Gypies

I have been to Roma more times than you have had hot meals and I have always seen the Gypsies. AND, once when there the paper ran a story interviewing the Gypsies and they call themselves that. They were building a new center for them outside Roma to try and give them legitimate jobs and keep them away from tourists. To say they are not Gypsies is only showing your ignorance. Prejudice has nothing to do with it.
It goes without saying that not all the pickpockets in Roma are Gypsies, of course, but many are.

The gypsies are still there. The latest population to infest Roma is the Peruvian Indians. Last summer on the metro I caught a large, unattractive Peruvian Indian lady trying to pick my pocket. I was lucky enough to catch her in the act and I then beat her with a water bottle. The only items she took from me were bruises.

Buon viaggio,

RB

You were lucky. They are usually everywhere.

Donna

Thats good!I heard they were trying to put a crackdown on this...Last time I was there is was bad..So I am happy to hear that..For a woman asked me for money,and I ignored her and she called me cheap in italian..So I told her"i work,so should you"...There has been a few instances in the italian news with them using violence so it appears maybe they are trying to stop it..

No Gypsies eh? Any other races you did or didn't see on your travels?

Saw some Somali's selling the counterfeits on the streets in Rome, and lots of Tamils and Indians in Palermo, however, no aggressive panhandlers anywhere.
It seems to have been pretty cleaned up since the police sweep in Rome last year.

I've not seen the swarms of kids in Rome ever...I've been there 3 times in the last 3 years and back again in June 2010.

@ Peter. No need to be obnoxious. Gypsies are neither a race nor a nationality. Although, Gypsies in Europe originated from India hundreds of years ago.

The Gypsies have become a little more savvy as the police crack down. They are still there, but they blend in so that they are less obvious these days.

"large and unattractive" - scandalous!

I could have said fat and ugly.

Scott: Gypsies are indeed considered a race.

It's a shame that many, many posters here use "Gypsy" as a synonym for "thief". I can only hope it is due to ignorance of the word's meaning rather than more unsavoury motives.

Here's the view of one of Rick's correspondents (it speaks about Eastern Europe but its point is valid elsewhere.) The Gypsy Question.

I lived in Rome and visited many times.I have never seen a gypsy not using their children to steal or beg.Once I do,I will form another opinion about them..Until then,I'll keep my opinion from experience

Susan..."I have never seen a gypsy not using their children to steal or beg." Just wondering how you know that none of the peaceful families you pass by in Rome weren't Gypsy families?

I'm not racist by any means..But when you have a large continued experience with the same thing over and over again,you're bound to form an opinion..I am certain there are "peaceful" gypsies that want to incorporate their children into society and schools,unlike the rest.However, I'm just speaking from my experience living there and my boyfriend who lives there..For if you also read the italian news everyday,you will see that it is the italians that were fed up with alot of their behavior.Can't blame them.As well as if people were fed up with italians "me' for our behavior.ex:mafia,etc.I wouldn't blame these people either.Crime is crime.

But no reason to have a debate..Every should respect everyone else's opinions..Happy travels:)

@ Peter. I am filling out my 2010 Census. I don't find a check box on it for "Gypsies" as a race or ethnic group. I'm just saying...

We have been in Rome and felt robbed by shop owners, felt over charged in bars anytime we bought a coffee. I enjoy the expression, treat others as you would like to be treated.

We were in Rome last week too - saw a couple with a baby on the Metro.

I saw one group of Gypsies in the Naples area last week. All the Italians were freaking out, and when our train from Caserta arrived in Naples, all the Italians on the train went out of their way to exit as far as possible from them.

Frankly, it is RACISM to assume that every Gypsy you see is trying to rob you. That's what racism or prejudice is: assuming a person's behavior based on their ancestry or appearance. Was I more careful around them? Yes, but I do whenever I see a large group of people behaving suspiciously.

I disagree obviously..Because I am not racist nor do I feel like someone in a form should state people are.
My boyfriend lives in Caserta and I have lived in Rome..Unless you have lived in an area with crime and experience with the situation,
I wouldn't be throwing racism around in a forum..But then again some people
Just like to post to argue with people...Not the place.

May not be racist per se but it is certainly prejudiced. I don't mean to discount anyone's negative experiences with a certain group or population but to extrapolate those experiences to an entire culture or ethnicity is prejudice. It is pretty much the definition of it.

We really had a problem with the scams and the gypsies in Rome last time we were there in 2006. It may have just been our experience and we just had an unusual number of encounters. This was our honeymoon. We both became exhausted by these crews of children and fending them off. They were everywhere and we never had an uninterrupted moment whereby we could relax and just be in Rome to drink in, and to feel the place and let one's guard down. They were even working the line at the Naples Airport. And not just one crew but three of them. Susan is correct to just see things for what they are. Its not a racial issue. Profiling works in the world of the street and we are only talking about the bad behaviors of some gypsies and not all, we are talking about the obvious stuff. If your experience is that it was gypsies, then that experience can't be discounted just because you want to be PC. These people are determined and directed to rob you. That is what they are actively doing and training their children to do.

I wrote to the Roman Authorities, and said I would not be back till they cleaned this up.
I suspect many other people did also. It was pretty bad in 2006. You couldn't walk up the Spanish Steps with out having to avoid the Counterfeits guys. And then if you sat down, there was every five minutes some kid with a rose approaching you. And we tried to do a picnic once and that didn't work since the Gypsy Kids, one crew after the next, kept approaching us. We got so exhausted that I was starting to become a vigilante. I'd find the Look Out during my morning smoke and tell them I'd call it in where they were working and follow them to point them out to the Authorities. And they'd be gone by the time we started off on our day in that local area.

I don't recommend this to do. Its confrontational and edgy. I was pushing it since they had messed up this very important and expensive trip to us. I was fed up with it.

I agree Francis..Thanks for your reply..Being called racist and prejudice is very ridiculous being that I am against that with people around me..I have problems with clusters of behaviors within cultures..Including mine(italian)..ex:mafia,crime.Of course this isnt all gypsies and all italians,Duh..All italians aren't in the mafia,but say if you lived in Caserta,parts of Naples you'd be fed up too..As the italians are..Violence in any area,culture isn't tolerated..When it becomes repetitive,like numerous gypsies stabbing people in eyes with umbrellas for $5.Killing women in Rome for their purse.Going into apartments and trying to kidnap babies.Using their children to steal and not wanting to allow them into schools or society...This goes for italians that are in the mafia in Caserta,Naples where my boyfriend lives.Shooting people in the street,holding up garbage collection,drug trafficking..It is the collective behavior I have a problem with..If this is "racism" etc,then I am racist towards my own culture? No...just fed up with some of the behaviors of all..Including mine.It's easy to say all those things,but if some people with their behavior or the mafia moved into your street and was doing all these things..See how much tolerance you'd have to either.

Great philosophies there... reminds me of another one...

"they were stigmatized as habitual criminals, social misfits, and vagabonds. Given the Nazi predilection for “racial purity”, it would seem inevitable that the Romanies "

1.2 Million Romani murdered. After all - they're all thieves and liars - that's m personal experience. Blech.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people#Persecutions

Someone obviously didn't get the memo..and wants to pin people as racist for making statements about their experiences abroad.I think the rest of us have better things to do....and that's continuing to help others with their travels.:)

On the other hand some people are p.c . to the point of stupid.

You're right let's move on..I apologize to anyone who thought my words are racist.I think I used the wrong words to describe my opinion of people's behavior.I am literally burnt out.My home in New Jersey flooded and I have been cleaning for 3 weeks..So I am a little tired to say the least..But I'd like to not be called racist in any fashion because I'm not...I have racist neighbors and very much know the difference..Just ran across alot of people including italians in italy(I'm italian) that are enough to make you think twice..But of course it happens everywhere,including here in NYC....I'm not sure who the other person is calling stupid,but this behavior isn;t very nice..I don't think anyone here said things so bad to be addressed this way..But again,I apologize if my words were chosen wrong.

Actually susan,, I did not call anyone stupid,, I meant that people worry so much about saying the politically correct things that they often simply overlook the obvious. I really think before you rebuke others for their posts you stop and think about it a bit .

I have seen gypsies in Rome and Paris. They look just like gypsies. They dress in clothes that are not western. They are begging, and seem to have no permanent abodes.

BUT, while the majority of gypsies are the ROMA people, not all Roma are gypsies.

I think it gets stupid when people get called racist for saying they either saw or didn't see gypsies.

And for the record, our RS tour guide called them gyspies when he pointed them out to us on our walking tour in Rome. He said, watch out for the "gypies" you see watching you ,, and he nodded over to some ladies,, who did not look like tourists or locals. So, I guess he was racist too.

Ohhh I get it now.."P.C"..meant politically correct.I thought that was just a mistype..Now I see. :)..

Thank you for the intelligent, and thoughtful comment susan. I'll remove my previous comment.

I hope things go better for you! chris

You weren't there in the height of tourist season, they follow the crowds.

I travel shoulder season and usually don't see much of the pickpocket/tourist scam crowd but it doesn't mean they won't be there in the summer.

People throwing the word racist around gets so old. Just because a person makes an observation that a particular segment of society has certain tendencies, does not make them racist. Sometimes it is just cold hard fact. We are becoming so politcally correct it is no longer accepatable even to say what is right and what is wrong. I have no idea if the gypsy comment is correct or not, but just because a person makes an observation about their personal experience does not make them a racist.

Jennifer....when those personal experiences are expanded to cover an entire racial or ethnic group as a generalization....yes, that's exactly what racism is.....

The only comment I saw was one regarding the gypsies that hung out around Rome and harrassed people. I don't recall the post saying anything about all gypsies.

My only point is that everyone is hyper sensitive about any reference to race and it gets rediculous.

We were there in November and didn't see any either. We did have a really HARD time getting rid of the rose salesmen at the Spanish Steps. I was so sick of saying "no" that when a man asked me "how I was", I said "no". He looked confused and said "I just asked you how you were!" I felt so bad and was very apologetic!

Traveling off-season is a good way to avoid a lot of the hassles associated with Rome/Italy. I've seen folks who were obviously Roma/gypsies, but they were mostly minding their own business. A couple older women were begging but their efforts seemed halfhearted at best.

We did have pushy picture/rose sellers at Trevi Fountain but when one guy persisted after we said 'No', the two female cops standing on the street above the steps down to the fountain chewed him out pretty effectively.

In 1988 "60 Minutes" did an investigative segment concerning the Gypsy children thieves in Roma and Paris. According to "60 Minutes," the Italian Mafia sent representatives to Romania to rent Gypsy children from their parents who were under tha age of 14 to rob tourists. The reason the Mafia wanted young children was that if they were caught as underage the crime would be a juvenile offense, and not a regular crime. At first, neither the Italian or French governments would take any action. However, after the "60 Minute" report they began to crack down on these youthful thieves. When a youngster would be arrested he/she would be taken to a hospital to have their wrists x-rayed. There are bones in the wrist which stay as 2 bones until the age of 14 when they fuse together. If the bones were fused they went to jail, if not they were turned over to juvenile authorities. According to the 1988 "60 Minutes" report, these children thieves were stealing $100,000 a week from tourists in both Roma and Paris. With this report and some pressure from the US Stae Dept. both governements began to take action. I have personally witnessed these children in action as they've swarmed tourists, especially the Oriental population.

Oh yah, I am Italian and I travel In Italy every year.

Buon viaggio,

RB

RB...I'm having a little trouble understanding the relevance of a 22-year-old news story......

I think half the people in this post should have joined the "debate team" in school..lol :)

Just kidding of course.:)Just lightening the really bad vibe in this post...Everyone have a glass of chianti:)

The purpose of submitting this data from a 1988 source, which of course is 22 years old, is that Romanian Gypsies are not indigenous to Italy and they had to come from somewhere...namely Romania and were brought there for the sole purpose of robbing people. An additional intension of my 22 year old info is to enter some substantiated and historical perspective into the post. However, I seem to have digressed by cluttering the issue with facts.

Buon viaggio,

RB

RB....OK, so Romanian gypsies are not indigenous to Italy. And a mafia group brought a number of gypsy children from Romania to stage thefts in and around 1988. But Gypsies, or Romani, have been in Italy for hundreds of years. I still don't see the relevance of the post to the topic at hand.

Today's public service announcement:

The Romani are not Romanian or "Romanian Gypsies", though some Romanian Gypsies are Romani.

The two words happen to sound similar, but have completely different cultural, racial, and linguistic roots.

The term "Romani" is from the Romani language, which is descended from the languages of the Punjab region in India.

Romania/n is the evolution of the Latin term "Teara Rumâneasca" to Rumânia, to Roumania, to Romania.

In Romania, a double Rr is often used to even separate the groups in writings: Romanian, Rromani.

The term "Gypsy" came from the common European misconception that they were from Egypt due to their looks, and darker skin (and somewhat perpetuated by the Romani themselves). Their genetic lineage actually traces back to India.

Yes, there is a large population of "Gypsies" or "Romani" in Romania (as well as most of Europe). However, they are two entirely distinct and different ethnic and cultural groups:Romani/Romanian.

Interestingly, the name "Romani" for this nomadic ethnic group has been around for (an estimated) 1,000 years, the the terms Romania, and Romanian first appeared in the early 1500's.

Yes, the article mentioned was about "Gypsies" from "Romania", who may very well have been Romani... but at least now we know the difference. :)

"And know we know..." LOL

I think the "mis" in communication comes when some people are thinking the term "Gypsies" to describe the various beggars/thieve packs/organized pick pockets, etc, and some people use it to think of the "Romani" people. Wouldn't it be nice, if all words only had one meaning/definition? :)

I think we can all agree, the former group is not a fun one when you run into them, and yes, since 2008, Italy has done a major crack down to get rid of them. Nice to hear it's working.