Fined while traveling by bus

Diana, whether you feel justified or not has nothing to do with the law. What will happen? No one knows for sure, but you could receive tickets in the mail at home. If you got a ticket in the U.S., what would you do?

Diana, Just curious, who told you that one ticket could be used for two people if you stamped it twice? Did you pay for two seats? What is the "correct manner" to stamp the tickets? I've never encountered this before, so I'm interested to know why this occurred. Cheers!

This question has been asked and answered previously. From the search box above, have a look at the following threads. http://www.ricksteves.com/graffiti/helpline/index.cfm/rurl/topic/73275/what-will-happen-if-i-do-not-pay-the-florence-ataf-bus-fine.html http://www.ricksteves.com/graffiti/helpline/index.cfm/rurl/topic/71201/ticket-in-rome-for-riding-bus-without-a-ticket.html http://www.ricksteves.com/news/travelnews/1108/helpline.htm http://www.ricksteves.com/graffiti/helpline/index.cfm/rurl/topic/58158/bus-fines-in-florence-italy.html Is there anything else about your situation not covered there?

You had an obligation to understand how the system works. Why did each of you have a single ticket? It is common problem whether it is a transit violation or a traffic ticket. Some will say don't pay it and nothing will happen and others say pay it. You broke the rules regardless of your intentions. (By the way, it is the same in the US) The point is nobody really knows. Those who have not paid with nothing happening still don't know if there will be consequences further down the road. In this day of maga date bases, internet acesses, etc., with your US driver license, they know who and where you are. Your driver license with your address is a better id than a passport with no address. It is your call. And the risk you are willing to assume. No one on this site or any other can tell you with certainty what are the long term consequences for non-payment. Remember, someone who tells you not to pay it has no risk.

You do have a duty to pay the fine regardless of what your intent was. Normally you must pay on the spot, I'm surprised they didn't make you pay. Sometimes they will even escort you to an ATM if you claim you don't have cash. But sometimes they don't bother which seems to have been your case. As to what will happen if you don't pay? Who knows? But it's unlikely anything since it was just a bus fine and you are not Italian or EU citizens.

Sorry to hear about what happened to you. I hope it didn't ruin your vacation. This is indeed a recurring topic on this site, even though it skirts awfully close to a violation of Community Guideline #8 on this board: 8. Do not help people break laws. Speaking of the existence of law breaking is OK. Sharing how to circumvent visa restrictions, scam hotels, or perform other illegal acts is prohibited. Hopefully others can learn from what happened to you. I've tried to put a positive spin on bad experiences like this by considering them to be raw material for an interesting story once I get back home. Take care.

Ken, I wondered about your question because it has been a couple of years now since my wife and I went around Florence by bus. My memory is that we had to get tickets from a Tabachi, one each, and stamp them in the usual European way as we entered the bus. I hadn't heard of tickets which can be stamped multiple times.

Maybe it's like Bologna? We were sold a 10 ride ticket at a bus company kiosk and told to put it through the ticket machine twice for each journey. The details of the journey were then printed twice on the back of the ticket showing that we had both paid.

you know whats really interesting,, they didn't seem to care you didn't have a passport,, the way some people go on about carrying one all the time,, you would have thought they would have called the police as well as accompanied you to an ATM to pay fine.. I don't think a single thing will happen to you if you leave without paying, ,, its hardly a "no fly list" broken law,, but more importantly,, do you ever plan to return to Italy,, and what may happen if you ever get another ticket while there,, thinking consequences might be more severe,, higher fine etc. Note I am not advising you one way or another on what to do,, simply answering your question,, what would happen,, and my opinion is nothing.(note an opinion is not something you should put too much faith in)

OK here's a response to all the questions. The ticket was a legitimate ticket, even the inspector agreed to this point. It was valid for 4 rides and could be used by two people, it just needed to be stamped twice. It was stamped twice but not in exactly the right place.
The inspector took us off the bus and called the police. They called back and said they weren't coming because they had a marathon and two demos to take care of. The inspector and her associate couldn't take us to an ATM because they were riding the bus and didn't have transport! Crazy! They wrote us a ticket, flagged down a bus and were off.

As I mentioned in my private message, I think in that case the inspectors were just being d*cks.. and I think the police thought they were morons too..

Some people with power have what I call syndrom of importance. It seems that was the case with your inspectors. What would happen if you don't pay: My educated guess is absolutely nothing. The reason: Italian desorganization and very soon Italy will have much bigger problem than "unpaid" bus ticket.

Here's a thought: what if Italy did collect on all the unpaid tickets/fines? I think it would make a dent in the national debt, based on helpline threads.

Diana, I'm pleased to hear that this worked out well for you! It's great that the Manager of your Hotel dealt with the problem in such a decisive manner, and fortunate that she had good "connections" to important people in the tourist bureau. Possibly the two Ticket Inspectors have been re-assigned to "less pleasant duties". Based on your description, it sounds like they were "throwing their weight around" in an unreasonable and unfair manner. I've found that not all officals in Italy behave that way. When I was travelling by train there a few months ago, I witnessed some kindness towards tourists from an official. I was sitting in a compartment with a couple from Australia, who had obtained a pile of tickets that appeared to have the same number of pages as a small novel. They weren't aware that the train we were riding on had compulsory reservations, and therefore didn't have any. The Conductor could have easily fined both of them which probably would have been about €100, but instead she chose to simply explain the rules and asked them to pay for the reservations. It was a very pleasant way to deal with the issue. On another occasion and another train, I did witness someone getting fined for not having reservations, but in that case it was probably deserved (that's a long story). Hope the rest of your trip was enjoyable!

Well fellow travelers, for those of you interested in how the saga continued, read on: I spoke with the delightul manager at our hotel. After reading all your great posts I was ready to pay the fine and move on. However, she was pretty agitated that we had been issued a ticket. More than that, as a member of the tourist board, she felt this was a poor way to treat tourists. In response to my asking if it could be contested, she got on the phone with the bus company and talked to their customer service people. I then walked over to the bus company office and to speak to them in person. They asked to see the ticket for the fine, regarded it with a level of contempt normally reserved for used tissues, and basically said "FogeddaBoudEed" "Stoopido!". I returned to the hotel and thanked the manager, who added that she had emailed the Mayor (also a member of the tourist board) with an account of the incident and she also photocopied all the info just in case.
We enjoyed the rest of our stay in Italy and managed to avoid further incidents. By the way if you are looking for a nice place to stay in Florence with delightful staff I have one I can recommend.

Diana, I'm happy to hear that you had a positive ending. By all means, go ahead and give the name of the hotel here so others can benefit. FWIW, I think what happened with you is that you stumbled upon an aspect of Italian life that surprises a lot of people - the bureaucracy (for lack of a better word). Some Italians (not all, but some) have bureaucratic jobs with clearly defined job responsibilities that they enforce to the letter, not exercising any discretion. I've seen this before at the entrance to the Duomo in Bologna. The guard would not let anyone in with a backpack style bag (no matter how small), while women with much larger purses and people with much larger messenger bags were allowed to take them in after a cursory inspection. When we pointed this inconsistency out to the guard, he just shrugged and kept enforcing the strange rule. Anyway, I'm glad you got to experience the other wonderful side of Italy with the owner of your hotel. :-)

Michael, As strange as it is, that is the rule for many, many churches and museums in Italy. Anything that is worn on your back must be checked, but other bags (like you mentioned--purses and messenger bags) can be carried in. Not saying it makes sense, but there is some consistency throughout the country on that point.

Like Ken mentions, some inspectors can be quite kind. Even though I ride the trains all the time, twice I have forgotten to validate the ticket for my husband and I in the rush of everything. Once on board I went and found the conductor, explained "Ho olvidato convalidare la mia biglietta!" (I have forgotten to validate my ticket!) and he looked it over, took care of it for me with no additional fine. Some do have a heart! If it happens to you, be sincere and friendly, try to throw in some Italian and maybe you'll be lucky as well.

Hey, Devon. Sorry to be "that guy" but "olvidar" is Spanish. What you were searching for was "Ho dimenticato ..." or "Ho scordato..." It's such a fun language to speak, isn't it? I describe speaking Italian as a "full-body experience" if you're going to really get into it. :-)

I once got on a bus in Amalfi with a group of elderly British tourists. They had just purchased bus tickets at the Tabacchi and gotten on the bus with us. There just happened to be an inspector who boarded the bus and asked to see everyone's tickets. Low and behold, he discovered that the British tourists tickets had previously been stamped and were therefore "no good". They had actually just purchased their tickets however. He was going to fine them on the spot, but they protested loudly. He said that if they didn't pay, he would call the police. They said "bring it". They knew that they had been scammed and would not back down. Eventually, the inspector relented and let the bus continue on.