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First Time Italy Visit - What's Practical?

Is it practical to fly into Rome (more flights to here than Florence for us), rent a car or take train to Tuscany and use Tuscany as a base for 9-10 days with multiple day trips to Rome and Florence? We don't want to feel like we are constantly driving, and I don't have a great sense of how the drive REALLY is between these areas. If not advised, in what 2 cities would you recommend hotels which would enable us to visit these 3 areas? We would likely need to fly back out of Rome on a Sunday morning flight.

Posted by
32171 posts

Have you considered using open-jaw flights, perhaps inbound Florence and outbound Rome? That would be the most efficient method.

I would not suggest staying in one place and making "multiple day trips to Rome and Florence". You'll waste an incredible amount of time with that approach. Also (and perhaps more importantly), using a car for your entire trip is not the most efficient travel method, as you'll waste a lot of time with that as well. The trip from Florence to Rome is 90 minutes by high speed Freccia train (which travels at up to 300 km/h), which no car can match.

There are some potentially expensive "caveats" to be aware of, both when using trains and other public transit and rental cars. You'll need to be aware of those! If you need more information, post another note. I'd also suggest packing along a copy of the Italy guidebook, as that has an enormous amount of information and will help you to plan touring to get as much out of the trip as possible.

It would help to have more information about your trip. For example, how long will it be, where are you flying from, etc. One method you could consider......

  • Flight Inbound Florence
  • Florence, touring and day trips
  • Bus to Siena
  • Siena - rent car to tour hill towns (Siena is not especially good for parking, so best to choose a hotel that provides parking)
  • Return car and train to Rome
  • Rome, touring and day trips.

Good luck with your planning!

Posted by
1743 posts

Florence (which is in Tuscany so not separate from Tuscany -- in fact, it's the capital) is 3 1/2 hours by car from Rome, but about 1 1/2 hours by high-speed train.

So if you stay somewhere in Tuscany between Rome and Florence, you will spend more time traveling than if you stay in Rome or Florence.

Still, do you want to spend 3 hours on a train each day you visit one of those cities from the other one? They each deserve multiple days.

I suggest you stay head to Florence for the first 3 nights, spend the last 4 nights in Rome, and any additional nights you have in between could be spent in another Tuscan location (maybe Siena or a smaller hilltown, depending on what you want to do with your evenings). Then you'll wake up in Rome the morning of your departing flight.

Posted by
1394 posts

I skipped Rome on my first trip, flew into Florence, did day trip to Pisa, took train to Varenna, took train to Venice ((rented a car for 2 days into Slovenia)) and came back and did 2 days in Venice. flew out of Venice, 2 nights in each location. 8 nights total in Europe, quite doable, train is lovely and restful. you could fly into Rome and work your way across to Venice. about same schedule we did, doing Rome instead of Slovenia

Posted by
41 posts

Thanks everyone! This is only our 2nd trip to Europe and we try to avoid tours and tourist traps, so trying to plan/schedule everything on our own. Prefer trains to renting a car (this is how we did London/Paris last year), but I wasn't sure this was as do-able in this area. We would be traveling in early April. We will likely fly out of Cincinnati or Dayton, Ohio.

Posted by
198 posts

Hi mediaohio,

8 of us drove in Rome and Florence, though lots of fun, it was also a lot of work. Heavy traffic (both vehicles and pedestrians, and of course jaywalkers), lots of one way streets or too-narrow streets to drive through because we had a minivan. One of us drove while the other navigated. We didn't trust ourselves to park legally because signs were sometimes confusing, so we used parking structures, but sometimes their operating hours didn't match our schedules.

One of our friends drove in Rome and Florence last year and was fined or charged for driving through some tourist zone. Please look into this as I do not have all the details. My friend was too upset to explain clearly.

But despite all the challenges, I do agree that sometimes driving in Europe makes sense in regards to personal plans, itinerary, convenience, etc. All 8 of us are glad we drove. We saw some awesome sights, had some unforgettable experiences and could stop when we wanted, esp. to feed those kids!

Have a great trip!

Posted by
1929 posts

First trip abroad five years ago we flew in and out of Rome. Flew immediately to Catania in Sicily, transport to Taormina, where we stayed 4 nights. Then plane to Florence--through Rome--4 nights there, then Freccia train to Rome, 2 nights there & flew out of Rome back to Chicago. Great trip, but not very efficient. And FYI--my experiences from three times at Rome Fiumicino airport during our trip ranged from barely tolerable to horrific. Give yourself extra time there unless you are fluent in Italian.

This last March we flew into nonstop Chicago to Paris, stayed there, train to Lucerne, stayed there, then train through the Alps to Florence through Milan, stayed there 5 nights, then train to Salerno, stayed 5 nights, did day trips, flew out of Naples to Munich, then to Chicago. Much more efficient, did not feel rushed, but this trip was 17 nights instead of 11 like our first trip.

Practicality is in the eye of the beholder. If you are not a car nut and love the challenge of driving, take the train within Italy. Trenitalia is not quite as on top of things as the SBB Swiss rail system, but it's plenty good, tons better and much less expensive than anything we have here in the States. A pleasure.

From Ohio (I'm assuming from your handle) you won't get any nonstops into Milan, Florence or Rome, so you might as well shop price. Cleveland to Rome is probably your cheapest best bet if you're close by.

Only two places? To me, it has to be Rome & Florence. If you can save on the round trip rather than open-jaw, it's not the worst thing to upon arrival take the train to Florence (90 minutes) and base there for 4-5 days. Day trips via train or bus to Fiesole, Lucca, Pisa, Siena are doable and easy, as are guided private tours of the Tuscan hills. Then return to Rome for the balance of the trip, enjoy yourself and fly out that Sunday morning because it's advisable to be in Rome the night before your flight.

Enjoy your planning!

Posted by
15041 posts

If you fly out of Cincinnati (CVG), Delta has a non stop to Paris Charles De Gaulle (CDG), which is also a Delta hub.

Delta is partner with AirFrance (through the Sky Team alliance) and Air France has 5 or 6 daily pair flights to Florence (FLR) and obviously plenty to Rome (FCO).

So the first option I would check, if I were you, is to fly with a Delta ticket the following itinerary:

Going: CVG > CDG > FLR (with the CDG-FLR segment operated by AirFrance)
Return: FCO > CDG (or any other Delta hub, like JFK or ATL) > CVG

If the above option is too expensive, then your second option would be to fly in and out of FCO. In that case, on the day of arrival at FCO, you would go straight from the airport station to Florence by train. Then you would return to Rome, by train, for the last few nights of your stay, as suggested above.

The first flight option I gave you might be a bit more expensive, but you would save one train trip fare, which is 45€ per person one way (and up depending on which class of train ticket you purchase).

You can use Florence as a base to visit Tuscany if you don't want to drive. There are several towns that can be easily visited from Florence by bus or commuter train. If you want to rent a car for a day and visit the countryside you can do so in Florence as well.

If you have several days at your disposal, you could also stay in 3 places, instead of just Florence and Rome, one of which would be somewhere in the Tuscan countryside between Florence and Rome. For example:
Florence: 2 or 3 nights (no car advisable while staying in Florence)
Tuscan Small town/country side location: 3 or 4 nights (a rental car picked up in Florence is advised for this stay)
Rome: 3 or 4 nights (no car advisable while in Rome, therefore return the car upon arrival in the city)

Posted by
41 posts

Roberto -- I looked into exactly what you are suggesting. My concern was going through customs twice, especially in a foreign airport. We speak manageable French, but no Italian. I assume we would be going through customs in both France and Italy coming and going. How much time would we need to allow for layovers for this? CDG seemed very busy/confusing when we were there in June of 2014. I have been looking for flights from CVG or Dayton to Rome or Florence that don't go through CDG, but they seemed few and far between (I believe I did find some on American from Dayton to Rome that go direct to/from Philadelphia), but I do prefer Delta.

Again, thanks to everyone. Your advice has been so wonderful and kind. We are deciding between this trip or one to Normandy in France. Ease of travel will be of primary consideration.

Posted by
13806 posts

I am not familiar with the flights out of CVG but Delta is also my preferred air carrier since it flies into my tiny local airport. Is there a CVG -> Amsterdam flight? That may be a slightly less confusing airport for a transit than Paris.

Posted by
32171 posts

Paris / CDG is not the easiest airport to transit through. You may also want to look at flight that go through Frankfurt / FRA. I've travelled that route to Florence and it's not too bad.

Posted by
19637 posts

You only go through Customs once, at your destination, and Immigration once when first you land in the Schengen Treaty Zone of Europe. Customs normally entails picking your bags off the carousel and walking out the door marked "Nothing to Declare". Yes, the sign is in English, but all are painted green universally throughout Europe. Immigration entails getting in the line marked "All Others" and presenting your passport and answering a question or two ("Where are you going? How long will you be here?") and getting you passport stamped. The language will be either the local language or English, the default second language. When the Immigration officer sees your US passport, he/she will invariably address you in English (its not his/her first day on the job).
Edit- I like the idea of flying directly to Europe first leg, if possible. I'm gun shy about a domestic flight getting delayed and which may cause my getting to Europe a day late. Coming home, I'm not that particular.

Posted by
646 posts

I like Roberto's suggestion. I wouldn't worry about not speaking Italian while going through customs. We travel to Italy yearly and never had difficulty with the language. Safe travels.

Posted by
254 posts

Train travel is so easy throughout Italy. Driving is also easy enough except in the cities. Florence is confusing and Rome is way worse! Do not drive in Rome. Rome is not a day trip, so I would fly there and spend a few days, then leave by train Florence or Venice. Fly out of one of the northern cities. I highly recommend working Cinque Terre in to your itinerary (not far from Pisa or Florence).
On my last trip to Italy I chose my second city based on how easy it was to get a flight out. We flew to Rome, trained to Verona (home of Juliet's balcony, and an amazing amphitheater), then flew from there to Paris.

Posted by
261 posts

Stay with the Trains...fly into Rome-3 nights...Wellness Inn or Hotel Ivanhoe...use hop off-hop on bus
for major sights...short train ride to Florence-4 nights...Hotel Mia Cara-day trip to Verona...short train
to Venice-3 nights at CaRiccio...fast train back to Rome...these are great little hotels/B&B's and your cost
would be well under $150 nite for a double...just visited Venice & Rome in June...Mike,Chicago USA

Posted by
15560 posts

I like Roberto's flight itinerary. Just make sure when you check in for your first flight each way that your luggage is checked through to your final destination and that you have boarding passes for your connecting flights. If you do online check-in and don't get your connecting boarding passes, you can get them at the check-in counters at the airport. It's not critical but it will save you time and inconvenience at CDG. It's not difficult to change planes at the large airports, it just takes time to walk through. If you have to change terminals, there will be free transportation available. There are often boards showing the gates for connecting flights. If you don't see them, just ask the staff (in English).

Staying in 2 locations, Florence and Rome, makes sense. In Tuscany, you can use the train to Lucca or Pisa, and the bus to Siena or San Gimignano. You could also take a one-day tour, maybe villages and wine-tasting. I'd allow at least 4 nights (3 full days) in Rome. If you want to maximize daytime sightseeing, take a late afternoon train from Florence to Rome. You can take picnic dinner to eat on the train, or have a late dinner in Rome.

Posted by
7175 posts

Sticking with Roberto's plan ...
Florence: 2 or 3 nights (no car advisable while staying in Florence)
Tuscan country side: 3 or 4 nights (a rental car picked up in Florence is advised for this stay)
Rome: 3 or 4 nights (no car advisable while in Rome, therefore return the car upon arrival in the city)

Flight wise I would suggest you connect at JFK with Alitalia to Rome - AZ609 departs 16:20, arrives 06:55.
This early arrival will hopefully see you on the direct train from Fiumincino to Florence - FA9491 departs 11:08, arrives 13:22.

Posted by
12 posts

I lived in Rome for 2.5 years and just moved to Verona last year. I've traveled in these areas extensivily (just took a holiday in Tuscany this summer). Tuscany itself is a large area to travel in. If you want to visit Rome, I would most definately would recommend staying inside Rome. Just trying to get in and out of Rome can be a daunting process that you will spend most of your day. Rome is very intense and sometimes is overwhelming especially to first time travelers. I would recommend staying in a small place in Trastevere or similar iconic Roman neighborhood. Rome is best at night and so many tourists really miss out if they only visit during the day. The closest Tuscan town (really Umbrian town) to Rome is Orvieto. It's 1.5 away on a good day driving to the outskirts of Rome. I would recommend Oriveto but not as a base to see Rome.

Siena is popular with travelers... very popular with travelers. And if it is your first time it may be one to consider. I've been to Pisa (go very early and spend 1.5 hrs to just see the court of miracles and get out), Lucca (nice for a bike ride around the city on the medieval walls), Montepulciano (very picturesque, windy hilltown and a lot of tourists) and San Gimignano (nice for an evening stroll to see the towers but is a tourist trap). My two favorite are Orvieto (already mentioned) and Volterra. I love Volterra... a true & authentic Tuscan (and Etruscan) hilltown. Although, they don't make it easy to get to which makes it more difficult to reach some destinations (and also helps keeps out the mass of tourists).

You may be able to stay in a nearby Tuscan town..maybe in Chianti...and go into Florence. Although, there again you spend a lot of time getting into and out of Florence. You miss the early morning or late evening time when it is at its best.

I would spend 3 days in Rome, 4 days in Tuscany (pick two villages) and 2 days in Florence.. if you wanted to do the Rome, Tuscany and Florence tour. Buon Viaggio!

Posted by
41 posts

Thanks again to everyone for your assistance. Wrapping up plans and bookings and have a few more questions.

I did find flight from Cincinnati to Paris with connection then to Florence. My question -- there is only 1 hour, 10 minute layover in Paris. Is this enough time? If I am reading previous replies correctly, we will need to go through immigration at this point (then customs in Florence). I would assume we might have to change terminals too.

Also, had planned to do Florence, bus to Siena, train to Rome. While in Siena, we were going to rent a car for 1-2 days, however, I am seeing that it is very difficult to park in Siena. Are we better to do tours to the country side?

Posted by
1929 posts

Personally, I would be a little nervous about only a 70 minute layover at CDG. It might turn out fine. Or not. Is it the same airline for both legs, and will you be receiving your luggage in Paris before you continue on? I suppose you could chance it with the ever-present Plan B being the next flight to Florence, especially if you have your bags. Both times we've had connections--into Rome, out to Catania, Sicily; into Munich, out to Chicago--we scheduled 2+ hours each time and felt comfortable with that.

Posted by
41 posts

Thanks, Jay. I did find same flights with 4 hour layover in Paris, so that seems a better bet. We don't get into Florence until noonish which is a bummer, but we will just add a day in Florence and deduct a day in Siena/outer Tuscany.

Return trip from Rome - either 1 h 45 min layover in DeGaulle (leaves at 645AM - gets to Cincy 1:59PM)
OR
via Atlanta with 2 hour layover (don't get in until 9pm)
OR
via JFK with 2hr 40 min OR 3 hr 35 minute layover (get in at 7:30pm either way)

Advice anyone?

Trying to avoid changing planes twice, but also want to be back in Cincy at reasonable hour as we will all go to work/school the next morning. Last trip to Europe, time in Cincy was way longer than we expected to come through customs. We will have 1.5 hour drive from airport.

Posted by
1929 posts

Getting into Florence at noon isn't so bad. Dinner doesn't start there until 7:00-8:00, and much earlier than noon you might not be able to check into the hotel. Wherever you're staying, notify them of your arrival time & maybe they can expedite your check-in. And read up on the various schools of thought on combatting jet lag when traveling west to east. What's worked for us--not for everybody--was a nice lunch and stroll upon arrival, followed by a 2-3 hour nap, then dinner and not too late to bed. Felt pretty good the next morning.

So, the return Rome/Paris flight is in the middle of the night? Going be a long night/day of travel, but what the heck. If you have to work Monday, I guess that's your best option. Truth be told, no matter what time of year, I'd rather change planes in Europe than the likes of Atlanta or JFK, anyway. When we flew into CDG in March, even though we were staying there it seemed pretty efficient to me, English spoken almost everywhere in the airport.

Posted by
3586 posts

I'll just chime in here that having a 4 hour layover at CDG is a much better plan than a 70 minute one. We've had a couple of those very short plane change times at FRA. With some delay at departure, we sweated bullets all the way, there; and then had to run through the terminals to make our connection. NO FUN. CDG is not an airport that you can run through. Very often you have to get a bus to go from one terminal to another. Much better to relax and have a cafe au lait with a delicious pastry.

Posted by
41 posts

Rosaln, Jay, et al -- do you think 1 hour 40 minutes is enough layover in Paris when returning home? (Fly from Rome to Paris to Cincinnati). Do we have to go through any immigrations or customs in Paris or simply change planes? We really can't miss our flights as we have to be at work/school the following morning. Didn't want to depart on Saturday if we could avoid it as we wanted to spend as much time as possible in Italy. I am getting conflicting info online about the immigration/customs matter. Previous posts on here mentioned that when we fly from Cincinnati to Paris then on to Florence, we will have to go through just immigration in Paris, then customs in Florence - I am not sure about the reverse.

Posted by
1929 posts

No doubt Rosalyn or Roberto have had more experience with this, so I will defer to them on the immigration/customs aspect of this at CDG. But with the Rome/Paris leg being in the wee hours of the morning, one would think that without a ton of air traffic the flight should go as scheduled, thus 1 hr 40 min should in theory be enough time to connect, if you didn't have to fool around too much with immigration or customs.

Posted by
1446 posts

On the way to Florence, customs and immigration would be done at CDG. 4 hours is good coming in. Your flight from Paris to Florence would be like a 'domestic' arrival. The Florence airport is not big and it's a very quick taxi ride to the area around the Duomo (for your hotel.)

On the way back, you would simply be doing a connection in CDG, but may have a change in terminal. So yes, you can do it, having enough time if the flight from FCO leaves on schedule. Your first point of entry into the States would be where you'll have to factor in the U.S. Customs and Immigration formalities.

Posted by
15041 posts

inbound to Europe:
70 min layover in CDG is not likely to be enough to make the flight to FLR. You have to go through passport control then move to Terminal 2G for Florence. On the positive side is the fact that there are numerous AirFrance flights to FLR and if you miss that one they will just put you in the next a few hours later. It has happened to me on the way to FLR so many times I can't even count.

OUTBOUND FROM EU TO US:
1h45m layover in CDG to make flight to CVG are generally enough. AirFrance will go through extreme measures to get you on that plane to the US so that they don't have to pay you for one night in Paris. Those measures Include sending personnel to you inbound plane from Italy, hauling you downstairs to a small van, and driving you on the Tarmac to the departing terminal, going under planes, around airport carts and personnel at reckless speeds that will make your hair stick up like a porcupine.
I have made my connections back to SFO from FLR sometime in 30-40 min at CDG. Sometimes they shut the airplane door behind my back. In the 1990s I was flying exclusively through CDG every year, sometimes twice a year. Got stuck in Paris for the night only once but only because they canceled all flights due to snow.

Posted by
41 posts

OK. Thanks to everyone's help, I have booked our air to Florence and back from Rome. I also have hotels in both cities (3 nights Florence, 4 nights Rome). Here is where I am running into a snag. We had planned to spend 2 nights in Siena between Florence and Rome stays.

1) I have checked the rail and bus sites and can't find schedules or tickets for trip from Florence to Siena OR from Siena to Rome. In fact, the sites I was referred to for Siena to Rome both say that option not available. Is it just too early since our trip isn't until April? Have tried both bus and train sites.

2) Assuming we can travel on public transport from Florence to Siena, we will have 1/2 day (afternoon) in Siena if we can leave Florence in the morning, 1 full day, then morning before leaving for Rome (had planned on late afternoon bus or train). We had planned to rent a car just for our time in Siena, but wondering if a day tour of surrounding Tuscan cities makes more sense on that full day since needing parking would limit our hotel choices.

3) From what I am reading, it sounds like bus is actually the better option for travel between the key cities (vs. car or train), would you concur?

Posted by
7737 posts

From what I am reading, it sounds like bus is actually the better option for travel between the key cities (vs. car or train), would you concur?

It completely depends on the cities. Bus is best for Florence <-> Siena because the Siena train station is well away from the historic center. But generally the train is the way to go.

Posted by
32171 posts

media,

Which rail or bus sites are you using? In most cases, travel by train is the easiest, quickest and most efficient method (especially if using the high speed trains which travel at up to 300 km/h). The trips you mention are not difficult at all. A few thoughts.....

  • Florence to Siena - Use the Bus (SITA). The bus station in Florence is very close to Firenze SMN rail station. Try to book one of the Corse Rapide (express) buses as they're a bit faster (a bit more than an hour as I recall). You'll be dropped in the main part of town at Piazza Gramsci. DON'T forget to validate your ticket prior to boarding the bus on the day of travel. Ask your hotel in Florence for directions to the bus station. You could buy your tickets the day ahead of travel (that's what I usually do).
  • Siena to Rome - Very easy by train. If you're staying overnight in Siena, ask your hotel to arrange a Taxi for the next morning for the quick run to the station. There are two main routes used on that trip (and a few that use a bus) - south to Chiusi-Chianciano Terme or back to Florence and then to Rome via high speed Freccia (one change of trains in each case).

For the trip from Siena to Rome, I'd probably use a departure at 09:18, arriving Roma Termini at 12:50 (time 3H:32M, one change at Florence). NOTE that the first segment of the that trip is via Regionale train, so you MUST validate your ticket prior to boarding the train on the day of travel, or risk hefty fines which will be collected on the spot.

Posted by
41 posts

Ken -- so we will be going back to Florence from Siena to get to Rome? We had picked Siena as a 2nd stop as it seemed to be on the way from Florence to Rome and thought this would save us travel time/expense.

For the sites, I was on Italia rail and several others (I can't seem to find in my history, but were official links on Visit Tuscany and Italia.IT). I did email the official bus lines to see why I could choose Siena and Rome from respective pull-down menus, yet get message that there was no service on my chosen day nor 3 days either before or after.

Posted by
1929 posts

Try the Trenitalia website.

http://www.trenitalia.com/

It's the cheapest way to buy intra-Italy tickets. But be forewarned, it's more than a little wonky at times. I just went on there and saw Ken's recommendation of the 9:18 AM train from Siena to Rome, but I can't get it to switch from Italian to English. But in a half hour it'll probably be OK again.

Posted by
91 posts

I do everything I can to NOT fly to Paris , the last time we were their we asked the information desk "next to Delta check in " , a question on how to get to a gate ". It was really hard to find but anyway they did not really help just said , CAN'T you READ !

Posted by
7175 posts

Best timing for Siena to Rome ...
RE 6911 Dep 12:15 SIENA (Italy) Arr 13:30 CHIUSI-CHIANCIANO T. (Italy)
IC 585 Dep 13:45 CHIUSI-CHIANCIANO T. (Italy) Arr 15:20 ROMA TERMINI (Italy)

Posted by
15560 posts

You won't see regional trains if you are looking ahead at train schedules. They only show up 7 days in advance. Choose the day of the week that you're planning to travel from Siena to Rome.

The bus is better between Florence and Siena because in Siena the bus stops in the center, the train station is a km or so farther away. I don't know what the luggage storage is like on the bus. If you have larger bags, you may find it more convenient to take the train and then a taxi in Siena to your hotel. In Florence the Siena bus stop is across the street from the SMN train station.