First mother/daughter trip to Italy is next week! Desperate for help with trains system

Consider Geneva or Lyon.

If the worst comes to the worst, you simply go to a ticket window at the railway station in Florence, with a clearly written list of the travel legs you need for two persons, and you can reserve Florence to Verona to Milan there. You will pay full price, but it looks you are late enough to look on Trenitalia web site for discounted tickets. Do not wait to do this at the last time, you can go any time, as long as the exact dates you need are clearly written. Even a travel agency in Florence could do.

Remember that Aug. 15th is a big holiday in Italy so expect many services to be closed.

As for the missing link, the most natural choice would be a Swiss place like Geneva, being Switzerland sandwiched between Italy and France. But the two main railway lines to France (via Modane and via Brig) are partially or totally closed for renovation, Switzerland is expensive as hell, so I would look for a place where you can buy a cheap flight to Paris - also for this you are very late. Maybe Torino. Or choose any place in Europe with cheap flights, for example Munich. Or a cheap flight to a French destination like Bordeaux or Toulose when you can go to Paris by train. What you would really need is some mountain place to get a pause, as Firenze, Verona and Milan will be quite hot, but by reserving Milan you have somewhat locked yourself..

Somewhere in Switzerland sounds like the obvious choice if you want a stop between Milan and Paris.

The train app you want for Italy is the Trenitalia app. It is very easy to use. Both of you will want it on your phone, and you can just purchase your train tickets on it. Florence is “Firenze”. Milan is “Milano”.

For your location between Milan & Paris, would you consider just taking an Easy Jet flight of 90 minutes between the two cities for less than $50/ea.? If so, you could place your extra days at one of the Italian lakes, such as staying at Stresa on Lake Maggiore or at Lake Como - both relaxing!. OR, for more of a French feel to your trip, once you arrive at Paris, take the train to Chartres, Rouen, or Tours/Amboise in the Loire Valley to enjoy the chateaus. Chartres & Rouen have amazing night free light shows projected onto the face of the main cathedral. Everything I am suggesting is a short distance to try to maximize your “fun time”. I always reserve my hotels through Booking.com. Just filter on what you want, such as “8+ rating, hotel, less than a mile from the center” for instance.

The trains in France are the SNCF, but just buy a ticket at the station to keep it simple once you arrive.

Train tickets need to be validated if they don’t have a specific seat assignment tied to them, like an airplane reservation. To validate them, go into the app the morning before you board and validate them. It will show a green frame around the ticket code. Or, if you buy a paper ticket at the train station (or a bus ticket in a city), it’s a small machine to punch a timestamp on the ticket. Ask someone if you need help. The fines for unvalidated tickets are not how you want to spend your vacation money. : )

And finally, please give yourself a lot of grace between today and the end of your trip! This is such a special gift of time together with your daughter! Concentrate on making memories, laughing at the situations at times together, learning more about each other at this stage of your relationship, etc. I’ll include this trip report of my daughter traveling with me for her first experience in Europe, and it includes some things in Florence you might want to do. You can see it was a very special opportunity to just be together for a few weeks without any work, etc. interruptions.

https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/trip-reports/mother-adult-daughter-italy-trip-aug-sept-2022

Are you frazzled in the planning or are you frazzled over the hassle of changing destinations? Have you considered just training from Milan to Paris and spending from the 21st-27th in Paris? As planned now, you have just three nights in Paris. By extending that stay, you reduce the number of changes you have to make and you have solved the frazzle of deciding where to go and how to get there. Plus, it would be a good amount of time in Paris. I read that you have an airb&b locked in. Okay, no problem. Find yourself a hotel for the other nights. Anyway, I can tell you that the train from Milan to Paris is a long ride, but you have to consider it part of the experience.

Checking the Trenitalia website, a route from Milan to Paris would be leaving Milano Centrale at 8:00 by bus to Lausanne, changing there to a TGV to Paris Gare de Lyon. Arriving at 5:45 in the afternoon. Checking the SBB (Swiss train) website, you could leave Milano Centrale at 9:10 on a Eurocity train, changing in Zurich, arriving in Paris on the TGV train at 6:45 pm. That might be the better choice as the first route involves a coach bus. Oh, wait, that Eurocity train out of Milan is sold out on August 21. Nevertheless, check the SBB website for other options Milan to Paris.

Alternatively, going to Nice after Milan would break the journey to Paris. Each leg of that trip looks to be at least 5 hours on the train. Milan to Nice, and then Nice to Paris on another day. Remember that the beach is Nice is going to be rocky/pebbles. Any time on the Mediterranean is great.

Welcome Paula!

At this late date and your frazzled state I would not attempt to change your itinerary as you have it. Can you just head to Paris from Milan- cheap flight as noted above- and add some days to Paris w/day trips? You can never have enough time in Paris!
You've only got 3 nights to fill - which is just 2 full days of "being there". To me- not worth all the time and trouble to stop somewhere en route. Train from Milan to Paris will take a full day.

I do like Jean's suggsestion of visiting Stresa after Milan if you don't want more time in Paris. You can take the airport bus back to MXP to catch a cheap flight to Paris. (Unless flight is out of Linate- again didn't look)

Keep it simple is my advice.
You asked for advice on trains so changing your itinerary at this point is probably not something you need to attempt.
Assuming you have lodging booked in Florence as well as Verona and Milan?

For your Italian trains
Go to Trenitalia site and set up you account, this is easier to do on a desktop computer than on the app/device.
Download their easy to use app- and both of you should have it (again as noted above).
Purchase your tickets and print them out at home or make sure they are in your email. You can screenshot them as well so you know you will have access to them in case the internet is lousy at stations/on trains. (This is why I like to have hard copies- old school peace of mind)

Your station names are:
Firenze SM Novella
Verona Porta Nuova
Milano Centrale

You will be taking direct (no changes) fast trains-frecciarossa- those come with the mandatory seat selection and there is no need to validate as they are only for the train/time you picked.
I didn't look as I don't know your exact dates- but there may not even be any discounted tickets left so just purchase Base Rate tickets- that would be the same if you waited til in Italy purchase at the station.

Trenitalia Official site
https://www.trenitalia.com/content/tcom/en.html

rome2rio is a fun tool to check transit options but it is not completely accurate and you can't really purchase tix on that site.

Let us know if you need more help with anything

With some major train work going on in Switzerland this month, I'd go with Geneva for the in-between stop, I believe that will be okay to get to from Milan and then to Paris even with the train work. My other option would be go straight to Paris and spend more time, you can spend a week there easily.

Use Trenitalia to book the within Italy trains. The main advantage to booking ahead is you can save money on a lot of trains, you can book day of but it's the full rate day of.

If you want the least stressful option, I'd do Florence, Milan, Paris, less moving around is almost always less stressful.

Good luck--and calm down. In perusing all the lengthy advice already presented, I believe you may be doing too much by moving so much from place to place --- ESPECIALLY IF you are desperate about trains. Don't make your 1st (1st only if there is a 2nd) Euro trip a frightening hassle.

I have been to Europe 14 times (never enough) & am going to Roma next month. One of my travel insistences is TRAINS. Euro trains I've enjoyed in about 20 countries are inexpensive, clean, efficient. Plus the train websites and local info are quite understandable and usable. Certainly a fledgling attorney daughter can navigate them.

Calm down. Don't go in a panic, rather go in an ADVENTUROUS mood. I love Europe & part of that love is the train system. ab

I agree with Alan and others. I think you are trying to do too much. You could go from Milan to Geneva, that's 5 hours. Then from Geneva to Paris would be another 5 hours. I just checked and there seems to be rooms available, some at a reasonable rate.

As Alan suggested, take a deep breath and switch to adventure mode. The success of this trip will rely on attitude at least as much as planning. Geneva could be nice to just relax a little.

Be sure to pack light. My wife and I spent 14 days in Austria and Slovenia and we just had carryon sized luggage. With you moving so much, packing light and smart will make a huge difference.

I do not advice doing Geneva now as the railway line is closed for maintenance between Arona and Domodossola, so a section has to be travelled on bus, and I would be worried to send inexperienced travelers. The matter has been extensively discussed here.

I would like to help you with Milan to Paris via Switzerland in a scenic and relaxing way. It looks like you have 3 nights to spend on the way. Here is what I would suggest:

Option 1: train from Milano Centrale to Lugano, a short ride away. Overnight in Lugano and enjoy the lake.. Next day take the Gotthard Panorama Express train plus boat combination to Luzern. This involves a scenic train (in First Class) to Flüelen on the southern end of Vierwaldstättersee (aka Lake Lucerne). There you transfer to a boat for beautiful and relaxing 3-hour ride up the lake to Luzern. Stay 2 nights here (or, if you prefer, a lakeside town nearby.

https://www.sbb.ch/en/leisure-holidays/trains-boats/panorama-trains/gotthard-panorama-express.html

From Luzern there are trains to Paris in about 5 hours, with a single change at Basel. Buy the whole journey on SBB.ch to make it simple.

Option 2: Similar, but his option has you going to Locarno, another lakeside Swiss city, from Milan. Overnight here (there are hotels on the lake right close to the train station). I checked as see that this hotel, where we are booked in September, has a double room with lakeview available on 21 August.

https://www.hotelgeranio.ch/en/

Next day you take the Treno Gottardo train over the same tracks as the Gotthard Panorama train above, but in a less expensive 2d class. The train goes directly to Luzern with no changes. But if you like the boat option, you can leave the train at Flűelen and walk to the nearby boat dock for the ride up the lake to Luzern.

https://unterwegs.sob.ch/de/stories/ciao-ticino-en

Two nights in Luzern or nearby, then the train to Paris as above.

I hope this helps.

Fly to Paris from Milan.
Stay longer in Milan or at a lake near Milan. Or go to Paris earlier.
Or if you want to take the train, I think the fast train (TGV or Frecciarossa) stop in Torino, Modane, Chambery. I think the morning Frecciarossa stops at Bardonecchia as well. It's an 8 hour trip though, so I'd rather fly.

And now some help with trains.

But first, Verona. If you have not booked lodging there, look at Pepita Lodge, a good budget-friendly option on the tree-lined Main Street between the train station and Piazza Brá. It is outside the city walls (which makes it less expensive) but a short walk away (5 minutes). It appears they have 1 room left for your dates.

http://www.pepitalodge.it/en/

With Verona booked, you can go ahead and buy train tickets. From Florence to Verona and Verona to Milan, you take high-speed trains and do not need to worry about “validation” which has been mentioned above. I suggest using Italo, a private train company with only fast trains between major cities, as the website is more user-friendly than Trenitalia. Also they have budget-friendly prices, including “2 for 1” pricing on some trains.

https://www.italotreno.com/en

I like to buy these tickets at home in advance, so I can print out a paper copy of the tickets as well as have a digital copy on my phone. (I have already done this for some of our September trains in Italy, and will be buying the rest later today).

If you decide to take my suggestion above to head to Luzern as your Switzerland stop on your way to Paris, I suggest you use the Swiss rail site to buy Milano Centrale to Lugano or Locarno, then from there to Luzern, and from Luzern to Paris.

https://www.sbb.ch/en

Three separate transactions, all can be done as a “guest” if you don’t want to creat a SwissPass account. Again, I like to print out the ticket at home as well as keep a digital copy (or screenshot thereof) on my phone.

Good luck and come back with any questions. It will not seem so difficult once you get started. I sounds like a great trip you have planned, and a good way to celebrate her completion of law school and the bar exam. I know all too well how stressful that is. I think I spent the first couple of days after the bar exam in bed with a migraine!!!

Why are people suggesting flying from Milan to Paris? Or going the long way via Geneva? There are no train construction issues on the route Lola suggests, over the Gotthard Pass. There ARE issues on the train route between Milan and Geneva.

Also, the OP asked about going by train through Switzerland—- that is what they want to do. They have left time in their schedule to do that. They already have firm paid reservations in Milan and Paris and probably can’t add time to either one without a hassle.

And besides, France officially discourages short- haul flights and promotes low- carbon train transport instead. They have actually banned short flights within France, like Lyon to Paris. While a flight from Milan is not in that category, the philosophy still should be respected.

OP asked for “any suggestions “

Once the OP returns to respond to all this advice given we’ll know what OP wants to do

The trains are easy. You can do it, particularly with all the specifics above^^
If budget is of any concern and you aren't set on Switzerland, DON'T choose Switzerland. Everythibg including food is sooooo expensive.
All Italians vacation around Aug 15 (Assumption Day), more than Christmas, so if you can go where they aren't going it would help.

I am so thankful for all the advice and input. You guys are amazing! I wish I had found this forum back in May when I booked my flights and started planning this trip! I can only imagine how many sleepless nights I would have saved myself!
We originally wanted to go to Lucerne and actually booked an airbnb, but I backed out when I could not figure out how to get from Lucerne to Paris on the 24th (again wish I would have known about this forum)
I talked to my daughter and told her about all the suggestions and here is what we have decided to do so far (whoever said to stick with close to our original plan in order to reduce stress was right.. she started panicking when I suggested we make any major changes)
14-18 Florence
18-21 Verona
20-21 Milan (this is one we can’t change)
21-24 Nice
24-27 Paris (this is one we can’t change)
Nice will give her some beach time and seems to break up the trip to Paris.
We started looking at trains and now I’m wondering if a Europass would work for us? If I’m reading it right we could use a 5 day pass and all these places would work for it. She’s 25 so she’s still considered a youth.
Do you guys think a europass would help us or am I missing something? Will it go to the cities we need or do they only give you limited time choices etc with those kind of passes?
We are going to work on this all day until it’s completed tours and all. I didn’t want to stress her but when I mentioned there were options left .. I could tell she was on high alert. I want to just finalized the trains, and as many tours as we can today and be done.
I’m thinking only one or two in Florence, one in Verona,(none in Milan) one in nice, and one or two in Paris. As we are going to several locations I don’t want to overbook .. Im not sure but it seems like we will have a great time just walking around and enjoying the little cafes, architecture and each other etc.
Trying to take deep breaths and not let her feed off my stress.. I’m ready to get passed this craziness I’ve gotten myself into and start enjoying the fact that I’m about to go on a trip of a lifetime with my daughter to celebrate this wonderful new phase of her life she’s about to step into!
Thank you for all your help and for any suggestions you might still have for us!

Be very very careful about a Eurail Pass. The days when you could just hop on the next train are over, at least as far as the “fast” trains in France and Italy.. Those will require reservations in Italy and in France. The reservations cost extra and are limited in number. I have lost count of how many posts we have seen here from people frustrated or even in a panic because they were unable to get necessary reservations for trains with their Eurail pass.

I have read all of your post several times and was in tears so many times I can’t count.. Not because of stress but because of how gracious you all have been with your knowledge of traveling and your time. You all have spent so much time giving me such detailed advice and I want you to know it has really really helped me! I watched your links and have decided to make Switzerland a new bucket list! If I could push the undo button I would go back and make a stop at one of the beautiful lakes in Switzerland a must! I have also listened to your advice and decided we are going with a carryon and personal bag to help keep the trip feeling light and not get stressed pulling large bags through train stations and airports. I read Jeans link to the beautiful account of her trip with her daughter and it made me resolve to get this planning mess done today and get on with enjoying my time with my daughter!
If I can get the trains down I will start focusing on the fun tours like bike tours, cooking classes, etc. etc.
If anyone has been on a tour that really Wow’d them in any of the cities we are going to I’d love to hear about them. Trains and tours here I come! :)

Thank you Sasha! When we added up the difference in price it was only going to possibly save us 50-100 if that. With your word of caution I think we will go directly and buy the individual ones we need.
Thank you!!

Also, is your daughter aware that the beach at Nice is pebbles, not sand?

https://www.riviera-beaches.com/Nice/Information.html#:~:text=Galets,small%20stones%20are%20called%20galets.

I just want to make you aware so she is not disappointed.

Paula, I just hope you'll come back to the forum after your trip and let us know how your trip went!

She knows about the pebble beach. We saw someone on a YouTube today that said the sound of the ocean washing over the pebbles is really cool and different if you’ve never been. So she’s excited to experience it .. fingers crossed.

Safe travels!

When in Nice, you can easily find beaches that are dreamy. The train that hugs the coast from Nice to the west goes to Monte Carlo, Cannes, and St. Tropez!

There is no rail service to St.-Tropez. Part of the trip needs to be by bus, ferry or car/taxi.

Paula, I have not yet been to Italy, first trip booked for October. However, I can tell you that my daughter and I spent two weeks in Switzerland in 2019 and it was the best trip we have ever taken. It was never on my bucket list, but once we started researching what turned out to be an 8 day trip turned into two weeks. Be sure to put it on yours!
Best of luck in finalizing the details of your trip. It's going to be amazing...wonderful memories made that will warm your hearts when you look back on them.

Roberto, the direct Milan to Paris train is now blocked due to a landslide in French territory; the route will open again mid 2025. I second the idea of flying to Paris as both the Modane and Arona closures make traveling by train too difficult.

Also, is your daughter aware that the beach at Nice is pebbles, not sand?

Sasha makes a good point. When we were on a high school trip in 1966, one of our stops was Nice. Being from Georgia, we were used to the sandy beaches of Daytona and the Florida gulf.

The pebbled beach of Nice was an eye opener. We were also used to warm Gulf Stream waters and the chilly water temps of the Mediterranean was unexpected. To compound matters, both my new girlfriend and I had lost so much weight on the trip we were having trouble keeping our bathing suits from falling off! BTW, that new girlfriend and I celebrate our 54th wedding anniversary today.

”I am on a budget so I really can’t afford to make anymore mistakes.”

Switzerland is an expensive country! Lodging, trains, meals will all be more expensive. My husband & I usually ate the hotel breakfast and then just the cheapest pizza or items from the grocery store there with just one nicer meal during the whole time there. You mentioned wanting beautiful lakes. Lake Como or Lake Maggiore in Italy that are close to Milan will both be less expensive.

Here are a couple of quick FYIs for new American travelers to Europe, things that are different from what we're used to:
- Dates are written Day/Month/Year
- Calendars start the week on Monday
- Train times are listed in 24-hour clock time

Have a wonderful trip!

Thank you! I noticed that sometimes when I’m trying book at train and say for example, I search for August 24th it will show trains for the 23rd.. but if I search for the 25th it will show for the 24th. It especially did that when I was initially trying for trains in Switzerland.
I just stopped at that point because I felt like I met he doing something wrong.

• Dates are written Day/Month/Year

An entire Hercule Poirot mystery hinged on an American signing a hotel register month/day/year.