Going to Italy This Winter (09)

Why are you trying to cram so much in???? It sounds like you'll be spending most of your time checking in and out of hotels, getting on and off trains and buses. I would cut some out. Some of these places you won't even enjoy because you're in a out so fast!!! Cut it back and enjoy the places that you are going to. This is just my opinion but I believe others will tell you to scale this trip WAY BACK! Whatever you do, have fun.

Thanks Mark,
It is fairly aggressive. Thus my primary motivation for bouncing off this graffiti wall. If you have a few minutes and could respond with a basic sample alternative plan, starting with my plan, it would be most appreciated.

Grazie Mille!
-Scott

OTHER OPINIONS WELCOME!!! :D

Here are some initial thoughts--I'd stay in Sorrento at least 2 nights--it's too ambitious to day trip to Positano on the day you arrive. I'd spend at least 3 nights in Rome (maybe 4)--then go to Orvieto and day trip to S. Gimignano from there. There's not lots to do in S. Gimignano and I think that a day trip is enough. Also, I think that you'll enjoy Orvieto. I'd cut out Cinque Terre as it's January and not lots going on there. I'd stay the extra days in Siena and daytrip to Florence from there. I'd stay in Venice 2-3 nights. I haven't been to Castelrotto so can't comment on that part of the trip. As for Lake Como--we were there in late March and it was very quiet off-season--January could be more so. If you do go to Lake Como I'd stay in Varenna as the transportation connections are better from there to Milan. Have a great trip--I'd just slow down a bit and enjoy!

For me personally - I try to spend 4 nights in major cities (Paris, Rome, London). And 2 in smaller cities (Cinque Terra, Sienna etc). I don't like being on the move that much; checking in and out of hotels, hauling luggage, figuring out transporation, waiting for trains and so on. In a two week trip, for me, I like 4 stops. And within those stops, make day trips. I can't advise you specifically about your itinerary because a lot of the places you have listed - i have not seen. I have been to Rome, CT, Florence, Sienna and Venice. A few people on this blog have said Venice is miserable in winter. I would be hard pressed to skip Venice because I loved it - but that is probably good feedback. Again this is just my opinion - but if it were me, I would cut that intinerary in half. but you will have to decide what your priorities are and I don't know what you have seen before with this being your 7th trip - I imagine you have been to Italy before?

Keep the feedback coming folks (and thank you)!

Although I've been to Italy a few times, rather than spreading our two week trip to other countries this time, we are focussing on Italy.

Although I intend to continue returning to Europe (particularly Italy), I have personally been to most of the cities mentioned. However, now is my chance to share these lovely locales with my two young eager-to-travel-more daughters (both under 9) and in-laws (both active seniors who have travelled with me before).

So, based on the comments received in the past few hours, I have already begun modifying the itinerary. I'll wait for a few more comments then repost my modified version. Thanks again folks and happy travels to each of you.

-Scott

I like Sharon's thoughts. I just want to add one other thing. My husband took a whirlwind trip thru Europe in college. The pace sounds a lot like what you have initially planned. When we went back together a few years later, we spent time in each city instead of running thru it and it made all the difference to him. He missed so much having to fly by - the joke is that he saw everything from the bus window. I am planning a trip that will include my sister (who has not been to Europe yet) and I am having to really stop myself from adding things on just so she can see "this and that". I know that by focusing on a few things she will get more out of it.

One part of our trip that is most difficult to modify is Tuscany. Originally thought I'd have us stay in an Agriturismo in the relaxing countryside. However, again we are going in mid-winter so having access to our top sites (Florence and Siena) is most important. That's why I chose San Gimignano. About equi-distant to both Florence and Siena. However, it seems that wintertime in S. Gimignano (which is fairly small) will be boring? So now, I consider staying in Florence or Siena for three nights and daytripping to the other. Been to Florence thrice now. Opinions?

I think that's a great idea--if it were me, I'd prefer to stay in Siena but others might prefer Florence. We stayed in Siena and took a bus to Florence. I bought my favorite (only) leather coat in Siena!

VOTE:

With four nights, would you:

a) Four nights in Siena (daytrip from there)
b) Two nights in Siena and two in Florence
c) Pick a small town in between for four nights

Thanks for your votes!

Maybe I've already voted but my pick is Siena!

I'm planning my first trip to Rome and Florence so I can't truly give any specific advice. I can share however, some thoughts I've learned from past trips.

I agree wholeheartedly with those who advise staying at least 3 days in each location. You spend a significant amount of time each time you need to pack up, settle accounts, relocate, and checking in.

With at least 3 days, you can have a mid-trip destination to see enroute, then have two (more than 2 for major sites) full days to enjoy the location before moving on.

I also prefer to stay in major destinations if I'm using public transportation for ease of commuting.
Another advantage of major destintions is they can meet multiple needs if several people are sharing the trip -the young adult family members can spend an evening partying, while seniors can have an early night, and there are more choices during the day - historic sites, museums and art, gardens and scenic areas, day trips to surrounding areas, or simply spending a day chilling out to recharge. I know I've enjoyed a spa day while my husband and sons have gone hiking, skiing or golfing. Committing to the smaller towns can limit the choices of each member of a group/family.

As I'm planning my March '09 trip (5 days in Rome and 6 days in Florence and two travel days) I've made and changed plans frequently,but always with the goal of having flexibility to alter each day according to how we are feeling and what we want to do each day...committing to only the top sites that must have reservations, and knowing what options are avialable for each day.

But lets face, any way we do it - its Italy - we'll have a great trip!
kath

You pose a difficult choice but here is my vote....4 nights in Sienna, day tripping from there as your home base.

Scott, to add to what some of the others have said, your initial Itinerary is far too ambitious!

A few thoughts that occurred to me as I was reading the replies....

Although your children may be "well travelled", this is a really tough schedule for children under 9 years old. In some ways, you'll be seeing more of Italy from the windows of a train / aircraft rather than enjoying and seeing the destinations. I don't recall if you mentioned whether your children or your in-laws have been to Italy before?

Rather than focusing on Italy this time, my preference would be to drop some of the locations you listed, and focus more on a region of Italy, e.g. the north (since that's where most of your stops are).

As someone else mentioned, you might want to drop the Cinque Terre this time. Many of the lodgings and some restaurants will likely be closed in January, and the weather may not be suitable for hiking the trails. This is one stop that is best enjoyed when the weather is decent!

Have you booked your flights yet or would it be possible to use open-jaw flights (inbound Milano, outbound Roma, or vice versa)?

One comment regarding Bellagio to clarify. AFAIK, Bellagio does not have rail connections. It would be necessary to use train to either Como or Varenna, and transfer to boat from there. Driving might be another option.

One thing that occurred to me in reading your initial post, is that there doesn't seem to be much allowance for travel times, or potential problems such as strikes.

My preference would be to drop a few of the destinations you listed (such as the C.T.) and add some time in the others so that you have more time to enjoy them. For the short time you have allotted to Sorrento and Pompeii, I'd consider dropping those also. As Rick says "assume you will return".

Could you indicate which stops are most important to your group? I'll have to ponder this a bit longer....

Ok... Yeah you have a lot packed in. Don't bother with Cinque terra in winter. Same with lake como. I was at lake garda on monday and everything is closed for the winter. It was like a ghost town.
Here is my suggestion:
Start in Sorrento 2 nights
Rome- 3 nights
Siennia- 3 nights with day trips to other hill towns and to florence
Venice- 2 nights
To the apls to ski for 3 nights (there are busses from venice airport to cortinia-makes for easy transportation)
Back to Milian for flight home.

If you're interested, I've taken your suggestions into consideration. The result is the following new itinerary:

1/16/2009 Night Flight Philly to Milano

1/17/2009 Saturday - Arrive in Milano / Noon flight Milano to Napoli / Check in hotel in Sorrento / Enjoy Sorrento / Night in Sorrento

1/18/2009 Sunday - Daytrip Positano - Amalfi Coast Drive / Night in Sorrento

1/19/2009 Monday - Check out of Sorrento / Train to Pompeii / Train to Roma / Night in Roma

1/20/2009 Tuesday - Tour Roma / Night in Roma

1/21/2009 Wednesday - Train to Florence (or Siena - still undecided) / Night in Florence (or Siena)

1/22/2009 Thursday - Tour Florence (or Siena) / Night in Florence (or Siena)

1/23/2009 Friday - Rent Car - Driving Tour to Tuscan Town (Montalcino and/or Montepulciano and/or Greve in Chianti and/or Pienza and/or San Gimignano) / Night in Florence (or Siena)

1/24/2009 Saturday - Rest (or if up to it, do some more touring) / Night in Florence (or Siena)

1/25/2009 Sunday - Train to Venice / Night in Venice

1/26/2009 Monday - Tour Venice / Night in Venice

1/27/2009 Tuesday - Train to Castelrotto (or Ortesei) / Night in Castelrotto (or Ortesei)

1/28/2009 Wednesday - Snowboard / Ski Val Gardena (or Cortina D'Ampezzo / Night in Castelrotto (or Ortesei?)

1/29/2009 Thursday - Relax (or if up to it, Tour Alto Aldige) / Night in Castelrotto (or Ortesei)

1/30/2009 Friday - Train to Varenna, Lago di Como / Late Lunch in Bellagio / PM Train to Malpensa / Night in Malpensa

1/31/2009 10:30am Saturday Fly Milano Malpensa - Philly

Any more suggestions on the Tuscany part of my plan? Any thoughts on places in Venice to stay? Any thoughts on the last day brief stop to Lago di Como while en route to Malpensa?

Grazie Mille (a thousand thanks)!

Recommended place to stay in Venice - Al Ponte Mocenigo. I hope I spelled it correctly. I stayed here in late March and it was wonderful. It is a ten minute walk from the Rialto Bridge, in a very quiet area, but that helps you enjoy the real Venice-not just the really touristy areas.

I definitely vote for Siena over Florence. It's calmer and more enjoyable - especially at night. There are great sights and museums to enjoy plus on the edges of town you get a great view of the Tuscan countryside!! Overall, in Siena I feel like you get a real feel for "Italy" and it's people as you roam the streets amongst their apartments and small shops. While I love Florence and all that it has to offer it's definitely more of a "tourist" city. Besides, it's just 1 1/2 to 2 hours by direct bus from Siena to Florence - perfect for a daytrip.

Buon viaggio!!

Venice stay : Hotel Campiello. www.hcampiello.it
Stone's throw from St. Marks. Cute place.

I'd still slow down--especially traveling with children. You'll need more relax-time and Bellagio will be more fun when it's warmer--from Milan you'd take a train to Varenna and then a ferry to Bellagio. It's a lot of traveling for just one night. Consider something like: Sorrento (2); Rome (3); Siena (3); Venice (2); Castelrotto, 3; and Milan (1). Best!

Here's my two sense on an itinerary that will offer both depth and breadth for your Italy experience:

-Fly to Napoli
-3 nights in Sorrento, including one day trip to Capri and one Amalfi Coast tour (Positano; Amalfi Town; Ravello; and hire a driver if you can afford it)
-AM train from Sorrento to Pompeii for about three hours, then continue on to Roma
-3 nights Roma
-1 night Siena (easy bus from Roma to Siena)
-2 nights Firenze (easy bus Siena to Firenze)
-2 nights Cinque Terre
-3 nights Venezia
-Fly home to Philly from Venezia

Save the other locations for another trip. You could also shave a night off Venezia at the end, and add it to Siena or Cinque Terre. As for the skiing, sound fun, but by the time you get there, with all of the travel, will you have anything left in the tank to ski? (: Buon Viaggio!