First trip to Italy. Help set # days in each City.

You all must be very excited about this trip! I know I would be and remember very fondly my first trip to Italy. There are a few things I think you should remember - basically a change of hotels/cities is a day lost. That's not a good thing. Train travel is frequent, relatively inexpensive, and comfortable. that's a good thing. The lake region in the north is very beautiful but my impression is that it's a place to relax (are the teenagers ok with that?) And this early in the trip? You pass through Florence, by train, on the way to Venice. Maybe stay there first? Sorry, I'd skip Pisa and fill my time in Florence. there's plenty to see, do and eat in Florence! That's a good thing. Venice in 3 nights is really pushing it. The Dolomites are really not that close and would take a full day away from your schedule. That's a bad thing. How about a 1/2 day trip to Padova? The teens might enjoy seeing the university especially if there are graduations happening. That's a good thing. I love Sorrento and spend about a week there every year. Yes, you have easy access to Capri, Amalfi Coast, and Pompeii. That's 3 day trips right there and you haven't seen Sorrento. Hmmm. Then there is Rome. Rome is huge and small at the same time. There are several centuries to explore, and most of it walk-able. That's a good thing. But you arrive on night 1 and depart after night 3 - that's really only 2 days and a bit more in Rome. That's a bad thing.

Please don't give up!!!! Can you, as a family, make the schedule? See if you can agree on priorities and work from there. Take into consideration jet lag, transit time, packing/unpacking. On the plane ride home have a family meeting to plan your return trip! You deserve it!

For me 3 nights in Milan is too much.
Why do you want to stay in Milan for so long.
1 night (1 and1/2day in Milan would be enough: one night at the Scala, the last supper, the cathedral and Milan’s historical centre
I would suggest you go in late spring or summer (until September) for Como, else too cold.
Venice: 2 nights (3 days)
Florence : 4 nights, especially if within this time you want to do day trips to Pisa and/or Siena.
Sorrento and Amalfi Coast ( coast might be a little dead as of November) - 5 nights
Rome: 5-6 nights

Thanks Robert,
Wilmington? Small world, I worked there for years.

The kids are very chill and love to explore. They don't need nonstop action.
I know Zermatt and Dolomites are far trips, but the wife is so wanting to see the mountains.
So are you saying 2 days in Venice is not enough?
If you were to cut out one city what would it be?
Also, I can add days on. I just want to see it all.

We did London and Paris a couple years ago and everyone did great with the jet lag.
We arrived in LHR super early and had a FULL day in London and saw Wicked.
So we have no problem arriving early and hit the ground running.

francoise,

Sorry, forgot to mention it will be an August summer trip. I know, I know. But my wife won't let me take the kids out of school.

3 days in Milan is just to have a place to stay. I am sure we can find a place cheaper outside the city.
From Milan we want to see the city 1 day, with a day trip to Zermatt and a day trip to Bellagio and Lake Cuomo.

Is there a better place to home base between Venice and Milan to see it all?

I think it looks like a pretty solid itinerary. Most of the day trips you mention can either be done or not done once you get there and decide if you have enough time in the base city itself.

Milan - yes Lake Como is a place to 'relax' but I've done it as a day trip from Milan and really enjoyed it. I've also visited it on a trip where I spent a few days, which was also nice, but a day trip from Milan works fine. Zermatt is a bit further but still doable if you don't mind the time on the train. But do check the weather and don't bother if it's going to be cloudy (which it often is). It also tends to cloud up later in the day so if you do go, plan to leave Milan as early as possible.

Venice - For many people three nights would be a minimum to just see Venice itself. An easy 'half' day trip might make sense (Padua, Vicenza) but getting all the way to the Dolomites is stretching it. You would certainly need a car for this part and of course a car is useless in Venice. I would rethink this part. If the Dolomites are a high priority for you perhaps skip something else and plan on at least one night somewhere up there - not necessarily in one of the mountain villages but at least Bolzano or somewhere close.

Florence - while Pisa is an easy day trip from Florence, with only two nights you only have one day in Florence itself. I would skip Pisa this trip. Florence is really much more interesting.

Sorrento - yes that's a good base for the places you mention. With 4 nights you can do one day trip to Amalfi and Positano, another to Capri, and a third to Pompeii and Naples. You can see Vesuvius from Naples and Pompeii. If you mean you want to take the trek up to the rim then you are going to shortchange your time in Naples and Pompeii. Some people feel they need a full day for each of them but if you are pretty fast moving you can do both in one day. These three day trips use up your three full days in Sorrento so Sorrento itself you only get time in after you return from your day trips but that might be enough. I love Sorrento.

Rome - three nights is a minimum. Any less and you'll just feel frustrated. Even with three days don't try to see everything. For example, I personally feel that seeing the coliseum from the outside it the highlight so if time is short don't bother going in. The forum is more interesting. If you feel you need to see the Vactican museums make sure you arrange a tour or you'll spend the whole three days waiting on line (only exaggerating a little here). The best part of Rome is the streets and squares. Make sure you have time to just wander, don't run from one site to the next.

Here's my photos of all these places - https://andiamo.zenfolio.com/

If I had to lose a city, it would probably be Milan.
I can pass on Milan, Bellagio/Cuomo and Zermatt.
And add a day to Venice, Florence.

With Sorrento is this a good plan for the day trips? or do I need another day here or Rome?
1. Capri
2. Amalfi/Positano
3. Vesuvius/Pompeii
4. Naples

I understand about wanting to see it all. It's a struggle for me on every trip even though I'm retired. But the thing is, you really need to decide what "see it all" means to you and your family. Is it sufficient to observe the Alps from the train, possibly with heavy rain sheeting down the windows, or do you want to have time to walk from one village to another with the peaks soaring around you--and a decent chance that will take place in decent weather? Basically, the more different places you go, the less sightseeing time you will have, because you will waste a lot of time on each move: checking out of the hotel, getting yourselves to the train station, riding the train, getting to the next hotel, checking in, figuring out where things are in the new city. Going more places means you see less, not more.

One-day trips to mountainous regions open you up to possible great disappointment. I've been on highly scenic railway trips on Switzerland and seen nothing but fog and rain out the window. It makes a lot more sense to pick one mountain region and spend enough time there that you have a decent chance of some clear weather.

I love Venice, but I think you're trying to do too much. If mountains are a must, I'd drop Venice and the quick visit to Zermatt and spend multiple days in the Dolomites, maybe in Ortisei. The Dolomites are beautiful, the food is Austrian-influenced, and costs will be a lot lower than they would be if you spent several days in Zermatt.

I originally planned on 2 days in Zermatt, but added a day to Milan and thought we might be able to train in early and come back same day. I understand about the weather. I could just bag it. So I am ok taking Milan off the schedule. Would coming in and out of FCO make sense then?

So with 14 to 17 days. How would you break it up for the following?

Dolomites
Venice
Florence
Rome
Sorrento

Another way to plan this is to ask each person, using a range of guidebooks, to make a list of 4 things in (from) each location that they would like to do.... Example: Milan - the Last Supper. Allow half a day for each activity. [You should check gallery schedules for when they are open/closed, and if reservations are needed.] You can try to schedule more per day, but start here. Then compare lists. Get on bahn.com and figure out how long it will take to get from place to place...Allow half a day for each change of place. Then redo your list of places and stop durations.

Have a great time planning and going!

I suggest popcorn or better yet gelato, while watching the RS Italy videos with the family. However, I do see your itinerary as pretty sound except you seem to be really shorting Florence.

Thanks. I am going to rework and post V2 😉

Keep in mind that if you think you have 2 days' worth of sights in a city, that means you need 3 nights there, not 2. It's usually recommended to set up your itinerary by the number of nights in each place (which ties in with your hotel bookings), then figure you have one less day in each spot. The extra hours you have on your arrival day are gravy.

“Venice, three nights, Venice and Dolomites.” Just do Venice, two days is a very short time for Venice.

So with 14 days, how would you break it up.
Fly into Venice, four nights
Train to Naples, five nights
Train to Rome, five nights.

Using your edited plan, I would write down each single day as a schedule and see how much transportation time is going to eat into your actual vacation time for each day. Italy is so enjoyable; you want to be walking & enjoying vs. being in a car or train for hours. I agree with others that I would skip Milan & just fly into Venice and go from there since you're trying to see the Amalfi coast in this trip, too. Or if you skipped the Amalfi Coast, would the rest of your trip go smoother?

" I also don’t need to stay city center and ok staying outside as long as it’s safe to save a little money." Staying city center saves you a lot of time while you're doing activities in that town, plus you will be more apt to enjoy the city in the evening vs. staying inside in your lodging.

As much as I really enjoyed our two times in the Dolomites, I would hesitate to recommend them for a first trip to Italy. There's just so much else on your itinerary that is more uniquely Italian. But, if you go up to the Dolomites, Ortesei is a nice area.

If you decide to rent a car, do a search on ZTL in this forum to understand & avoid the dreaded traffic tickets.

Unless there is some very compelling reason, I always stay in city center or a convenient and charming location. It's not negotiable. We are very much value conscious. We don't need fancy accommodations. Just safe, clean, please, decent bed, breakfast is awesome. But I want to be somewhere with the flavor and the charm of the location I traveled to. I live in a suburb. It's fine, but when I travel I want the a time saving location in a neighborhood that is interesting. I bring earplugs to handle any possible noise.

Sounds like mountains, Venice, and the Sorrento/Amalfi areas are the priorities. True? Maybe not art (Florence) as much as history and scenery? Don’t feel you must go somewhere unless you are really called to it. If Renaissance art is not your passion, the museums of Florence in hot August will wilt you.

If mountains are a priority, why not fly into Zurich and head to the Lauterbrunnen Valley for your first three nights? Then it is a long day to Venice whether by train or flight, but feasible. 3 nights minimum Venice, day trip to the Laguna Islands. Skip Milan entirely. Move on to Sorrento (good base) for your coastal time. 5 nights minimum to do everything on your list and realize it will be HOT so you have to pace yourselves. End up in Rome for at least 4 nights and fly out from there. That is 15 nights in the ground, no car required.

Yes mountains and scenery are more a priority then art and museums.

We originally thought about flying into Zurich and doing Zermatt.

I like the idea of skipping Milan and Florence. Will have to see how that works.

Although I don’t mind the idea of Tuscany.
Maybe a Tuscany base with day trip to Florence and Pisa.

Joe,
You said your wife wanted to see the mountains. On your way to Como, there are the Alps and plenty of mountains.
You can go to Aosta Mont-Blanc (Monte Bianco) or Moncernio or Lugano ( Direct train from Milan- 1 hour). Going up on Mont-Blanc is a real experience with an outstanding view and not very far from
Milan.

After 15 August, it should become a little quieter. July is also nice should it fit the children’s timetable?

Most of July is out for swim team.
I can do up to 3 weeks from 7/25 to labor day 9/7.

Now if you like the mountains, what kind of mountains do you like best, the Appenines ( 1200-2000m high)not far from Florence are also nice but not as high as the Alps (1500-4000 m) but to some extent more authentic with authentic farmers you can meet. The Alps are more spectacular but be at 3000 m high you may also be out of breath if you intend to do some trekking if you are not used to high mountains.

You know funny thing. Most people say slow down. Do more days in fewer cities and cut the travel days down. But looking at Rick Steves Italy Itinerary for 16 days, he has Rome, Florence, Venice, Cinque Terre, Siena, Sorrento, Naples, Pompeii, Amalfi, Milan, Lake Como. With like 2 nights in each location. Now that is whiplash.

I'll agree, Joe! While whirlwind trips work for some travelers, most of us wouldn't recommend that 16-day schedule. I'd be exhausted and sick of packing up and moving around halfway through it! It's also risky to have little-to-no flex time to work with should things not go according to plan. And then there's the problem of spending those few waking hours in city X running to and from the same overcrowded attractions as everyone else.... They're easier to digest if there's time for some breathing room between them. :O)

So how is your V2 plan coming along?

In regards to the above comment that the RS tours do, in fact, move at lightening pace! I move faster than many on this forum, but I've taken in varying strategies and philosophies and I do now to try to linger more and try to take in the vibe/emotion of a city. In regards to a RS tour and that pace, it's been highly planned and refined over time by experts. The sights have been honed down to "must sees" reflecting a variety of interests. The tour participants need to do very little in terms of research and logistics. They have all the tickets and reservations, in general, I would guess that there is little waiting in line or getting lost. It would be difficult for an independent traveler to move at that pace and cover as much. And, I'm a person that, in general, prefers independent travel.

V2 is coming. I am watching the RS videos now.
Doing some more research.

Just to clarify, the RS 16-day itinerary we're talking about isn't one of the escorted tours.

https://www.ricksteves.com/europe/italy/itinerary

Thanks Kathy.
That's exactly what I was referring.

Rick’s itineraries would work for some people, but it is helpful to factor in time to stop and breathe! It takes time to orient yourselves in every new place, time to figure out transportation, meals, etc. Time to do laundry now and then. What if it rains the ONE DAY to allocate to a place like Zermatt?

We will not stay 2 nights anywhere any more unless it is strictly a place to stay between loonngggg transfers or before a flight.

After watching some videos on the Dolomites, I have to go. So I am looking to try to add several nights stay there.

Any suggestions on a base town?

This trip is shaping up to be 16 nights. 😂

Hi Joe,

Since you’re saying mountains and scenery are a priority, I will share an itinerary we did several years ago to return to some favorites. Just sharing since it sounds like you’re still in the exploring stage of planning.

The first two locations are definitely in the beautiful outdoor scenery category. For a first trip, skip Grosseto.

Fly into Zurich and take the trains to Wengen, Switzerland- 4 nights
Train to Stresa, Italy - 2 nights
Train to Florence - 1 night
Bus to Siena - 2 nights
Bus to Grosseto - 2 nights
Train to Rome - 4 nights

For the Dolomites, The Val Gardena makes a good base. No car needed as the lodging in Ortisei, Santa Cristina, and Selva includes a bus pass for your stay. You would have to buy lift tickets or passes. Do try to give it 4 nights. It will be the centerpiece of your trip. July and August are high season so get reservations set by early next year.

If I had 17 nights and mountains and coastal scenery were a priority, but wanted a bit of an overview of Italy also this is what I'd do.

Fly into Venice - 2 nights (great place to get over jet lag, great intro to Italy, 2 nights and one full day are enough for a 'taste')

Rent car and drive to Dolomites - 3 nights (perhaps stop in Bassano del Grappa or Bolzano en route for an interesting lesser visited Italian city)

Drive to Siena - 3 nights - one day do a day trip to Florence by bus to see the highlights, the other full day visit a smaller Tuscan hill town, enjoy Siena early mornings and late afternoons/evening. En route from Dolomites to Siena you might be able to fit in a few hour stop on Lake Garda - the northern end is the most scenic, but Sirmione has a nice castle (but gets crowded).

Either drive or train to Sorrento (drop car at that point if driving). Sorrento 5 nights with day trips (by bus and/or ferry) to Amalfi, Positano, Ravello, Capri and to Naples and Pompeii by train.

Train to Rome - 4 nights Fly home from Rome

Isabel,

That looks great. I need to think look at that. I had something like that but different order.

If you see everything on your list in a two-week long trip, you'll hardly see each place.
For the length of your trip, I'd cut it down to 2 or 3 bases with side/day trips. But that's me; I can't stand fast travel.
I go on vacations to relax and get away from the pace of work, deadlines, projects, etc.

Since this will be your first trip to Italy, perhaps concentrate on the big three: Rome, Florence, Venice. If you've already booked travel into Milan then, sure, spend a little time there too. I've been to Italy many times over the past 25 years. You'll never see it all, so don't try in one visit.

Joe (and family) - see what you started!?! This is what I love most about the RS site - people really are willing to share their thoughts, suggestions and even warnings! And we all hope you have a wonderful trip to a country we all obviously love visiting. August? Drink lots of water. Adding more days? As many as you can. Skip Milan? No objections from me since I have deliberately avoided it - except the airport and train station.

From Sorrento there is a boat cruise that drops you off at Amalfi Town for a few hours then takes you to Positano for another few hours. Along the way the boat hugs the shore line as much as possible so you can see what's impossible to see from the bus. Including Sophia Loren's house and some beautiful grottoes and rock formations. it's a full day but my friends and I really enjoyed it. Capri? that's gonna be tricky because of the crowds. Don't plan on taking the last boat back to Sorrento, you may be stuck there for the night. We walked up to the emperor's palace (underwhelming) but the views along the way were gut wrenchingly beautiful. Pisa? I'd skip Pisa and do either Siena or Lucca for a day trip (although I now stay in Siena and do Florence as a day trip). Dolomites? I've stayed in Castelrotto several times. There are great day tours into the most interesting places and sites in the region. A very different Italian experience to say the least!

Yes, Wilmington - moved here 2 years ago and love it! Keep planning - it really can be a great part of the trip!

I would discourage anyone from spending his first two nights in Venice and then moving on. That's one full, non-jetlagged day in Venice, which pretty much assures that nearly all your wide-awake time will be spent mixing it up with throngs of other visitors in the most crowded spots in the city (which are among the most crowded in Europe). Give Venice at least one extra night or postpone it until a later trip. There is tons to see in Italy; Venice need not be part of your first trip. It was part of mine, but I didn't get all the way down to Rome until several years later. Go for better-quality visits to X cities rather than rushed, frustrating, visits to twice as many and a lot of time burned in transit.