Family trip to Italy

Hi--

First question is, have you ever been to Italy before? That would enter into the planning. Assuming you haven't, your basic itinerary is pretty good. Time of year to travel is good, at the start of high season but not totally overrun and not blisteringly hot either.

You could probably get best airfares R/T into Milan or Venice, but only for a little bit more you should be able to do an open-jaw--into Milan/Venice, out of Rome. At the very least check it out, because for only 11 days (and 10 nights), backtracking is a real drag, and might be worth the extra cost.

My opinion--and I'm sure there will be dissenters--is that given your limited time in Italy you need to choose between Venice and Cinque Terre, with the latter being probably your choice because of what you mentioned about the hiking. If you do that, fly into Milan in the morning and immediately take a 3-hour train to La Spezia to begin your C.T. leg.

Next, I'd actually choose at least a couple days in Florence because A) it's less than 2 hours by train from La Spezia, and B) it has a charm all its own. Easy to stay near the train station, wander around, shopping and sampling the native cuisine, before you take the 90-minute train to Rome.

Spend the rest of your time in the Eternal City, and with 5 of you--depending on whether you think it would be a good idea (every family's different)--consider renting a 2 or 3 bedroom apartment for the 4-5 days you have left. I would almost guarantee it will be less expensive than 2 or 3 hotel rooms, and probably more fun. We're staying at an apartment on Campo de' Fiori in a couple months and are really looking forward to it.

Enjoy your planning!

Your itinerary up until the last day sounds good, acknowledging that you've weighed whether to spend time in Venice or Florence, not both. Venice is unique, no place like it. Kids will surely remember it prominently. And allowing more days in CT to walk/hike seems to fulfill one of your main interests.

As previous poster suggested, see if you can get an open-jaw flight arriving Venice and departing Rome. That way you won't have to spend a day backtracking to Venice. Especially since your flight out of Venice would be in the morning, meaning you'd have to take the train the afternoon prior and stay overnight near the Venice airport, which would not be very scenic or interesting. (N.B. You do not want to be at the mercy of a lengthy train trip at dawn to make it from Rome for a morning flight. You never know if there could be a strike or some other disruption.) If the open-jaw costs a little more, you'll probably save the equivalent by not having to make the Rome-Venice train trip.

Sat thru Tues - Sight see Rome

This would put in you in Rome on 6/2 - 6/6, and actually a little less than that as I'd strongly advise returning to Venice on 6/6 if you're flying out of there on 6/7. As the previous poster mentioned, I wouldn't want to rely on everything going like clockwork from that sort of distance if I had a plane to catch, and backtracking wastes sightseeing time. Open jaw flights into Venice and out of Rome would be much better

Rome: some things to be aware of are that the Vatican museums will be closed on Sunday, and all of the state museums (Colosseum, Forum, Palatine, National Museum of Rome complex, etc.) are free on first-of-the-month Sundays so you'll want to avoid the biggest of those (Colosseum for sure). The Borghese is free as well but reservations are still mandatory so it doesn't have the crowd problem (reservations will go quickly!!!).

The Cinque Terre is going to be very busy end of May and accommodations there fill quickly and very far in advance so I would get those booked NOW.

Time allotted to all of your locations is pretty short so I wouldn't add any day trips. If you fly out of Rome - and thus don't have to waste time backtracking on 6/6 - I'd consider adding a day to Venice: 3 nights Venice; 3 nights CT; 4 nights Rome.

To look for an open-jaw flight into Venice (or Milan) and out of Rome, select the "Multi-City" box on your flight-search page. I'd be pretty surprised if RT to Venice is much cheaper than a multi-city returning from Rome. Given the choice between Venice/Venice or Milan/Rome, with your itinerary I'd choose Milan/Rome since you're likely to be dead on your feet on your arrival day, anyway. It won't really cost you much sightseeing to spend part of that day on a train from Milan to Venice.

If the anticipated return from Venice would be rather early in the morning, don't forget to factor in the high cost of private transportation to the airport at that hour, and the fact that you might have to crawl out of bed at an ungodly hour.

Of all the places that I think your kids would love, Venice is near the top of the list. I think you shoud add at least one or two more days to Venice.

I'm so happy with your thoughtful suggestions!!

My answers/clarifications:
1) No, my family hasn't been to Italy before.
2) Great suggestions about getting apartment. What websites do you recommend?
3) I will definitely do the open jaw option. Thanks for explaining how to do it.
4) From La Spezia should I take an overnight (sleeper) train to Rome? It seems like there's a lot of train options. Which one should I do?

Thanks and please add any other suggestions

Some apartments are listed on booking.com, but there are other websites that probably offer more. Others here can give you specific suggestions.

You can get from La Spezia to Rome in 3-1/2 to 4-1/2 hours, depending on which departure time you choose, so you don't have to even think about an overnight train. (Some may be reasonably comfortable, but I had a nightmarish, no-sleep trip from Rome to Sicily in 2015.) I find the Deutsche Bahn website easiest to use when checking train schedules in Italy, but to get fares and purchase tickets you'll need to use TrenItalia, which will insist that you use the Italian spelling for each origin and destination (i.e., "Roma", "Venezia").

Edited to add: When you're certain you have the date and rough time of your La Spezia-Rome trip pinned down, I'd look at the departures around your desired time and compare length of trip, number of changes (there are a few that require no change at all), length of transfer time, and cost. If I were moving a family around, I'd be willing to pay a bit more to reduce the number of changes I had to make, and I would try to avoid really fast changes in large stations, though it will help if you all are traveling light and everyone can manage his/her own suitcase.

2nd Edit:

It appears that you will be moving from La Spezia to Rome on Friday, June 2. TrenItalia doesn't have those trains loaded yet, but the schedule probably won't be terribly different from what I see on Friday, May 5 (though most of those trains aren't being sold yet). You can look at the trains available now and make a provisional selection, then you need to keep a sharp eye on the TrenItalia website so you can buy your tickets as soon as they go on sale if you are looking for the cheapest non-refundable/non-changeable tickets. There's nothing wrong with waiting to buy if you're unsure about your travel schedule and prepared to pay more (could be 3 times as much or perhaps more??).

These are some of the good-looking options on the schedule for May 5:

Dep 8:16 AM via Frecciabianca, arr Roma Termini 12:03 PM. Great price of 19.90 euros on this run that requires no changes! By staying on your toes, you might snag June 2 tickets for that price. (Kids' tickets may cost less; I haven't checked on that.)

Dep 10:06 AM via InterCity, arr Roma Termini 2:33 PM. Another option with no changes. The IC train is a bit slower than the Frecciabianca and the May 5 train is currently selling for 12.90 euros.

Dep 1:16 PM via Frecciabianca, arr Roma Termini 5:03 PM. No changes. Price for May 5 is 29.90 euros; guess people like travel in the early afternoon on Fridays!

Dep 1:52 PM via InterCity, arr Roma Termini 6:03 PM. No changes. 19.90 euros for May 5.

Dep 3:40 PM via Regionale, change in Florence (31-minute layover, not rushed) to Frecciarossa, arr Roma Termini 8:10 PM. This connection isn't priced yet, but it's an example of what might not be a smart ticket to buy. The Frecciarossas are expensive trains, but you'd be losing the time advantage you're paying for by spending 31 minutes waiting for that train in Florence. You'd do about as well, if not better, with other combinations that likely would be less expensive, though you won't know for sure till prices are posted for June 2.

For example, dep. 4:16 PM via Frecciabianca, arr Roma Termini 8:03 PM. No changes. Likely to be cheaper than the 3:40 PM departure, leaves La Spezia later and arrives in Rome earlier. This one's available for May 5 at 29.90 euros.

There's not anything wrong with the other options; just be sure any connection times are not scary-tight. It's not a bad thing to have to change trains. It's not hard, and it's useful for the various members of your family to see how easy it is. You should feel free to select a departure time that fits your schedule for the day.

This link is not to a Rick Steves thread, but it is a good one about sights to see with teens: http://www.fodors.travel/community/europe/what-did-your-teenagers-love-the-most-of-their-italy-trip.cfm

4) From La Spezia should I take an overnight (sleeper) train to Rome?
It seems like there's a lot of train options. Which one should I do?

I don't even think there's even a sleeper option between those two locations, and even if there was, the distance isn't far enough to warrant one. Those are really only good for much longer-distance hauls such as Milan to Naples, or Rome to Palermo. For covering a lot of ground, flying can sometimes be a better option.

Use the Trenitalia website or some RS members have found https://www.trainline.eu (used to be Captain Train) to have been a bit easier to use.

We've used VRBO for renting an apartment in Florence, and for our apartment on our upcoming trip to Rome, we visited the website of the hotel at which we stayed 7 years ago. In the interim they had bought some 'residenzas' on the piazza, and rent them out for cheaper prices than their rooms, which is great because ours even includes daily maid service, which you don't normally get. FYI, there's also HomeAway and AirBnB for options.

Yes, no matter what website you use, it's a little bit of a crapshoot when trying to pick a place that's reliably and honestly described. But read the reviews and communicate via EMail with the owner, ask for pictures of the property if they aren't already provided. They may ask for one night upfront, which we've paid via PayPal. There aren't always elevators (or 'lifts' as they call them) and when they say first floor, it means second floor. Do your research to find a suitable neighborhood, within walking distance to a lot of attractions. We're staying at Campo de' Fiori.

Have fun and let your fingers do the walking!

So the airfares to open jaw (?) ATL-VCE then return ROM-ATL are still significantly more than RT to Rome from Atlanta. What are your thoughts about RT to ROM then catching Alitalia
one way to Venice to begin our trip?

Did you use Google Flights for your research? I just tried that, and it doesn't seem like much difference -- until you multiply the fares by 5. For your dates, I found RT prices in the mid $700's, and multi-city ones in the mid-$900's. Be sure to pay attention to the length of the really cheap flights. I'd rather be on the train to and from anywhere in Italy than sitting in an airport waiting.

Play around with the Italian cities some more and use Trenitalia to look at the costs for the train (both time and money) times 5. Also, even the Frecciarosa fast train between Roma Termini and Venice takes 3.75 hours and you still need to get to the airport. I wouldn't want to take that chance.

I haven't done it, but I always heard that to fly out of Venice, you have to leave very early, but when I checked it didn't look all that early to me. Maybe that's because it's a non-stop. The RT price in the low $800's looked good, too.

Milan's RT prices are the cheapest (RT about $730) and it's about an hour closer to Venice, so that could be an option, but again, I wouldn't chance even a fast train ride from Rome (about 3 hours) to make a flight in Milan.

Having said all that, flying between any of these cities will take just about as long as taking the train between them when you count all that's required with flying.

I love this stuff, so I did a little more looking.

I found that for $918 you can leave ATL at 12:30 and arrive VCE at 9:10 the next day with a stop in MIA (Miami). Coming home the itinerary is leave FCO at 11:15 am and arrive ATL 7:10 pm with a stop in CLT (Charlotte).

You could also pay $942 to leave ATL at 3:16 pm and arrive VCE at 9:10 am with a stop in PHL (Philadelphia) enroute. The way back home is the same as above from Rome.

Time is always money, but if I finished in Rome, I'd do my best to fly home from there rather than backtrack to Venice or Milan the same day as my flight, especially if it leaves before about 3:00 pm.

We always spend the night in the departure city, usually close to the airport, before a flight back to the States. But obviously, if you do that, you'll have the hotel costs for 5 people, so any RT savings might be diminished by being close to the airport.

When factoring in the lower price of the Venice round trip, be sure to add the price of a train ticket Rome to Venice and the added loss of a half day changing cities. You have so few days, do you really want to lose another half day? Also research on here about getting to the airport in the morning for your flight. I have done it. It can be extremely rough if you have an early morning flight. Go to Florence after Venice but before the CT. then CT to Rome.

After reading all the posts on this board about how CT is totally ruined by fellow Rick Steves travelers and cruise ships. I am discouraged from ever returning. (My wife and I had a magical day trip from Lucca to CT in 2007). I don't know where else to suggest for hiking though. For Venice, it is highly advisable to fly into Venice and not out of it, so good call on that one. Venice is also not on the way to anywhere else, so it makes sense to spend more time there when you do visit. So two nights there one of which on the day of arrival is shortchanging it by a long shot. Also, I assume you know that it's five hours on the train from Venice to CT and you are o.k. with that, right? The classic first time Italy itinerary is Venice-Florence-Rome but having visited a couple of month ago for the fourth time, just doing cities can be exhausting. You might want to look into less discovered places to hike within Tuscany, which is more directly in line from Venice to Rome. Also definitely look at going open jaw, it's crazy to backtrack just for the flight home.

Milan could be a good gateway city for starting a trip in Venice - cheaper than flying to Venice and considerably closer by train than Rome.