Finally going to Italy! Timing questions....

Since trains are once per hour (minimum) from Venice to Florence, and twice per hour (minimum) from Florence to Rome, just pick the ones that suit you.

Yes indeed Katherine, your excitement comes through loud and clear! You've even gotten me excited. And with good reason, May is a wonderful time to explore virtually all parts of Italy. I spent this past May all over Italy, from Sicily on up to Verona and Venice. It does seem a little strange that your first questions deal with the nuances of 3 or 4 o'clock train schedules. We could all probably be more helpful if you laid out the basics about your trip -- how many nights in Italy, is Italy your only destination on this trip, are you planning to focus your trip on Venice, Florence and Rome (which many people do), or are there other places in Italy you hope or plan to include? A few bits of experience related to travel: (1) flying "open jaws" can eliminate back-tracking and save you a lot of valuable time, such as flying into Venice and then flying home out of Rome, or something similar to that; (2) moving from one city to another takes a lot more time and energy than just the 1 or 2 hour train ride; it involves packing up, checking out if where you are staying, getting to the train station, waiting for your train, and then reversing all that once you arrive in the new city; you can figure all that will take half a day for a short trip, and more when more distance or train connections are involved; (3) fast trains between major cities in Italy, such as you mention, are really fast, very comfortable and reasonably priced, and if you can plan and lock in your schedule a few months in advance, you can get really inexpensive economy or super economy tickets online. Provide us some more information, along with your continuing excitement, and I'm sure many on this forum will offer lots of useful guidance, this is a great source. Of course, I expect you'll also be consulting the Rick Steves or another good travel guide for Italy, to help you think through how the different places in Italy match up with your interests and schedule. The RS guides are really good on tips for train travel, mid-level and convenient lodging, and information about many of the principal sites in most cities and popular towns. Happy planning and then, Buon viaggio!
Larry

As Sam posted, trains are frequent. To take advantage of the supereconomy fares, you need to book up to 120 days in advance of travel, but you are committed to that train. I found a €9 fare from Milano to Venezia Sta Lucia, so this can be a great bargain. I have a countdown clock for when the tickets I need will be available (obsessive but economical).

May will give you plenty of daylight for afternoon/evening sightseeing in the cities you mention. Personally I like to travel earlier in the day to lessen potential problems with delayed trains, but if you want a leisurely lunch, you might look for a departure time of 3:30 or so.

Enjoy your trip back!

I agree with your thinking about train times. For me, the key in Italy is that meal times are relatively "fixed" (lunch 1 to 3 and dinner 8 to 10), and it can be hard to find open restaurants between these hours. Restaurant meals also take time; they're not geared to "turning" a table, but expect to seat only one set of customers per meal at each table. Therefore, I plan my train trips in Italy between meals.

So I wouldn't have to rush through lunch or worry about schlepping my luggage to the restaurant, I'd probably take (as my first choice) a train from Venice at 4 PM. Then, upon arrival in Florence, I'd take a taxi to my hotel, drop my bags, and walk around before dinner. The train leaving an hour earlier can also work, but I don't see a real benefit, since "attractions" will already be closed.

Similarly, a 3 PM train would have me rushing through lunch (including time getting from the restaurant back to the hotel to pick up bags, then from the hotel to the station). Sure, it could work, but I'd want to bring my bags with me to the restaurant (Rome traffic being what it is, I'd hate to miss a pre-booked train because of congestion).

All that applies if you want to leave each city after lunch. I also agree with Zoe that leaving after breakfast is even easier; you're at the hotel so there's no backtracking to retrieve luggage, and you get to your new city in time for lunch. The room may not be ready, but you can just leave your luggage and venture out; it will be ready when you return. Just remember to take your guidebooks, so you can sightsee right after lunch if you want.

Katherine,

Your sense of excitement at returning to Italy is certainly apparent. Hopefully you've been brushing-up on your Italian language skills.

As mentioned earlier, the trains have frequent departures, and the Venice-Florence-Rome routes are all mostly high speed these days, with speeds up to 300 kmH. However, tickets for those trains require compulsory reservations which are specific to one train, date and departure time, so you must be willing to commit to that if you're buying the cheapest advance tickets. Those caught without valid reservations for the train they're riding on will face hefty fines starting at about €50 PP, which will be collected on the spot!

I'm not completely clear on your travel plans. Are you planning on staying in each city for a few days, and then move to the next city in the late afternoon? If that's the case, one point to keep in mind is that you'll normally have to check-out of your hotel by about 11:00, so you'll have to store your luggage from then until the time you depart. While most hotels will store luggage for a few hours for guests that have checked-out, I find that to be slightly annoying so I prefer to head to my next city by about noon and then have lunch in the new city.

Also as mentioned earlier, using open-jaw flights is absolutely the most efficient method (ie: inbound Venice, outbound Rome), as that saves the cost and time of returning to the starting point.

One other point to mention and something that's probably new since you lived in Italy. In addition to trains operated by Trenitalia, you can also use the newer Italo high speed trains on those routes and get some good deals by pre-booking. In some cases they use different stations, but I believe on the routes you're using Italo also uses Venezia Santa Lucia, Firenze SMN and Roma Termini (runs to Termini may not be as frequent as to Tiburtina). The trains are a deep maroon colour, so you can't miss them. Have a look at either the Trenitalia or Italo websites for all the departure times, prices and other details.

So we were going to try to save some with the economy booking.....I just want to know if anybody that has done multi stop travelling (and on vacation, who doesn't) has any advice of the timing of the trains moving from city to city.....mainly between Venice and Florence, and Florence and Rome....
Would a 4ish train from Venice be reasonable to have lunch beforehand and get to Florence at a reasonable time (6:30pm) or should I aim for a 3ish train, arriving around 5ish? (I am thinking the 3 might be better for wandering around Florence benefits)
and from Florence to Rome, would a 3ish train be good, to arrive at 4:30? I want to not be rushed in Florence for lunch....

Hi Katherine,

I am VERY, VERY excited for you! I was just in Italy at the beginning of Sept to the 15th, traveling from Milan > Florence > Rome and I booked train tickets for my daughter and myself about 4 months before our date of travel (the earliest time that we could book). She is much more Europe-traveled than I am (although I've been to Paris & London a few times) and had been to Italy, but I made most of the travel arrangements. The website that I found invaluable was "The Man In Seat 61". Everything that I THOUGHT I would need to know regarding my train travel through Italy, and how/when/where to buy tickets was right there.

http://www.seat61.com/Italy-trains.htm#.VF04c7TE6dt

http://www.seat61.com/international-trains/trains-from-Venice.htm#.VF073LTE6ds

The way we planned our departure and arrival times had more to do with check-in times for our apartments, and what was convenient for our hosts at each apartment. We wound up arriving just before 2pm. Once we dropped our bags and settled in, we hit the streets on foot. We had no problem at all finding light food and gelato to tide us over until dinner. In Florence, we stayed on Via Ghibellina ....just a hop and a skip to everything.

The same for Rome, except we stayed in Trastevere. Fortunately, we were staying down the street from Viale di Trastevere so there was an array of caffes to choose from. We also took Tram 8 to the center, which we picked up on Viale di Trastevere. It think it really all depends on if you need to meet any schedules (like we did in meeting our apartment hosts), how long you want to wait before restaurants are open, or other personal considerations you might have.

Anyway....this is what WE did. I hope this information helps.

~A~

Harold and Zoe, that's exactly what I needed to hear....thanks!

I guess, since I lived in southern Italy for so long, our lunch times were later than the north and I'm not terribly used to the earlier timing of the north....a 3:30 departure in the south would be fine because no restaurants open before 1, but I wouldn't want to take a normal "northern Italian" lunchtime, which would leave me extra time to dawdle about before my really cheap train :)

I do like the Italo options....how dare they make searching for the best fare more complicated ;) haha

I am going to ponder the earlier departures, but in some places, that morning would be most of the open time we have to wander about and relax......so there may be a lot of dawdling anyways! haha

and amerillis, I might should ask our apartment hosts what works best for them, that's a good idea! I was just shooting for a midway in their check in times....

The more that I think about it.....they didn't have the super economy/economy savings, but I remember they had like the main routes on way discount sometimes......we did get a great deal on Salerno-Milano for like 29 euro......so maybe that was the precursor to this awesome new savings system....

oh, and to everybody else so excited and willing and eager to help me plan, I have had this trip laid out itinerary wise for the past 4 years, exactly where I am going, exactly what we are doing, I just had to save up the money....but thanks for your excitement for me!!

Its a 4 stop trip, to my home of Salerno, Venice, Florence, and Rome over 2 weeks.......I even had all the accommodations booked a week before I booked my tickets because we weren't changing days, we were just feeling out the prices....

Flying nonstop from Atlanta to Rome with the Leonardo express and a freccia (hopefully, but whatever is best when we land, it could be an IC) to Salerno, which is so much better than a connecting flight to Naples then catching the Alibus to Napoli Centrale and another train to Salerno, which I have done so many tiresome times....then after that, Venice, Florence, and finishing in Rome.....

Oh, and basically I am being the tour guide to my parents, who haven't been to Italy in forever, my dad was basically at the port of Naples when he was on a submarine for the US Navy and my mom who lived in Italy for a few years when she was 12 with her dad who was in the Navy.....

For places I have been a lot, I always make sure I see 1 new thing so its not old hat everywhere I go......so this time I am making sure we go to Lucca (I don't know why I am so fascinated with it) and Venice (can you believe that I lived in Italy for 2 years and I never went? I mean, it was like 8 or so hours on a train!)......I can't contain myself! hahaha

I am really excited for you, too. I lived in Rome on and off for nine years in the 80s-90s and wasn't able to return until several years ago.

Lucca is a great choice, you can walk or bike the 4-kilometer wall (good way to work off lunch). Are you going to/have you been to Paestum, not far from Salerno?

I have been to Paestum a couple times, and am taking my parents......we are aiming for that the first full day in Italy probably, since its a short trip (as in not taking all day to see) so we can get over our travel tiredness

I wish more people went! Its so neat!

for some reason I am DYING to bike the walls in Lucca!

Walking the walls of Lucca was a highlight of my couple of days there. Also visiting some of the lovely villas outside the town. And a great meal at Osteria Barallo on Via Antiteatro - no pizza or spaghetti marinara in sight - just good Tuscan cooking.

Oh! I will keep an eye out for Osteria Barallo!! haha thanks!

Hi Katherine!

I am 'obsessively planning' as well, but this is for early March for my wife & I. 18 days--flying Chicago/Paris nonstop, 4 days there, train to Lucerne, Switzerland for 2 days, then to the homeland! Train through the Alps, through Milano to Florence. 5 days at a VRBO apartment near the Piazza Santa Maria Novella, a stone's throw from the SMN station, which is a great hub. Maybe day trips to Venice, Siena, Lucca, or do absolutely nothing & just hang out & wander this wonderful town. (Our only other trip abroad was to Sicily, Florence, Rome a few years ago, and we fell in love with Florence). Then a train to Salerno, with 5 days at a centrally-located B&B. Great jumping-off point to the Amalfi Coast, Pompeii, Paestum, Naples, all within 1 hour travel. The key--I think--is to have home bases with viable transportation so you're not on the road the whole time, and to have the flexibility not to do anything if sitting in a café & watching the world go by suits your fancy. It's like the 'anti-tour'! Then, finally, flying Naples/Munich/Chicago.

Still figuring out the train deal. Up north in France & Switzerland, trains are efficient, quick & expensive from what I hear. I may purchase one or two legs in advance from here in the States (maybe Paris/Lucerne and/or Lucerne/Milan/Florence), not sure yet. I believe there are deals to be had. But in Florence, I'll have five days to buy advance tickets to Salerno, or to any of the day trips we plan, and they're pretty inexpensive to begin with--but with that comes the late trains, strikes, etc. As a rule for this whole trip, we are planning to start our train travels mid-to-late morning, so that any unexpected snafus won't totally mess us up.

BTW, Katherine, the only train we took last trip was the Fresciarossa from Florence to Rome. Fast, quiet, about an hour-and-a-half. Rome's Termini station, however, is a cluster of epic proportions, much like Rome's Fiumicino airport. Know what you're doing before you get there--a quick connection somewhere else might not end up well for you! :)

Ciao, Jay

Yes Jay, I also think that having a base to branch off from is great, we are getting acclimated to the time change in Salerno (I knew I wanted a B&B close to a specific area, Seaview Salerno got me really excited, but its definitely not a stone's throw away from the station, more like a 20 min walk or 5 min bus haha)....and the good thing about Salerno as a base is the regionale tickets are most of what we will be using, so no need to book in advance! We def don't need to worry about connections because we are going to a big city and then STOPPING.

Amazing how the more time one allows for a certain home base--like Florence or Salerno--the more things there are to do! And don't assume distances, either. Our B&B in Salerno is supposedly under a half-mile from the train station, 'an easy walk' according to the ads, but with rolling luggage & backpacks on ancient cobblestone streets...I think I will request they pick us up at the station, which they apparently do as an accommodation! They also will drive us to the Naples airport at the end of our stay, which will cost us but is well worth it.

Again, the farther south, the more funky the day transportation can be. To Sorrento from Salerno? A choice of bus, hydrofoil (maybe not in early March!) or hire a driver. To Naples, certainly the train to Napoli Centrale, then to the pizza! Currently working on the best way to either Pompeii or Paestum, as they're in different directions. Heck, that's four days right there! From Florence for day trips, it appears a little easier, and also from the past trip I have the lay of the land at the SMN station, at least a little bit. Really cool that we can get to Venice on the Fresciarossa in a little over 2 hours, with trains to & from more than once an hour--certainly makes it doable if we want to leave early and stay late. Lucca, Siena or Pisa are on slower trains, but no trip is more than 90 minutes. This trip, no driving--maybe in the future... :)