First time to Italy with a senior and kids

Does this cruise end in Rome as well?

What cities exactly were you thinking of visiting? There are a lot, you know. Venice, Florence, and Rome are the typical must-sees for a first time to Italy, along with one or two other places depending on the length of the trip and interests. A 2 week trip could easily cover 4 different destinations at a semi relaxed pace.

I would avoid Cinque Terre and many hill towns if there is a problem with walking.

I think you have a hand full. The big advantage to the cruise is that you only unpack once and your transportation is covered. Granted you are only spending one day in each port but you can be very efficient seeing these ports with good advance planning. Also the ship provides some other options. If you mother is tried or wants to rest she do can stay on board for half day and you and the kids can go else where. I don't know why you would not dock at Livorno.

I would go into Rome three days early to deal with jet lag, see Rome, with an easy train ride to Civit.... to board the ship. Then a couple days after wards, maybe in Rome or Florence, and then home. You might consider flying into Rome and home from Florence or even Milan.

Given the range of ages, etc., I think the cruise is a good option.

We definitely want to visit the three major cities such as Venice, Florence, and Rome. Since our cruise leaves end of October, I had read that sometimes due to the fall weather the cruise ship has to skip Livorno, which is the port to visit Florence. I have always heard that the cruise is better for the seniors, but I can't see how it is easy if you are rushed to see the sight all day including the hustle bustle of getting from the port to the city?
My thought is to fly into Munich, visit for three days, train to Venice, stay for two days, train to Florence, stay for two days, and train to Rome for cruise departure and fly out of Rome. Is that too much? Or is our family better off just rent a van and drive to different cities on our own? Which is easier?

Why Munich?

My suggestion would be to fly directly into Venice. Stay 3 nights in both Venice and Florence, and stay a couple days in Rome as well. Trying to manage so many people of varying ages, you're better off simplifying this trip as much as possible, and those places have more than enough to keep the whole family busy.

I was hoping to add another country to our schedule thus thinking of Munich. Would it be easier for us to rent a car rather than taking trains and buses? Are these cities hard to drive with van that seats six? I recall the streets are narrow in Italy.

Forget Munich for this trip! You will need all of that second week before the cruise just to see the main three cities in Italy! Fly open jaw (I don't know what city you live in). The most efficient routing for your trip, with the cruise departing from Rome, would be: Fly into Venice. Spend three nights in Venice. Venice is flat and walkable, thus easy for your Mom and for you with the kids. TRAIN to Florence. Spend 4 nights in Florence. From Florence, if you like, you could do a day-trip, either to Siena or a wine tour via private guide that will give everyone a nice view of Tuscany. Florence is also FLAT, and there are lots of places to sit in between piazzas. This is important when traveling with a senior! After Florence, train to Rome. Spend several days in Rome before your cruise. Fly home from Rome.

I see absolutely no benefit to renting a car. Cars are a Royal Pain in any of the cities! All of these cities have ZTL zones, which means you cannot drive within those zones unless you are a resident. If you accidentally enter a ZTL you will be fined, and you WILL pay, as they will send the bill to the car rental agency who will put it on your credit card. This is standard.

You've got your hands full taking both a Senior Mom as well as a couple of little ones, so don't add unnecessary stress by adding another country. Save Germany for another trip, and use two full weeks there!

You don't say where the cruise ends, I presume back in Rome. According to viamichelin.com Rome to Munich driving is:

Costs: 175.04 € with a Petrol vehicle. Toll 57.70 € | Petrol 108.64 € | Road tax 8.7 €

Time 09h38 with 08h48 on motorways
Distance 931 km with 911 km on motorways

You cannot do this in one day. I would recomend flying from Rome to Munich, and getting an "open jaw" flight so you return from Munich. Most European cities require walking, and restrict cars in the city centre (plus have limited parking). Munich is no exception.

You have 7 days after your cruise. If you need to go by car, you could tour 2-3 smaller places in Northern Italy, or you could fly to Munich, pick up a car there and visit 2-3 smaller places in Bavaria.
But, you also need to think of making the trip good for the three kids under 10.

Driving is a bad idea. You cant drive into Venice at all. Other cities (particularly Florence) have entire areas called ZTL's near the historical centers where you can only drive IF you are a resident. All other vehicles are are photographed and sent huge fines in the mail several months later for each time you enter the ZTL. Parking is super expensive. Gas is expensive. Roads have tolls. All drivers must have an International Drivers Permit.

Whereas trains will take you from city center to city center at 300 miles per hour, and are inexpensive. To reduce the cost even more you could buy tickets in advance for a huge discount, although you cant make changes so you better know exactly where you want to go and when.

My thought is to fly into Munich, visit for three days, train to Venice, stay for two days, train to Florence, stay for two days, and train to Rome for cruise departure and fly out of Rome. Is that too much?

With a large group, including someone who is not a good walker, this is a recipe for misery. A group only moves at the speed of its slowest member, and the larger the group, the slower it moves. You'll spend lots of time getting between cities and not have a lot of time to see them. Remember that two nights in a city equals only 1 full day, so two days means 3 nights.

I was hoping to add another country to our schedule thus thinking of Munich.

Again, given your group size and mobility restrictions, adding countries is not the way to go. With only two weeks, focus on Italy and actually enjoy the trip, instead of making it an endurance test.

Would it be easier for us to rent a car rather than taking trains and buses? Are these cities hard to drive with van that seats six? I recall the streets are narrow in Italy.

The narrow streets are only a small part of the problem.

1. The vehicle will not only have to seat 6, but also have space for everyone's luggage. Such a vehicle will be large and expensive, or you'll have to rent two vehicles.

2. Italian cities have ZTL's (Zono Traffico Limitato) - areas where cars cannot enter. These areas are all around the center. If you enter, even by accident, you get a fee from your car rental company for handing over your information to the ticketing agency, and then you get the actual ticket (and it's expensive). You get these fines and tickets months after your trip. And if you've gotten lost and entered the ZTL 3 times in 10 minutes, you get 3 fines.

3. To avoid the ZTL, you have to park on the outskirts and take a bus or taxi in. So, a car confers no advantage when visiting a large city - you can't just drive up to your hotel. You can just as easily get off the train and take a bus or taxi right to the hotel door, with no risk of a fine (taxis and local buses are allowed to enter the ZTL without restriction).

4. Venice allows no cars at all; you MUST park on the outskirts (potentially very pricey) and take boats to get around.

5. Gas, tolls, and parking are all expensive in Italy.

So, the idea of a cruise supplemented by some time on land is good, or else a land tour on your own. Which ever way you do it, be sure to allow enough time in each place to see it at a slow pace. On a day off the ship, you're with a tourguide (either the ship's tour or one you book yourself), so you can see much more, since they know where they're going. When you're on your own, everything is harder and takes longer. Ricks' Italy book will tell you all that you need to know about seeing these places yourself, but you can't duplicate a fast pace on your own.

I see Donna and Angela were posting while I was composing my reply, and we're all saying similar things. So I'll just clarify that to find affordable "open jaw" airfares (into one city and out of another), use the "multi city" function on Kayak or airline websites. Don't look for two one-ways, as that's much more expensive.

A word about Venice being flat: it is if you don't count the hundreds of little raised bridges that go over the canals. Some are only a dozen or so steps up and then down the other side. But some can be daunting. So, prepare to move slowly in Venice.

What a wonderful plan! From personal experience, I can guarantee you these will be memories you treasure. It will be well worth the challenges and the effort.

A few comments…

Having traveled with a senior with walking challenges, as well with as little ones, I would have suggested two cities in two weeks – one week per city, one major scheduled activity per day as a group, and then some rest time if necessary, scheduling other activities on an ad hoc basis as energy permits. So obviously, my pace would be much slower than what you're considering. So let me instead just make a few comments about the major cities you're planning.

Although Venice is flat, as noted above, it is laced with bridges that require walking up and down a slope. Also, once you leave the major canals, you will be walking. There is no ground transportation, and although there are water taxis, they are speedboats that would be difficult to get into if one is not agile. So get lodging as near a vaporetto stop as possible, and try to make sure there are no bridges between the vaporetto stop and your lodging. I would also book lodging as close as possible to the sites of primary interest. Also, make sure there's an elevator – Most buildings don't have them. Finally, depending on how young your children are, keep in mind that there are no barriers along the canals. Packing very light is particularly important in Venice because you have to carry your luggage from the vaporetto stop to the hotel.

A general comment about elevators in Italy – get very specific details. Many buildings that say they have an elevator, also have a flight of stairs into the building, or from the lobby to the elevator, or from the top of the elevator to some of the rooms. A modern, American-style chain hotel will probably offer the most predictable elevators.

Florence is also flat, as noted above. However the walking surfaces are really uneven and in the old part of the city the sidewalks are very narrow. So again, I would suggest identifying the sites of major interest and staying as close to them as possible.

Rome will probably be the easiest city for your mother to walk in, although it is large.

I would plan on using a fair number of taxis in both Florence and Rome so that you can save walking energy for actual touring.

There is a company I've used for day tours in all three cities that might be able to help you with seeing the sights. It is Context Travel, And I know they will plan custom day tours and they specifically have family-friendly tours. I have used them in many cities and in different countries, and I've only had great experiences with them. Also their customer service in both the US and in Italy is really good. I'd suggest taking a look at their website.

I took my elderly mother to Italy and wasn't dragging kids along -- We spent 6 nights in FLorence, one in Siena and a week in Rome. It was tough on her but we paced things to work for her and used cabs a lot. She got to see all those Michelangelos she has always dreamed of and other once in a lifetime sights. I remember a wonderful dinner in a cellar in Florence where we both got tipsy and had a wild cab ride back to the hotel. I remember having a glass of wine and plate of pasta in front of the Pantheon in Rome at dusk. She is gone now, these remain among my fondest memories of her in her later days.

I think rushing from city to city like this is a recipe for despair. Travel is tiring and two nights in a place gives you one day. I can't imagine why you are adding Munich into this mix unless you have relatives there or something. Spend at least 3 nights in Venice and at least 3 nights in Florence (which won't let you more than sample a couple of things -- it is a place that easily pays back a week or two) and at least 4 nights in Rome. Your mother will be exhausted and miserable if pushed through this punishing schedule -- the one I suggest is frankly pretty rushed too.

Note that every restroom in Italy is either up a steep flight of stairs or down a steep flight of stairs -- this was a real struggle for us. And hotels often have stairs to reach the level where the elevator begins. Museums have elevators sometimes only for the elderly or disabled but we found several times that these were not working. My mother was a trooper but the stairs were a real challenge.

From your message, I can't tell if you want to add a land tour to the cruise, or ditch the cruise and just do a land tour. With a senior, I would strongly suggest keeping the cruise. That is going to be the easiest way for her to see things, if you pick the right shore excursions – the ones that hit her highlights. The ship's shore excursions are well designed to deliver what they promise. They won't provide hours for wandering casually, but they will allow her to check things off the bucket list that you mention. I would suggest using the shore excursions, rather than trying to do it yourself. That will save your mother's energy – The cruise line will deal with the logistics and get her places as efficiently as possible, so she won't be wasting walking time.

A tired senior who is not too steady on her feet can be a recipe for disaster. So I would suggest doing whatever you can to save your mother's energy, which in my experience, meant traveling in a very different manner than I would on my own.

The train is an easy choice between Italy and Munich. Because we don't have a train system in most of the midwest, when they were younger my kids found the train pretty fascinating. It's also a chance to rest your feet and get a little sleep. Picnicing on the train is fun and saves a little money.

Not sure if cruise is locked in or not from your post... If she only wants to see Italy, I would not do that from a cruise.

If you can swing it, I would recommend at least 3-4 days pre-cruise, then at least 3-4 days after cruise. Preferably longer but you may only have 2 weeks total...

We did 4 days Munich, then headed to Barcelona for a 7 night Western Med, then to Italy for a week last summer. The cruise was a nice break in the middle -but we only went off the ship like 3 days? We did the easier ports, did not get off for Rome (we did it after), and the Florence stop, we went to CT (Florence is so far!), we did Pompeii but I can't see my 65 year old parents who are not great walkers on that day making it at all....they could have done Nice probably,.... so for us the cruise was pretty relaxing, no super long days.

What are the main things your mom wants to see? If it's the major things in Italy, then cruise would not be my first choice (and I really like cruises) - you would be better off to go typical, Rome/Florence/Venice route, with some smaller town sprinkled in over 2 weeks. The "day-trips" from cruises, if you are trying to Rome, Florence, etc... sound horrid to me, loooong day, rushing around. Especially with kids and older folks. The smaller day trips were fine though.

If you want to see two cities (ex: Rome, and Venice), plus some other places, then do one before cruise for 3-4 days, and the other after for 3-4 days and that's it.

So I guess it really depends what sites are your must sees.

Kim

Thank you all for your helpful advise! I think I know what to do now. Can anyone recommend good websites to find apartments to stay in Venice, Florence, and Rome for six that is also pretty centrally located?

Don't be surprised if you have to use some toilets in Italy that have No seats. Figure out now how you will navigate those.

Best to train travel First Class reservations with a senior and family with children. Many seniors and families with children in First Class. More space for people and luggage. Nicer cars and seats. Seats are arranged in suites of four seats flanking a table.

Long distance buses in Italy are very nice. When you buy tickets, ask if the bus will stop at a rest stop off the highway. Toilets on the bus may be under the floorboards. But routes and rest stops are beautiful, spacious, clean, busy. Drivers may allow you only enough time to use the toilets.

In cities, taxis are easier than buses to transport familes and seniors.

Here was where we stayed in Rome and Venice. look on vrbo.com. I always look for ones with multiple good reviews. We were only 4 but I think these places may have slept 6.

Rome:
http://www.vrbo.com/305032

Venice:
http://www.homeaway.co.uk/p815492

I think the apartment I rented twice in Florence may work for your family: VRBO 68776. Take a look. I always use either VRBO or Homeaway. Don't trust Airbnb yet.

I love Angie and Donna's ideas, and agree that the time it would take to get to Munich is just not worth it. Going for the sake of setting foot in another country is not the best idea. I really recommend the cruise for both your mom and kids. It is wonderful to know where you are having breakfast and dinner every day, and seeing so many places while unpacking only once. It takes a lot of the stress out of travel, if you don't try to do too much in a day. There are tours in every port geared toward seniors or people who cannot move fast or manage uneven ground. They would be good for small children, too, although I don't imagine you would have to go on all the same tours as your mom. By spending time in Florence before the cruise, you could take a trip to Pisa or Lucca from Livorno. Your tours can be private or ship's excursions, but my favorite are private. Really, they don't cost any more, and can move at your pace.

Jan

Me too Donna! Trying airbnb for first time this summer - there was literally nothing on vrbo or homeaway for Glasgow, and we have a week there while kid is in soccer! The place got 15 5 star reviews, so.. hoping for the best!

Kim