First Trip to Italy - Suggestions-Updated

First, I don't think your pricing your multi-city trips properly. We almost always find it is cheaper for the multi-city than RT. But we need to know your schedule. I did a quick check for May, 18, from Denver to Venice - rtn Rome ($1343) and RT Rome ($1300). Even with the super economy ticket that is almost equal in cost and you save nearly a total day over your proposed schedule when you add in the checking in and out of hotels in Rome. So I think you need to reconsider that option. I would go into Venice and come home from Rome.

I think it is easy to over plan. We always have a blank day every four or five days just to do the things we missed or discovered. You will find that changing locations takes more time you most people plan. It is pain to pack, check in and out of hotels, find the train, wait for the train, find the new hotel, new orientation - it all adds up to a lot of wasted time that cannot be avoided. I would fly into Venice, to Florence, and finally Rome.

We planned to leave June 19 and return July 2. We are somewhat flexible around those days. We will be flying out of Portland or Seattle. I checked around on tickets and they are usually 1200 to 1500 for multicity but round trip from Rome is 700 to 900. I might be doing it incorrectly but not sure how

A budget is a subjective thing; there is no specific one size fits all since airfare is the biggest up front cost that fluctuates; moreover some people on the forum stay only in hostels and some only in 5 star luxury hotels. Look at the guide books for maps and information and recommendations so you can organize how to go to the small villages from your base cites Rome Florence and Venice. Find out where you are interested in going by reading the guidebooks or watching videos related to travel on youtube

I have to agree with Frank, as usual. Every time we have booked air to Europe, there is not much of a price difference, if any, to do open jaw.

"but the train ticket is cheaper than multi-city flight" - The train ticket could be cheaper than the flight, but you lose A DAY returning to your origin city ! That usually deters most travelers because you want to be enjoying the culture, not losing a day or part of a day to return.

We would prefer to fly into Rome and out of Venice. We didn't want to have to travel back and lose part of the day but we couldn't ignore the 500 dollars cost difference.

And a point to remember if you do open jaw. Fly in to Venice and out of Rome. The Venice outbound flights are usually VERY early and getting to the airport at the crack of dawn can be expensive, not to mention not getting much sleep.

$500 difference does seem like a lot....

Noted. So if we are able to find multicity tickets for cheaper we should fly into Venice and out if Rome. Side question: how much do you typically spend on food? We plan on cooking some meals but will be eating out. Not always restaurants but we estimated about 1200 euros which would give us 50 a day. I'm worried that won't be enough. Any ideas?

Don't let prices deter you at the moment, you are not leaving for over a year. Start checking prices for June 2018 after they come out and book with what you feel comfortable with. There will be seat sales at some point and it's true that multi city flights can sometimes work out cheaper, which would help with your intended itinerary.

Tabitha - we stay at B&B's who serve breakfast. Because we enjoy wandering, we will pop into grocery stores for bread and cheese or meat (or whatever looks yummy) and enjoy a picnic lunch while we watch people. Dinner may be a restaurant.

Unless you are big eaters or plan nice meals with bottles of wine, your food budget should not be immense ! Maybe you will splurge on occasion, but we have never found Italy to be an expensive place to eat !

If this is of any help, I'll tell you that my husband and I go to Europe every year, often to Italy. Including air fares from SFO, we spend about $10,000 for 3.5 - 4 weeks. We stay at nice, but not super expensive places ; and we eat well, but not extravagantly. Given our experience, your budget estimate seems quite adequate. Of course, there's no predicting fares or exchange rates so far in the future..

We rent apartments. I try not to spend a fortune on food and don't believe you have to in order to eat well in Italy. Our usual day involves a coffee or two and maybe a pastry for breakfast, try and last out until a late, long and leisurely lunch in a back street cafe, a light supper back at the apartment. If we intend to go to a restaurant in the evening, as we do once or twice a week, we cut back on the lunch. I look for a lunchtime special with 3 courses, and am fortunate in that my wife's favourite meal anywhere is spaghetti with marinara sauce. You can pick up slices of pizza, soup and sandwiches at the deli. I do splurge once in a blue moon, what I consider splurging anyway, which some would consider a pittance. I recently read on a post somewhere where the writer was looking for moderately priced restaurants in the 140 euro range for two. I've maybe once or twice spent 100 euros or more, including wine, water and a couple of beers (always need a beer). And I believe I'm dining like a king, which is what I think I am after a few drinks.
I've never been to Venice but it seems like you will have enough to do in the three cities mentioned without too many side trips. There are plenty of posts on this board and other forums for tips, and you have lots of time for research.

If this is of any help, I'll tell you that my husband and I go to
Europe every year, often to Italy. Including air fares from SFO, we
spend about $10,000 for 3.5 - 4 weeks. We stay at nice, but not super
expensive places ; and we eat well, but not extravagantly. Given our
experience, your budget estimate seems quite adequate. Of course,
there's no predicting fares or exchange rates so far in the future..

Sounds about right. The key is managing your money, and the fact that the longer you stay, it seems that the less per day you spend.

Let's talk about a hypothetical 3-week trip in very round figures. A good price for air round trip from the U.S. and back for two is $2000. For three weeks abroad--in Italy--I love apartments too, so I know I could do it comfortably for $100/night but let's say $125/night--$2500 for 20 nights. I can easily eat well (at least I did in Rome) for $100/day for two--another $2000.

That's $6500 without transportation, sundry items, advance insurance, stuff you buy over there. As long as you're not taking taxis all around, figure another $1000-1500. That's eight grand for a three week trip, and to my way of thinking you're not sacrificing anything.

But throw all those numbers out the window in Paris or Switzerland...which is why I love Italy!

Cooking your meals implies staying in apartments, not B&Bs. Some apartments have minimum nights requirements. That might be a reason to put Rome at the end of the trip. And/or maybe to take a night from Rome and add it to Florence or Venice. Remember that the day you arrive you will be jet-lagged, especially coming from the west coast.

One other thing you could do is fly RT to Rome, but get on the train immediately right at FCO for Florence. Add your potential extra night there. Then train to Venice and back to Rome at the end.

Using Google Flights today I didn't see any airfares beyond March 2018. I did see some multi-city ones Portland-->Venice (1 stop usually in Amsterdam) and Rome-->Portland (non-stop) in March for about $1400. Searching RT PDX<-->FCO you can click on flexible dates to generate a matrix so you see the cheapest pair to fly. Most of those fares were about $1300. The good thing is that you can set up email notices that will inform you of any price changes in your preferred itineraries, so you can pounce on the right price for you.

I can see where you can fly cheaper from Seattle, but you have to get up there and back to do it. Beware of some of the cheapest fares and of flying on non-US carriers. They often are on airlines that are more restrictive on carry-on luggage, may charge for checking bags and may charge for seat assignments. And...there may be multiple stops each way or even an overnight layover, especially on the way home.

About your budget. Some years ago RS estimated about $150 - $180 per person per day, not counting airfare. My husband and I are usually in that range. Many on the forums spend much less. I count everything and that means lots of costs that others don't have or don't count. Your numbers will doubtless be less, but I don't think $50 per person per day for lodging, food, transportation, entrances to sights, etc. will be enough. As you research in more detail, you will figure out how much you actually need. For us, lodging is always the biggest expense, followed closely by food. He eats a lot, whether at "home" in the apartment or out. You will be going at prime tourist season, and to expensive places, so be sure to look at lodging costs for this summer to get your best estimates.

The 50 euros pp budget is for food only, I believe. There used to be a number of Airbnb's with only a two or three night minimum in Rome, for example, though you are likely to get a better break the longer you stay.

It's about 1 hour 15 min from Rome to Orvieto. Head there first up to ease yourself into things.

Arrive Rome. Direct to Orvieto (2N)
Train to Venice (3N)
Train to Florence (3N)
Train to Rome (4N)
Depart Rome

Yes, the 50 dollar budget was for food only and that is 50 for each person a day. The B&Bs we are interested in have kitchen access. We expext our plane tickets to be around 2000, 1000 for lodging, 1000 for food, and then 1000 for transportation and tickets for places.

$50 per person per day for food is excellent... in fact, you probably won't spend it all unless you drink a lot. Don't worry so much about cooking, but if breakfast is included it's awfully nice. As mentioned above, I think about $10,000 for two for a MONTH is plenty. Do fly open jaw. Using your time well is as important as using your funds well.

Because of early morning departures from Venice maybe look for open jaw starting in Venice and departing from rome.

We spent about 100 euros a day for lodging, which included breakfast, ground transportation, museum admissions and supper, which included wine. Lunch was a lighter affair.....many bakeries have small sandwiches for sale. You will have a great time

Here is a partial budget for myself. I am visiting Italy in July this year. You can start listing all your expenses and see how your supposed budget compares. If you want to think of your trip planning as revolving around money, then planning your trip and planning your budget will be the same thing. My total cost so far is 2,468 US dollars. For good measure, I will add another $400, because I haven't finished my supposed budget because I may not think of everything at one sitting. So let's suppose I am spending $2,700 to 2,900 US dollars. For you and your sister, 2,800 x 2 = $5,600. You are right to assume you will spend between 5 and 7 thousand US dollars.

$1489.86 airplane tickets round trip, Detroit to Rome

210 Fruit, food markets, grocery stores, about 14 per day.
182 hostel in Florence

31.3 walking tour of Florence

17.81 Uffizi

12.95 Academia

16.19 Duomo

11.87 Bargello

44 Train ticket, Florence-Naples

99 Colosseum tour

36 Vatican tour

19 Train, Naples-Rome

116 Hostel in Naples

9 Archaeological Museum, Naples

9 Capodimonte
194 Hostel in Rome

99 Colosseum tour

15 Train, Naples to Pompei and Herculaneum
21 Pompeii/ Herculaneum
30 Walking tour, Jewish Ghetto area in Rome

36 Vatican museum

Lots of good advice above - read it twice!
My two cents:

1. Fly open-jaw.. But in my experience, they often cost a little more. Often, it works out to be easily worth it because the cost of jogging back to the starting point would cost much more.

2. Don't worry about food costs. You are not going to be in Italy that long and you will do fine eating out most nights. It's your first time to Europe and you don't want to spend any evenings inside cooking yourself dinner, it's neither practical nor fun, you'll waste time and money setting up a kitchen to do that successfully in a country where good, inexpensive restaurant food is literally EVERYWHERE. Be adventurous, not frugal - it will cost you the same. Instead of cooking that meal inside an Air BnB,

3. Stay in a hotel, not an Air BnB. Hotels are cheaper in Italy, and you will benefit from the amenities, desk staff suggestions, etc.. My rule is, if I"m in a place for less than five nights, HOTEL. if It's Five or more, I consider an Air BnB or similar. Usually I don't rent an apartment unless I'm spending a solid two weeks somewhere. I am doing that in Stockholm next month. I'm staying a week each in Oslo and Helsinki, and in hotels. For the reasons stated above.

4. As a lifelong traveler, I have learned that one must pay his dues. Don't expect to spend your trip searching for "off-the-beaten-path" the whole time, if the beaten path is actually unknown to you. So accept that you'll be a tourist for part of the time, in a big city...then explore! Cities are fascinating places and have many nooks and crannies to discover. You should include some time for a side jaunt to a smaller town, yes. Consider a day or overnight in Vicenza, or Padua or ... others will be more help here, but you will get more out of seeing the major stuff this time. "Assume you'll be back" is one of Rick Steve's mantras.

It's a tough call between making your trip comfortable and also not too comfortable that you insulate yourself from the outer world. You won't know those parameters until you are home from your first trip - but it's going to be a great adventure regardless!

....round trip from Rome is 700 to 900.......

Where are you seeing that fares for peak summer travel? That is unrealistically low. I don't think you could get that fare out of New York in July. You can get that fare now at end of March, 2018, and fare beyond April are not available. I don't think you will see those fares in July.

PS. Just checked Seattle to Venice, Rome Home - $730, RT Rome - $684 for mid March 2018. Earliest fares are available. Again it is consistent - only slightly more expensive for the open jaw ticket. Throw in the price of the train ticket and time and the open jaw becomes cheaper and more convenient. But you will not see these same fares come June/July.

Two years ago we got fares in the 900s flying round trip to Milan. And that was the lowest we could find, and it was in early JUNE. I think Frank's right.

Just did a little more checking. Today fares to Rome from Seattle for your dates this summer are in the range of $1700. About what I would expect. I would guess, and it is only a guess but I do have a fair amount of experience, that you should be able to get fares in the range 12 to 1400 later this year - Nov/Dec/Jan. Just start watching. But don't have unrealistic expectations.

The exception might be if we see an increase in terrorist's activities and the traveling public gets scared and cancels travel plans. Then you might see some discounting but that would be dice roll.

Thank you all for the suggestions. We preferably would not like to back track and will definitely be flying into Venice and out of Rome if the tickets are closer in price to RT. We assumed our tickets would be more than 900 dollars but we have been tracking the prices and comparing to help create a budget. Currently we have our budget plan as below:
Airfare: 2,000-2,500
Lodging: 1,200
Tickets:
Vatican City/Sistine Chapel: 32 Euros
Colosseum/Roman Forum: 32 Euros
Galleria dell'Accademia: 30 Euros
Cooking Class: 150 Euros
Gondola ride: 100 Euros
Vineyard: 100 Euros
Beach: 20 Euros
Ticket Total: 500 Euros
Transportation:
Train Tickets: 300 Euros
Taxi/Shuttle: 100 Euros
Buses: 100 Euros
Extra Spending Money: 600-1000

Grand Total: 6500-7000 (If we can get anything for less than expected awesome of course)

Perhaps I am looking for different hotels than others because I have been seeing many B&B's between 50-75 Euros a night which also had very high reviews. I haven't been able to find hotels with the same reviews and same price.

Some things to consider when booking your flights:
1) Start looking in October for June flights but you will, most likely, find the best fares in late Nov/Dec for your time frame.
2) We typically fly in one city and out of another to maximize our trips and have always found the price to be comparable to a same city return.
3) Not sure if you are in Seattle or Portland but if you are in Seattle, you might check the Vancouver Int'l airport. We have found international fares that were hundreds of dollars less than flying from Seattle (ie: we flew Van to London Heath then Paris to Van for $600 each on BA. It was $1,000 out of Seattle for same dates, similar times and airline(s)). The parking at Vancouver is right at the airport, easy to access and economically priced ($120 for 12 days.) Additionally, Vancouver is a small airport so lines reflected the airport size.
Happy travels!

Seems like you already have some great ideas!

Unless you have a serious list of must do's in Rome, and may will disagree with me, but IMHO, 3 nights in JUNE is enough in Rome, unless you plan on going to Vatican City, or visiting Ostia Antica for example.. then 4 is good for a relaxed pace. I would not spend 6 nights in Rome on my first 12 day trip to Italy ( Europe).

Again some may say no, but 2 nights is MORE than enough for Florence. I saw it by arriving from Rome in the mid-morning had one full day, stayed overnight near train station and toured the rest of the second day..took evening train back to Rome for dinner.

You seem to want to explore smaller towns and villages in Tuscany and relax...so don't pile up too much city time...you will return!

Your budget seems good.
Eating tip:
Many places in Italy offer free snacks/appetizers at cocktail time, this is a good way to keep costs down, If you are going to have a glass of wine or two anyway...in case you get tired of eating sandwiches on the run in piazzas etc LOL

This is the perfect safe way to carry cash and credit card....I recommend the type with straps NOT just a snap it will fall off...

https://www.amazon.com/Nude-Pocket-Travel-Safe-Wallet/dp/B000BQW8AS

I use this as my daily cash and credit card stash, and just reach for it when you need your cash or card, very easy and no one can run off with it as it is attached. I have NO cash passport or credit debit cards in my day bag! Just a few coins and 5 or 10 Euro note in my front pants pocket....it is all underneath my pants/shorts in a passport sized pouch with extra CC and cash, US money. That way you are not digging in your money pouch under your pants to buy a gelato! :)

Nothing ruins a first or any trip to Europe than being ripped off. Take RS advice and pack light do laundry!

OK we all do it differently but personally I think 4 nights is minimal for Rome, and 3 is minimal for Florence. There is a great deal to see in both, and they're very different cities. There are also day trips from both which are easy enough to do via public transit.

The thing about Rome and Florence is that all too often people who've said they didn't care for either didn't give them a fighting chance: they tried to cram too much into too little time, and spent all of that little time fighting the crowds at the top 5 biggest attractions. Same is probably true for Venice (which I haven't been back to for too many years now). If you can allow for the time not to just run from one thing to the next, and the space to poke into corners where less of the mob goes, you're apt to come away with a better impression.

The huge bonus for budget travelers in both cities? The churches. The majority are free, they're all different and many have wonderful and very valuable works of art by well-known Masters.

The cities are also good choices for first-timers as they're easy to travel between where out-of-the-way places can involve needing a car or juggling complex bus schedules. It's usually a good idea to get some experience under the belt before tackling those: learn how Italy "works." As Jtraveler said, assume you will be back!

That said, with your desire to see some smaller places I might consider flying into Rome and going directly to Florence for 5 nights with day trips to Lucca, Siena, and/or Fiesole; all by public transit. Then train to Orvieto for 2 nights, and train to Rome for the remaining 4. While none of this could be considered "off the beaten", it would be a nice mix of big and not-so-big places. You'd have to save Venice for the next time but heck, then you'd have another big reason to make that return trip!

The huge bonus for budget travelers in both cities? The churches. The
majority are free, they're all different and many have wonderful and
very valuable works of art by well-known Masters.

Definitely agree with Kathy. A lot of this thread has discussed cost, and no doubt Rome & Florence--done right--can give a seasoned or neophyte traveler wonderful bang for the buck.

In Florence--my goodness, what stands out for me was the Church of Santa Trinita on via Tornabuoni, just to the north of the Arno River. We wandered in during the day, and it was dark as hell. Then another person in there started feeding Euro coins into a machine to light the frescoes. Holy Toledo--right in front of me was one of my favorite paintings, 'Adoration Of The Shepherds' by Ghirlandaio. Incredible. And we found other free little nuggets like this that we wouldn't have found otherwise, but a grade-school buddy of mine had just finished teaching art in Florence on a 4-month sabbatical, and clued us in.

In Rome we had other help, a couple from Chicago that we had befriended in Salerno a couple years ago. They winter in Rome, which seemed odd until I found out that he was originally from Rome before he emigrated back in the late 1960's, also the reality that the temperatures in Chicago are much colder over those months. His wife keeps a notebook of all the off-the-beaten-track churches and museums, free or very cheap. There's simply so much there over different timespans, unlike Florence which is pretty much focused on the Renaissance art. We got a bus pass and traversed from one end of the city to the other--didn't take a taxi once.

This is just my 2 cents, take with grain of salt. You'll learn more about Italian food by eating in restaurants than taking the cooking class. I know cooking classes in italy are very popular with tourists, but honestly - you'll learn more about the cuisine of Italy by reading Fred Plotkin's "Italy for the Gourmet Traveler" ($23) and you'll pay less by seeking out his suggested places, often off the tourist map.

OK, JT--

I'll grant you that the 'art of cooking' is sometimes sorely lacking in cooking classes in Italy. I've taken three--in Taormina, Sicily at a restaurant that the chef opened up for us in the morning. We shopped at the tiny fish market and went to work. Hands on all the way, multiple pots and pans going.

That same trip, a winery tour and cooking class south of Florence in Greve-in-Chianti. Completely opposite--we were just viewers. But it was such a pleasant October afternoon out in the Tuscan countryside, with the windows and doors open, we sat and ate and shot the bull for hours and thoroughly enjoyed it.

The last one was two years ago in Salerno, at the B&B owner's apartment in town. Again, more viewing than anything else, but just watching her was a trip in itself, this seventy-something grandmother completely organized in her tiny kitchen while we stayed out of the way and sipped wine.

All of them were different--I didn't learn a ton in the viewing parts, but the overall experiences were priceless. Oh, one more thing. In all of these classes, my wife and I were the only ones there--they were private. I think that makes a big difference.

Please refer to above ("My two cents, take with grain of salt")

Thank you all again for the suggestions. It has been very helpful. I know for certain that we will be going to Rome and Florence. We are still working on Venice. The only reason we were going there was for the Grand Canal. The cooking class is a must and I hope it doesn't disappoint. We might just stay in Florence and Rome and make a day trip to Venice since we do not have any set itinerary there. We thought about visiting Siena, I heard it is very beautiful and Verona as well. This is my first time traveling outside of the country and really really want to be as prepared as possible. It's over a year away but I'm just too excited I guess. I originally wanted to go to Greece but we settled for Italy. My sister was not too fond of the Greece idea lol

I went to Greece for the first time this spring (RS tour that was terrific) and I kept saying - why did I wait so long. I went to Italy for the first time 9 years ago and have been back 4-5 times since then. Italy is better. Italy is much better. Italy is so much better. I look forward to going back to both . . .

Instead of cooking classes you might consider a food tour. I did one in the Testaccio neighbourhood some years ago and it was a eye opener. We visited 12 cafes, delis, food shops, market stalls and restaurants and learned about the history of the area as well as of the food. We ate extremely well and had demos of pizza and pasta making. It was run by eatingitaly.com and I believe they. also do them in Trastevere. Cost is €77 and you will not need to eat for the rest of the day!

I suggest the book "Eating Rome" by Elizabeth Minchilli whether or not you take a food tour there. While it includes restaurants, it's about the culture of eating (for example, Romans only eat two foods "to go"--gelato and pizza). She has a blog too.
Cynthia

I've reserved that book from the library, Cynthia. Thank you for the suggestion. I know the first time we went to Europe I read all I could about each region we were visiting....much regarding WWII and all non-fiction. I feel it added to the excitement of the trip. I'm betting the OP will agree