We have a limo set up to take us to a couple wineries and Volterra from Florence and I am wondering:
It's hard to decipher the winery reviews - after all it is hard to imagine a bad glass of wine in Tuscany.
If you are a wine tour expert (especially in Italy), please help provide some direction.
Thank you
Of course operators favor places that have treated them well and who have provided their past customers with a good experience. One hand washes the other, worldwide. Since you know about Antinori, how can an operator add value by taking you there?
I apologize, no insult was intended. I think the intent of my question is still valid and appreciate any insight into specific practices in Florence to avoid tour disappointment. Thank you
Mi scuso, non era previsto alcun insulto. Penso che l'intento della mia domanda sia ancora valido e apprezzo qualsiasi approfondimento su pratiche specifiche a Firenze per evitare delusioni del tour. Grazie
Independent guides often try to stand out and differentiate from their competitors.
Antinori is famous and the family has been making wine since 1385. It's also one of the masterminds behind the "Super Tuscans Revolution" of the 70s, not exactly a compliment these days.
I wonder what a non-sober Tuscan like Roberto would say of it.
I see no reason to apologize. They could be. I have two prior experiences with this.
We recently took a tour in southern Italy with a RS recommended company. The moment we got in the van with the other passengers, the driver started pushing an extra boat tour. In fact, all the drivers from all the different companies were at the docks and selling the tickets. So the drivers made a little extra. The boat ride was a nice change.
Your driver could very well be making at least some bottles to take home. Our tour guide in the Republic of Georgia got six bottles for taking twelve of us to a very interesting traditional winery for an overpriced lunch.
Mike's comment about you already knowing this one winery, and Dario's comments about what sounds like the Gallo of Tuscany, are informative. Why don't you ask the company why they are recommending the others over your first choice.
Why not just Google the wineries recommended by the limo company and see what you think?
I believe that local, unbiased knowledge is always the best. The key word in there is unbiased.
The second best knowledge is personal recommendations from people you trust or have the same expectations. I think this forum does a nice job of representing this and I appreciate the comments.
The third best is the power of "the crowd" and their ability to steer. I would put online reviews in this category.
Credo che la conoscenza locale e imparziale sia sempre la migliore. La parola chiave è imparziale.
La seconda migliore conoscenza sono i consigli personali di persone di cui ti fidi o che hanno le stesse aspettative. Penso che questo forum faccia un buon lavoro nel rappresentare questo e apprezzo i commenti.
Il terzo migliore è il potere della "folla" e la loro capacità di guidare. Metterei le recensioni online in questa categoria.
This much ado about nothing.
You feel local knowledge is best yet you are questioning their choice of winery. Are they not local? The limo company and the winery?
Your question could easily have been reversed by stating the limo company was taking you to a high ranked winery everyone knows about and that you were hoping for some other wineries.
You can’t win.
Always one point to keep in mind: a company or a personal worker has to gain money to live.
There are several ways to do that.
Imagine I am a Tour Operator and you require me a tour in a place (like Antinori). First I call Antinori, ask them which tours and tastings are available, the differences, and then I ask how much discount they give me as TO on the final price. Maybe the tour costs 60€ and they sell it to me at 54€. I sell the tour to the customer at 60€ and I gained 6€ (10%). Maybe Antinori says the cost is fixed and there is no discount. No problem: I sell it to the customer at 66€.
There is a percentage on what the customer purchase when there? Maybe no. Maybe yes. There are TOs (and guides and drivers) who bring the tourists only in places where they gain a percentage. There are even a lot of places who offer a percentage of the sold products to the guides or TO. And could be done in a perfectly legal way, with invoicing and all the stuff required: no black market, no bribe, no kickbacks.
(honestly I don't like this solution because I saw so many disputes about how much was sold, that I prefer to keep good relations with the places).
Your question is: how do I know it? Simply you can't. And is not even important in fact: is important that the TO/guide/driver book for you a nice, exciting, tasty visit. A nice place, good products, a fine experience is what the tourist want, doesn't really matter the money flux on the back.
The important point is trustworthiness. How is trustworthy the TO/driver? I have no answer about it and honestly I read so many fake declarations even on official websites (not saying the amount of fake review...) that I really trust only personal friends and colleagues. He suggested places that are really a first choice or only based on money?
Last point: Antinori. Does a tour there really deserve? Yes, is one of the most famous Supertuscany wines producer: but does it means that even the tour is interesting? Sometimes is not true. I never visited that winery, so I cannot give a direct review.
A visit to a winery is something really personal. Some people go there only to taste the wines. Others to know more about the technologies. Others to know the history of the place. Recently I like to bring tourists near Modena to a little winery, natural wines (the opposite of Supertuscany), not famous, little production in a strange area: but the owner who lead the group is passionate. The energy and the passion are part of the experience. Since now nobody complain to go there, even the tourist who went before to 3 stars Michelin restaurant.
I know: I have not answered. But I liked to give you other point of views :)
Why not just Google the wineries recommended by the limo company and see what you think?
That sounds reasonable.
From one review of Antinori: "We had tour, tasting, lunch for 4 at a cost of $750 total." Ouch! What I see of the winery, it does look like the Gallo of Chianti.
We have done tours of wineries in Napa/Sonoma, Washington state, France, Germany and Italy. From what I'm seeing, this is not our cup of tea. We would prefer a more intimate experience. Our best experiences have been in smaller, lesser-known wineries.
Instead of assuming greed on the part of the limo company, you might consider they actually want you to have a nice experience.
Thank you to everyone for your replies. I especially appreciated "ricky"s response. It is fair, well balanced and he sounds like a TO that can be trusted. Tourism is a real business, involves real work and everyone working in the industry deserves a livelihood - especially those that work to exceed expectations.
We have taken our fair share of wine tours before too, but none in Tuscany. We enjoy variety in wines and experiences. While I am not sure how Antinori would enjoy being compared to Gallo, the "polished", "industrial", "hyped" (pick your favorite adjective) aspect is not lost on me - "overpriced" is in the eye of the beholder.
Our plan is to have one "authentic", "small", "real" (pick your favorite adjective) Tuscan winery experience and Antinori later in the day and am trusting the limo company to pick that one. No further help needed, but I want to reiterate my appreciation to everyone to understand local practices.
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Grazie a tutti per le vostre risposte. Ho particolarmente apprezzato la risposta di "ricky". È giusto, ben bilanciato e suona come un TO di cui ti puoi fidare. Il turismo è un vero business, comporta un vero lavoro e tutti coloro che lavorano nel settore meritano un sostentamento, specialmente quelli che lavorano per superare le aspettative.
Abbiamo già preso la nostra giusta quota di tour del vino, ma nessuno in Toscana. Ci piace la varietà di vini ed esperienze. Anche se non sono sicuro di come Antinori vorrebbe essere paragonato a Gallo, l'aspetto "raffinato", "industriale", "promosso" (scegli il tuo aggettivo preferito) non mi sfugge: "troppo caro" è nell'occhio del spettatore.
Il nostro piano è quello di vivere un'esperienza enologica toscana "autentica", "piccola", "reale" (scegli il tuo aggettivo preferito) e Antinori nel corso della giornata e confido che la compagnia di limousine scelga quella. Non è necessario ulteriore aiuto, ma voglio ribadire il mio apprezzamento a tutti per aver compreso la pratica locale.
It is interesting to see the English / Italian bilingual answers.
Some of us, maybe many of the answers are comfortable in Italian, but all are comfortable in English. I think this is the first OP always to give bilingual replies.
