Father & son trip

It would help to have a little more information. Have you been to other countries in Europe? If you've planned a trip somewhere else, you should be fine figuring out the details of a Rome stay. I always figure that if I'm staying in a single location managing all the details isn't too hard. I make a list of sights that interest me, put 2 or 3 onto each day, grouped by location, and then assume the rest of the day will be filled by random sights, wandering, having coffee etc.

Having said all of that, though, when I travel with my mom, who is also in her 70s, I usually take a tour. I find that it's easier to have someone else be the arbiter of our travels. The tour covers the general sights that my mom wants to see and I don't have to answer lots of questions about....am I getting us lost...did I bring the tickets...did we miss the bus stop...are we in the right line. Etc etc etc.

Don't get me wrong - I like traveling with my mom - we've done at least 5 trips to Europe together, but I enjoy myself more with her when I'm not the one in charge of every detail. There's a Rick Steves 7 day tour to just Rome. You might have a good time on that.

I couldn't agree more that Italy can be overwhelming. So many sites require advanced reservations. If you think a Rick Steves might be too active of a pace, there are other tour companies that might work for your dad. Unless you are prepared, you will not get the most out of your vacation. While you may return to Italy, chances are your dad won't. It would be a shame for him not to experience everything Italy has to offer. I think you should strongly consider a tour.

Mrfish,
I think a good place to start would be to get some travel books & read about the sites that may be of interest to you & your dad.

Rome is a beautiful city. If your dad likes history, art, architecture, & delicious food, you can't go wrong with visiting Rome.

BTW, October is a great time to travel. The weather is nice, the crowds are gone & you can enjoy many of the highlights without having to wait in long lines.

You don't say how long your trip will be, but do consider traveling to Florence also.
I've taken 4 trips to Europe ( 3 of which have included Italy) with my mom, who is now in her late 80's. I've always planned our own trips, mainly because I know the pace will be much slower than any tour itinerary I've ever seen.

I think this is a great birthday present for your dad!

Thank you for all of your responses. This will be my 1st trip to Europe. My plan is for a 7 day trip (give or take) and sticking with Rome. I know my father would love the history, art, culture and religious aspects of Rome. I am also thinking about taking a day trip to Carrera, where my grandmother (his mother) is from. Thanks again. I really do appreciate all of your help!

A week in Rome will be lovely, and October is my favorite month here. A day trip to Carrara (not Carrera I presume) is 3 1/2 hours each way on the train, so I think you need to set that plan aside unless you want to do an overnight.

Find yourselves a little apartment, perhaps, where you can retreat and relax in the afternoons. (Ask for more info if that appeals.)

My husband and I are very energetic travelers of 71 and 62, but we still like a little downtime either in mid-afternoon or for two-or-three hours before dinner (which we never eat before 8:00 pm). We like to plan something major in the morning -- a museum, major site, big walking tour -- then after lunch take a break and then do something else late afternoon or early evening. That might be a museum with late hours, a walk, or even a small group tour. If our morning activity takes us past lunch (i.e., a full day tour such as seeing the Vatican and St. Peter's), then we are less likely to cram in another activity later in the day.

The benefits of eating late as Europeans do is that you have more time to do-and-see sights. Hard for North Americans to shift, but it really is a nice way to end the day rather than eating at 6:00 pm and wondering what to do with the evening.

Have you read Rick Steves' "Europe Through the Back Door?" Excellent reference for a first-time European trip.

Mrfish,
I wouldn't recommend traveling to Carrara as a day trip from Rome.

According to the Italian Railways website(http://www.trenitalia.com), it would take close to 4 hours one way from Rome to Carrara.

You may consider traveling to Carrara for an overnight, then head North to the Cinque Terre (Monterosso)

Carrara >> Monterosso = 33-70minutes via train, depending on which time & train you choose.

You may want to check this site to get an idea of train ticket prices & travel times between desired destinations:http://www.trenitalia.com

You can purchase train tickets in advance at considerable savings.

You will need to use the Italian names of the stations:

• Rome = Roma Termini
• Florence = Firenze S. M. Novella
• Carrara = Carrara-Avenza

I know this is a surprise trip for your dad, but make sure you give him some time to get everything he may need for the trip, including medications (if he takes any), a current passport, comfortable walking shoes, a light rain jacket, etc, etc...

I do hope you post more questions here on the forum.

Happy planning!

Edit : I was writing when Laurel posted-- it took time to research a bit, as I've not traveled to Carrara before.
Laurel is a great resource especially since she lives n Rome! ;-)

I think I will take the advice and skip the trip to Carrara (sorry for the previous spelling error) and stick to Rome. And a great point... although the trip is in October, the surprise will be in May.

It looks like I have a lot more research to do. But you all have given me great info. Thank you so very much!

No need to apologize for spelling errors, we've all done it :-)

If you're traveling from North America, you will lose a day traveling to Italy & another day traveling back home.
Consider this fact when planning your trip.
Since this is your first trip to Europe, you don't know how jet lag will affect you & it may take you a day or two to feel like your normal selves again.

You may want to add a couple of days to your trip & you can always take a couple of day trips if you choose to.

Great gift, good son!

How active are you and your father? Italy means lots of walking, much of it up and down steep hills and stairs (when the hills are really steep), and downhill is surprisingly tough on older knees. The best way to visit is to get in shape beforehand with lots of long walks. It's a bummer to get worn out during the trip, takes away a lot of the joy. You'll have to figure out how to get Dad in shape without telling him why.

The trains to Carrara go through Pisa. It's about 3 hours to Pisa, then 1/2 hour to Carrara. You could plan to spend a night in Pisa and see the Leaning Tower (even climb it) as a bonus. If you want to do that, make it easy by leaving your luggage in your Rome hotel and taking just an overnight bag with you. To maximize your sightseeing time, take evening trains to/from Pisa (you can check your overnight bag at the Pisa station) and have picnic dinners on the train. You can see the train schedules at trenitalia.com. Regionale trains (the slow ones) only show up 7 days in advance, but schedules don't change much so you can look at tomorrow's trains for planning.

Don't feel overwhelmed, you have lots of time and planning can be enjoyable. Already you're meeting nice people here for a start!

What you can do now:

• Read Rick Steves' Europe Through the Back Door which is a how-to guide book for generally getting around in a foreign country and lots of specific tips to make it easier and more fun. Also get his guide to Rome. Read both with a pad of little Post-Its and a highlighter :-)
• Start looking at flights. Best is non-stop to Rome, but that may not be an option. For me, second-best is always changing planes in Europe, not in the U.S. Changing in the U.S. usually means changing terminals (domestic/int'l) plus having to go through customs with your luggage when you first land on U.S. soil.
• Start looking at hotels. You can read a lot of reviews on Tripadvisor (some of which may not be genuine) and on booking sites (like booking.com). These are generally more trustworthy because only people who have stayed at the hotel can write a review. Take all reviews with a grain of salt - some people have unrealistic standards, some people have no standards. Consider what's important to you and your father. How much "luxury" do you want, how much "atmosphere"? There's no one central area, so being near the metro can be as important as being near particular sights or neighborhoods. Even in October it can be hot, so I'd only choose places with AC.
• When you start to feel overwhelmed by the logistics (flights, hotels, getting around the city), switch to looking at sights in Rome and reading trip reports. Start a list of the stuff you and Dad would most like to see. Browse through scrapbooks put together by RS tour participants - any of the tours that included Rome. It will give you ideas and they are fun to read.

Lastly, remember that you will never be able to see and do it all . . . the trick is to enjoy all you see and do.

What a great surprise!

Six or seven days in Roma will be great. I do what Laurel suggested, since I am at my best in the morning, I put the major sight first. Then in the afternoon I visit a couple of minor sights.

A daytrip to Ostia Antica might be interesting, it's a large area so pace yourselves.

I prefer hotels to apartments, especially if they are staffed 24/7 and provide breakfast.

Mrfish,
You've received excellent advice from Laurel, Chani & Zoe!

I too prefer to stay in hotels which are staffed 24/7.
My thought on this... If I need assistance, with anything that may come up, the hotel staff can help.
On our trip to Spain last year, I developed a medical condition that required urgent care, & the hotel staff were invaluable in assisting me with the resources I needed. I'm always concerned about my mom's health, but as it turned out, it was I who needed medical help!

Great advice from the gang, and I'll add that Rome is NOT a difficult city for a first-timer to Italy. There is plenty of English spoken - not always fluently but enough - and the hospitality industry is well used to caring for travelers from all over the world: a good choice for a first dive into the Boot.

I don't see the need for a full-blown tour, and agree that going solo provides a lot more flexibility for going at one's own pace and seeing exactly what you wish to, for as long or short as you wish to. What sort of shape your Dad is in? I don't consider 70 to be especially old - I've shared hiking trails with people older than that who could run circles around some younger folks I know - but everyone's life stages are different. Seeing Rome 'properly' involves a fair amount of footwork, IMHO, and there are stairs to manage but there's also public transport to hop if tuckered beyond one more step.

You might consider one or two short tours, though? For instance, there's a 3-hour tour at the Vatican which includes the museums AND the basilica, and shortens the distance between them via a sneak down a back stairwell reserved for tours. It might be just the right amount of time for Dad, and it's also affordable. See this page on the Vatican's website (scroll down to "Vatican Museums and St Peter's Basilica"):

http://mv.vatican.va/3_EN/pages/z-Info/MV_Info_Servizi_Visite.html

That tour ends up in the church, and you're allowed to spend as much time there as you wish once it's over.

Anyway, with an idea of how mobile your Dad is and the types of things you both want to see, we can help you sort the best ways to get those done. Take a deep breath: it'll be fine! Oh, and we've been to Rome in October and had lovely, comfortable weather with just a little bit of rain here and there.

If seeing Carrara is important to you and your dad for family reasons, perhaps you could put it at either the beginning or end of the trip, and fly open-jaw into Pisa and out of Rome, or the reverse, depending on which area you want to see first.

What a nice son :)
You have received excellent advice so far. The only thing I would add is, IF you feel the need for a day trip, Orvieto is a lovely town, quieter than the hustle and bustle of Rome, and only a little over an hour away by train. Just in case you want a relaxing day.

Wow! You guys are fantastic! I am feeling less overwhelmed and more excited to plan this trip for my dad. Although he is 70, he's still pretty active and still works full-time. I think planning the trip myself is going to be the best option, instead of a group tour. I'm going to keep it simple and not try to do too much, yet see and do as much as we can at the pace that we want. However, I will definitely utilize Rick Steves' amazing resources, books, videos and, of course, YOU GUYS!

All of your advice, tips and experiences have been beyond helpful! I can't wait to see my dad's reaction when I surprise him!

Thank you again!

Here's the thing. As is, you're going to have to plan it before you tell him in May. If you want to move telling up to say, March, then you can gauge his want-to about Carrara. It's probably going to be his only trip to Italy (unless he LOVES it and wants to go right back, which believe me, is possible) so if it is, and the family heritage thing is ultra-important to him, then you know what--you gotta go.

Carrara, by itself, is a P.I.T.A. when you were otherwise considering only Rome--it's out of the way, and alters your flight plans. If you do go there, however, I would fly into Rome, spend 3 nights, then take the train (3.5 hrs) to Carrara, where you can spend 3 nights and soak up the heritage. No sense on going there and just doing a fly-by for overnight. Then the final day, there's either a 3 hour train ride to Milan and out or a 2 hour ride to Florence and out.

My wife and I did a heritage trip last March, to Sant' Arsenio, southeast of Salerno, as part of a 17-day trip to Paris, Lucerne, Florence & Salerno. It was a daytrip, spending only 4 hours there, but in hindsight--as this is only me talking here--I wish I could've taken a week to immerse myself and visualize a 19th-century Sant' Arsenio where my great-great grandparents were born, worked & lived.

Bottom line is that if you do Carrara, in a sense you're giving Rome a little short shrift, but you may gain so much more in being with the old man in Carrara.

Enjoy your planning!

I wholeheartedly agree with Jay. If you know that your father is really interested in seeing where his roots are, you should plan a day or two in Carrara, staying overnight in that area. Do you think he is interested in looking up any relatives that might still be there? Even just going to the city hall and looking up his mother's name in the book of recorded births is an experience that is special and unforgettable. I speak from experience. Rome is wonderful, but not everyone can go back and see where there parents were born.

If you want to go to Carrara, it is more convenient to go to Florence. Both cities have a link to each other as Michellangelo's sculptures were carved in white marble from Carrara. In Carrara, do not miss the Duomo and take also advantage of going to nearby Forte dei Marmi, very nice sea resort, or Viareggio.
If you need some help for accommodation in Florence, I might be able to help you (2 possibilities in Central Florence)

Better you visit Lucca than Pisa, much nicer.

You're on the right track: keep it simple. It's very good to hear that your Dad is in good shape so you don't really have anything to worry about there.

I'll throw in my vote for a 24/7 staffed hotel for this maiden voyage; nice to have support if/when you need it, and most hotels include breakfast in the tariff. And depending on your preferences, we do NOT eat late in Italy and have never had a problem finding a place which can accommodate us. We're both very early risers (a great time of the day in Italy) so we probably have some miles under our belts before a lot of of others are out of bed! We also don't eat a sit-down lunch (great time for sightseeing) so we're ready to rest the feet and eat at 6:00 - 7:00 PM. It's been a bonus more times than not when cafes are looking for walk-ins during the earliest of their opening hours, and we've ended up with some great street-side tables.

Now, we don't eat at fancy places, don't stress about the 'best' place to go, and do not make reservations so if there's a particular place you're sweet on, those might be necessary or be prepared for a long wait. All-in-all, though, a different dinner schedule than what Italians and the bulk of tourists might practice is not a problem as long as you're open to options.

We've had some wonderful walkabouts when the rest of the masses are lining up for dinner so doing the opposite of what everyone else is doing can have its advantages!

With 7 nights and to experience some diversity...
Day 1 Train to Florence (2 nts) after arrival in Rome
Day 3 Train via Pisa to Carrara (1 nt)
Day 4 Direct train IC 511 to Rome (4 nts)
Dep 14:14 CARRARA-AVENZA (Italy)
Arr 18:03 ROMA TERMINI (Italy)
Day 8 Fly home from Rome

suggestion, for a first time visit to Europe consider Rick Steves Best of Rome in seven days tour--Rome, there are so many things to do and see it is really special place to visit. For a given time span a tour investment brings a great return for you.
1. Your goal, "Keep it simple" = with the tour planning it is very well done (you make the flight plans), and the rest---- hotels, the experience of having your own full time lead tour guide selected by the Rick Steves group, plus a local guide for some events, the meals either together or when they are on your own, you can get recomendations on where to eat (some lead guides will invite you along with them on free time or for the meals on your own euro). The tour can be a busy schedule which is a good thing; but you may opt out of any planned event that you choose. It is not a forced march. On the other hand an advantage of these tours is they keep you moving with lots of interesting things, many of which may be missed touring on your own and not knowing where or what to look for. In a city new to you with a new language, the tour has the advantage of maximizing your time doing things rather than spending your time figuring our what or where your next move is to be (this can be worth doing, but it takes time to try stuff out).
The members of the tour groups usually consist of very interesting people to be associated with, if you choose to do so. There is still plenty of room for you to research and plan things to do beyond the tour itinerary.

2. The 7 day tour is really 5 full days (first day begins in mid afternoon & last day is over at breakfast and that is often skipped by people heading out) and it appears like you'll have three free afternoons and several evenings on your own--often you'll can get assistance for a plan for this time or kick back at a place of your choice. You mentioned 7 days give or take. On your own, possibly you could stretch an additional visit beginning with taking the 7th tour day and add one or two more days at the tour end to further explore Rome; or else move into the other visitation area you were considering.
3. Consider the weather factor in your plans. Rome gets hot and that can really take a toll on your effort to tour. Go early. We've been recently cooked on the South Italy and Sicily tours in April.
We are in your dads neighborhood generation wise and based on his activity level believe he will do well with the tour activity (April will be our 14 RS Tour--going to Italy in April).

Make it a great time with your dad!

Day-by-day planning . . .

• Most sights are closed one day a week. Some are better on certain days and/or worse on others.
• Weather will impact your visit. Rain is bad for an outdoor sight, so is extreme heat, so you need to be flexible, either switching things around, or having back-up plans
• As others have advised, you don't want to plan too much each day. That also gives you the opportunity to explore. Every church is a museum. Shops are interesting. People-watching is fun, better with gelato, espresso, or an Aperol spritz.

When you have a list of places you want to see, come back and we'll help you organize them . . . and probably add ideas.