accent) who was very flirty in her attempt to persuade me to buy a ticket. I simply said "no", the flirtation and smiles were droppped immediately and off she went to try her patter on another punter. It's nothing to get worked up about and certainly nothing to worry about before your trip.

I don't know who puts out these portents of doom and scare stories but it really is nothing short of hyperbole. Just go there with some common sense and a bit of awareness and you'll have no problems. Personally I find the charity "chuggers' in high streets up and down the UK more of a nuisance.

My preference is the "talk to the hand" gesture as I say a brusk "No" and keep walking. And no, I don't ever make eye contact.

some recent advice was about asian guys harassing tourists around the Vatican...

Sources please. I checked the RS scams page and a quick scan didn't have anything like that pop out.

Too often I see posts where "a friend of a friend" said this or that about some scam or harassment. As mentioned, a lot of this is hyperbole.

Have you traveled to Europe or Italy or any larger American city? For that matter, my wife and I went to a movie in downtown Macon, Georgia last Friday night and I was approached by a couple of panhandlers in the one block walk from our restaurant to the theater. I'm going to run out and tell all my friends to never go downtown again! ;-) (I hope you get the picture).

Expect some of this acitivity. It comes with the territory. Learn situational awareness. Learn how to avoid looking like a mark. More than anything, go and enjoy!

Thanks Kathy!

guys thanks very much for joining this and helping out, my travel agent in Europe gave me some advice on the phone, I have experienced this in other places and its something that I find difficult to manage although I wont be alone.

Relax. It's not difficult to manage.
Rome is a treat; you'll have a wonderful time. Just ask us! :O)

It’s really not difficult to manage when you learn to just ignore them. Don’t respond or engage other than “no thanks” and then “no” with increasing firmness if the same person keeps persisting. Which doesn’t happen very much - they move on to the next person as soon as they see you aren’t buying. The problem comes when you stop and engage. Then they will try to convince you. So just don’t stop and don’t say a thing besides no thanks. Polite but clear. They won’t get insulted if you ignore them because they aren’t interested in socializing when they are trying to work. They want to make money, not hurt you or be your friend.

This happens everywhere including any city in the US. Many places are much more aggressive than in Italy. Learning to manage this kind of thing is a good life skill.

Actually these folks can be very helpful even after you tell them you are not interested in their "deal". They spend every day on the street and they know a lot of the in's and outs of just about everything related to the attraction, in this case the Vatican. Tell them you have a plan and ask a question...you might be surprised at how helpful they can be. They get turned down and talk to the hand all day long...they my be more that ready for a short polite question or two. I've gotten some really great advice from these folks (and they are not all "Asian"). Hawkers are wherever tourists go....have you been to Versaille? If they start trying to give you "free" beads or good luck charms...that's a different pitch..don't engage if you have a hard time saying no...

Mack, you are right - but I consider that “advanced” as far as travel skills go. Being able to read if someone is helpful or trying to persuade you, having the confidence to walk away if you are uncomfortable, judging if their advice is good or funneling you to their cousins shop for a commission (not in Italy, but an issue in other places). Someone who finds street sales pitches difficult to manage and feels harassed is probably better served ignoring the sales people until they feel more comfortable.

It's not any big deal. Just say no and walk on. They just ask, they're not aggressive or threatening. Worst case, you have to walk around someone who is out in the flow of pedestrians. We even joked that if we had taken a challenge to say yes to every request I would now be home with about 100 selfie sticks.

Hi greencat,

As others have written, just politely and firmly say, "no thank you or no grazie." You won't be pursued to where you feel like running. For the most part, when approached, I do make eye contact, smile and say, "no grazie." Never had a problem.

But, let me explain a bit further about my (above post's) experience. It pretty much went down the way I stated.

To further detail: I was hanging around, wandering around St. Peter's Piazza. I was a couple of hours early before I had to get in line for the Mass officiated by Pope Francis for Our Lady of Guadalupe.

I was standing in a corner of the piazza admiring when one of the vendors (who approached me earlier) came over to me. He started talking, asking where I was from, etc. I don't think there is harm to be friendly. He knew from before I did not want a tour. Then his friends/colleagues came over to chat. They told me it was slowing down at day's end.

These guys were hilarious. They were razzing each other and telling me stories about their life in Italy; about meeting Italian girls. lol. They spoke fluent English.

The men were all in their late 20's or so - maybe a couple were a bit older - the ones I chatted with more were younger. They were dressed very nicely -- a dress shirt, dress pants/shoes, a nice winter overcoat, hair - clean cut, closely trimmed facial hair or none at all -- as if they were going to the office. No hats.

At first, I thought they were tourists. They take their business seriously. They explained that for now, selling tours and the like were all they were allowed to do. They wanted to hopefully work in the hospitality (stores, restaurants, kiosks) industry to make more money with a stable job.

With their present job, they work on commission. That is hard. They told me they are out in the streets very, very early until about? 4:30 PM or so most days -- I'm not sure about summer time -- I was there in December.

As I was talking to them, later on, an Italian woman came up; they introduced her as their boss. She told me these guys are hard workers.

As a rule, when I'm approached by vendors, almost all of the time, I look at the seller, smile and say, "no thanks." Simple. It's not an invite for them to continue. Really, don't worry. I don't mind making eye contact because when they see me look directly at them, they know I mean what I say, lol.

I think the more important thing to be aware of is your bag. Pickpockets abound -- on buses, trains, in huge crowds. You won't even know it most of the time. I am not a back pack person. A sturdy, security conscious cross body bag is fine. And never take it off or hang it on the back of a chair, a bench or anything. Pickpockets are not violent, they want to tip toe in and tip toe out. Some get caught. But, don't make it easy for them.

Watch your valuables. Seriously. Rome is great! Have fun but just keep aware and keep a "big city" attitude (not in a bad way.)

Green, just thought of something.

You may encounter beggars in the Vatican area (once I saw the same person at Piazza Navona.) They hold a little cup, shake it in front of you asking for money while saying 'God Bless You.' They try to appeal to your heart strings -- they may have no shoes on or dressed with no coat (even when it's cold out.) I saw this the two years I went in December. They won't harass you. They just move on.

Some (fake merch or junkie stuf)f street sellers may be more insistent than the tour selling people. Also, don't allow anyone to put a string bracelet on your wrist. They will want euro for it. And, they want a lot of euro. With that, just keep walking.

I don't know if you'll encounter the below in or around the Vatican area, but perhaps other Piazzas and the Colosseo.

[I experienced a different version (of the bracelet sell) at Piazza Navona. I was sitting one day (around lunch time) at Piazza Navona. Hustle bustle of the day. Some "Christmas market" kiosks were being set up. It was a gorgeous crisp day. I was sitting and watching a man play with his dog. He had his dog do different tricks, funny.

A woman with a baby in tow - a baby backpack so to speak. She came up to me; said hello. I said hello back. She stood there. Then she started to compliment me. lol, okay. Asked me where I was from, etc. She told me she thought I lived in Italy -- nice, lol -- "because I didn't look like a tourist." Okay. Then, a few minutes, she swiftly half turns and asks me if I like her baby, lol. I was still seated, took a quick look but saw most of the bundle was covered. The baby could've been sleeping? lol. Who knows. Could have been a life-like doll. I saw a teensy bit of face -- teensy.

I'm still watching the guy and his dog, people walking by, kids playing and running around; just enjoying. She could stand there all she wants, didn't bother me.

Anyway, she then pulls out this braided black & white bracelet. She urges me to take it (because "she likes me and I'm a nice person") lol. I said, "no thank you." She still held on to it but kept urging me. I said no thank you three times, still with a smile. She gave up, lol, and walked away. Three no's were going to be my limit. I would have just got up and walked. No argument, no spectacle. No need.]

All is good, lol. No worries, just a heads up.

Go online to the main website and just buy the tickets ahead of time. We skipped the line which was hours long. We did not do a tour but if that is your fancy....

what can I say, Im new to this and just stated using tripadvisor too, what a great support I really do appreciate all your advice
thanks Emma

Yeah, Girasole, you kind of have to sense whether these hawkers/vendors are going to be a royal P.I.T.A. or just trying to do their jobs.

We stayed 5 nights in an Florence apartment facing piazza Santa Maria Novella, so obviously we were in & out of our place and traversing the piazza multiple times a day. For the first day or so, we were approached numerous times by the hawkers trying to sell selfie sticks, amulets, God-knows-what, and we would respond with eye contact and a polite but firm 'no, thank you' and would keep walking. It was starting get a little annoying, and I was starting to think of ways to avoid them.

But from my 2nd floor window overlooking the piazza (I recommend this as a great way to people-watch!), I'd watch these guys work--the same guys, which told me they kind of had their own 'territory'--and they were always respectful and not harassing. The next day I was outside our apartment waiting for my wife to come down, and one of the vendors from the previous day approached, then recognized me and just waved. It was not busy so we just started to talk. He was Nigerian, and as stated upthread, just trying to make a living. Fascinating conversation. I almost gave him a couple Euro but not wanting to set a precedent we just parted as acquaintances.

And for the remaining days, all of them gave me distance and would wave as we'd walk past. Kinda nice, actually.

Ha Jay, great story.

As mentioned, it doesn't cost much to be nice but still decline an interest in what they're selling.

It's kind of a shame that while some tours may be legit, the ones who rip off unsuspecting travelers get lumped in.

Edit to add: Also, these vendors are probably under a lot of pressure to sell their wares -- probably making only commission in most cases as I have learned last year. I did see at times in Navona and Campo de' Fiori, kids, usually little boys wanting the gooey "slam down" toy or something similar. Most parents bought it for the kids. I didn't see any police running after them though, lol.