family trip of 20

Before you get a bunch of ideas thrown out there it would be good to get a bit more information from you.

Who is considering planning the trip (I don't know who stubbled is), a parent who's been to Italy before or an adult who's never been?

Is this a whirlwind 1-2 weeks in Italy just seeing the "big 3" with a Tuscany villa thrown in or something else? What time of year?

What are people's desires in your group? Happy to go along with anything or are there very specific interests? Have you polled the group before coming to this volunteer travel forum?

I'm counting 17. Thinking of bringing other extended family members? With a commercial tour like Rick Steves plus air and additional meals and incidentals, looks like a $100,000 price tag.

I agree with the previous replies. It would help to have a lot more information on what you're planning, in order to offer relevant and accurate suggestions. For example.....

• When is this trip taking place?
• What is the duration of this trip?
• Are you all departing and returning to the same airports?
• Which parts of Italy are you planning to visit?
• Is everyone (except the children) paying their own way?
• What type of budget are you considering?
• What are the expectations of the group (ie: what do they most want to see)?

If everyone is covering their own expenses, you could certainly book the entire group onto a Rick Steves fully guided or My Way Italy tours. That would be the easiest solution as all you'd have to worry about is the flights.

You could also plan the entire trip on your own. Getting about by train is the easiest method, but transportation could be a problem if planning to venture off the beaten path to areas not well served by public transit.

The My Way tour sounds like the easiest for you. How many nights do you have? You might start with a My Way tour and then spend some time on your own, either as a whole group or splitting up to follow your own interests, using the skills acquired during the tour.

When someone asks a question like this about planning for say > 4 people, I always say "run, run, run away as fast as you can". When you say "we plan...", you'll soon realize that it will be one person taking over the reins out of both expediency and practicality. You don't want that person to be you. That level of effort requires a ringleader, so beware. This is way too much responsibility for one person to corral that many folks and synch their schedules based on a multitude of interests and needs. Use whatever existing infrastructure that you can (meaning a trip that's already designed and all folks need to do is pay and show up). Only a professionally organized tour can move that many people in one direction all at once. And you won't lose sleep or your hair or goodwill of others that way either.

That is a daunting task. You need a pro travel agent to make a plan

This is way too much responsibility for one person to corral that many
folks and synch their schedules based on a multitude of interests and
needs. Use whatever existing infrastructure that you can (meaning a
trip that's already designed and all folks need to do is pay and show
up). Only a professionally organized tour can move that many people in
one direction all at once. And you won't lose sleep or your hair or
goodwill of others that way either.

I am 100% in Agnes' corner here. A professionally organized tour is the best way to keep the people who would otherwise end up solely in charge sane. You do NOT want to be responsible for the master plan, reservations, sightseeing and transport details for that many people, especially if most of them do not have a clue about traveling abroad.

With what looks like at least 5 different 'family units', I think the most practical way is to do something like a RS tour. That way you just have to agree on which tour and what start date you want.

For the math sticklers:
1 person (OP)
2 * 2 = 4 (2 sets of parents)
4 adult children
11 grandchildren

Grand total = 20 persons

But it's a distinction without much difference. Planning for 20 people versus 17 is not that different in terms of level of effort.

And my interpretation has been:

2 Parents. (2)
4 siblings with spouses (7) -- One is divorced or not married.
11 grandkids (11)
Total 20

I've just tried to make it work under his/her total. But it is immaterial, 17 or 20, it's a lot of people to manage, especially if only 2 have been to Europe before.

OK, I'll play devil's advocate--

What if she really wanted to organize this trip herself? This would assume that all 19 other family members ceded control on decision-making to her? That's always the first hurdle, isn't it? Of course, there would be a discussion period during the planning stages where folks could chime in on destinations, but everyone would have to agree to go with what the OP decides in the end.

I think it could be done without taking a tour and without stubbled wanting to get in a car and drive into oncoming traffic!

Thoughts?

Sure I think it could be done too but there would need to be some imput from all and agreement from key stakeholders. The person in charge of planning would need to have the respect of the group and some serious organizational skills.

It could be as simple as an agriturismo for a week for the group then everyone splits into smaller groups to see the cities in Italy of their choice.

EDIT: also, we don't know their skill level. Perhaps this family has 20 person reunions in different parts of the US every summer or so. Maybe they are used to this type of planning domestically. I've organized family pre wedding weeks at rented houses for 20+ members complete with transportation cards and brochures of activities on several occasions. It can be done but it is a lot of work for the planner. The success is when the event happens, the planner too gets to have a good time!

"Do we plan to tour with a group like Rick Steves or do we plan our own trip?" At the risk of having this misinterpreted as a snarky answer, for the sake of future family harmony please leave the planning to someone else. While planning for three or four people can be a big part of the fun of the trip, just the logistics alone for a group this size might turn out to be a nightmare. Even in the most loving and forgiving families there are bound to be things that some disagree with, don't like, or think they could have done better. That's when being able to have the blame placed on someone else is priceless. I really don't mean to be Debbie Downer, and I applaud your ambition for considering do it yourself planning, but this is really a job for the pros. Just offering thoughts for your consideration.

I immediately thought of a couple we met in Scotland last year. They were part of a big family trip like this. In their case, the planner ended up being the "cheapest" member of the family and had put them all up in a hostel with shared baths and a poor location. The couple were shocked to find that a mile away from the hostel was a lovely hotel on the shore of the lake that cost a mere 10 pounds more a night. There was some resentment surfacing toward the planner.......

I don't think a Rick Steves tour is the solution. Think of the other 6 potential tour members. Imagine showing up for your long anticipated tour to discover you are a tag a long on someone else's family reunion! Perhaps if Rick Steves would run a tour group limited exclusively for your family.

I think working with a travel professional like the trip consultants at Rick Steves office in Edmonds (can be done over the phone) might be helpful.

There are travel companies that put together custom tours for bands, school groups, churches, clubs, etc. Look into who might have done something like that in your community, and find one that knows European travel. A bit of work, but a lot less than trying to book a string of hotels with 10+ rooms for you.

I think it could be done without taking a tour and without stubbled
wanting to get in a car and drive into oncoming traffic!

Jay, I don't think it's impossible at all but there's a lot of information that's missing? For instance, Ken asked some great questions in his first posts, and I would add:

• Has this group ever traveled anywhere together before?

• Are the adults in the other families willing to collaborate with you on the necessary research?

• Is your group OK with not doing EVERYTHING together? Not everyone may want to see the same things, and not everyone is probably going to get out of bed at the same time in the morning (especially the 10 or so teenagers).

• Are the heads of the other families willing to make their own hotel and air reservations, pre-purchase any necessary trip insurance and attraction tickets themselves, split the task of making group dinner reservations (mandatory with that many people), etc? If one person doesn't take the WHOLE thing on, then that one person doesn't take it in the shorts if something ends up not being to someone else's standards/liking.

Even if you are open to organizing this whole thing yourself, making sure you are not financially responsible for anyone else's commitments is critical should some of your party back out partway through the process (yes, that can happen).

Lots of stuff to consider?

I would agree with Carol that an RS tour is not a great idea as the few other folks on the tour might feel marginalized by your big family group. A "My Way" tour might be fine, though. Anyway, a good travel consultant (I'll stress "good") would be a great resource for customizing a trip and handling a lot of the arrangements necessary for a tribe of 20.

stubbled seems to have disappeared so it's difficult to offer any further suggestions.

Ken, it's a holiday weekend in the US snd the OP came in on Saturday. Could just be busy?

Thank you Zoe. Yes, it's been a busy weekend and week. Dealing with all kinds of issues.

As for the trip, I am the mother/grandmother and we've taken trips over the last 10 years that I've planned. Everyone is grateful that I am the planner. We've rafted in Idaho; gone to Disney; visit NYC for shows and dinner (yes, as a group) and visit the beach each summer. Yes, sometimes we split up depending on a particular family's interest. This is our first joint trip to Europe. My husband and I have been to Italy twice so I can give some guidance. I just wanted to hear from others who have tips and tricks that might be applicable to us. thanks for all the folks who have weighed in and will weigh in.

Cool, stubbled!

This shows you have some experience in planning. And not a small part of the equation is that they're truly glad you are doing the planning. I'm that way myself, love to plan, but it's only my wife and myself, although we may have an overseas destination wedding to coordinate in the next 2-3 years. Yikes!

I do like the idea upthread of the agriturismo base and then groups 'doing their own thing' from there, but I suspect that some of your group doesn't want to do their own thing. Is that correct?

So, stubbled, where have you been on your two trips to Italy and would you want to return there? And what time of year, and for how long are you thinking? With teenagers still in school that will be traveling with you, I'm suspecting it's summertime (i.e. high season), which in a way is a shame because so much of what you're going to do will be dictated by crowds, and heat. If you found a way to do it in March or April--a long spring break--I feel your options would really increase, although it might be a bit chillier.

Nice to hear back from you, stubbled!

You gave a more to go on, and Jay has asked some good questions.
My guess would be that your family wants to see many of things that most first-timers want to see in Italy? While an agriturismo might be nice for accommodating a big group, the trade-off is often in transportation challenges, especially if trying to move everyone at the same time. Basing in the cities, IMHO, would allow for more convenient transport from one to another, and for smaller groups to easily go off and explore on their own.

Do you have a rough idea of the places which may be high on your tribe's wish list?

There are travel companies that put together custom tours for bands, school groups, churches, clubs, etc. Look into who might have done something like that in your community, and find one that knows European travel. A bit of work, but a lot less than trying to book a string of hotels with 10+ rooms for you.

Stubbled, this is great advice from Stan. My sister-in-law on two or three occasions took groups of Girl Scouts to Europe. The bones of the trip, including hotels, transportation, and major excursions were handled by a travel company that specialized in this sort of thing. They still had some flexibility, and my SIL mostly just had to worry about keeping track of the girls (and their massive, overstuffed suitcases!)

Zoe,

Good point! It's a holiday weekend here too, but I'd forgotten about that. Holidays are just another day for me and I don't always notice them.

Welcome to the RS travel forum! It seems you have the skill to plan a successful European adventure and this forum is a great source of ideas and details. Also the RS books have lots of practical information.

You are lucky to have a family that enjoys vacations together. Planning a European trip is only a bit more complicated than those you have already done. For example, rooms are usually much smaller and quad rooms are rare, so lodging may be tougher.

Enjoy the planning and the trip!!

You are lucky to have a family that enjoys vacations together.
Planning a European trip is only a bit more complicated than those you
have already done. For example, rooms are usually much smaller and
quad rooms are rare, so lodging may be tougher.

Exactly, Beth. Which is a reason I suggested an agriturismo or maybe even something like a villa in the hills outside Florence that can house everyone, hiring a van and driver to take folks back and forth.

Just a thought...

A group this size would need more than one van, which can be very expensive, and special driving permits may be needed (not sure about this). Hiring a van and driver might be an option, but also be pretty expensive. Several rental cars would be cheaper and allow more flexibility.

A close friend planned a birthday party weekend for her husband last year in Italy, it was a bear to do, took months to arrange, but she was dealing with special meals, food allergies, party menus for the group (four events), and all the guests provided their own transportation. We (I was the interpreter) took over an entire agriturismo (17 rooms) and spilled over into another two properties.

Honestly, I think the My Way tour through the Rick Steves company might fit the bill for this trip. Transportation between cities and lodging are taken care of, sightseeing is suggested, from what I understand, and tickets for particular things can be arranged (true?).

Our family did a trip to Cancun a while ago for my parents 35th anniversary. There were 2 parents, 5 adult siblings, 3 spouses, and 4 grandkids. That's only 14, can't imagine 20. That being said, I'd imagine that my Mom put the trip together, since she was the planner. growing up we camped on our low cost vacations across the US, so staying in a 5 or 6 bedroom house on a beach in Cancun was quite a splurge. We flew from multiple airports into Houston or Dallas, then we were all on the same flight to Cancun. Then a small bus picked us up at the airport and drive us to the rental. We mostly took turns cooking for the whole group and pitched in for trips to the grocery store. Since we were on a bus route, we could all do stuff without the whole group doing things together, and not isolated at the rental house. One day we hired a bus and driver that took us to the pyramids, a waterhole for swimming in a cave and lunch. One excursion with everyone was fun and I wouldn't have wanted to do that every day. Then bus returned group to the airport, flew back to Houston, and then onto our respective home towns.

So I think if you find a large villa to rent where the group can walk or access public transportation with lots of sites to see, you'd be in good shape. If you had a pool, that also would provide entertainment and a central place to gang out with the whole family.

though I don't have time to read through all the posts, I can perhaps make a few recommendations now and after I travel.
I leave later in the month for Rome (3 days) and then Montalcino (8 days) last night FIUMICINO (1 day) the day we fly out.
Our group is 11--- 9 adults and 2 toddlers.
we are using Road to Travel for part of our trip. I've been happy with them.
http://www.roadtotravel.com/
In rome we are only doing one organized tour : Vatican and children and family to Galleria Borghese (zoo, park etc.)
We have drivers for some of this in rome and to and from airport.
and to reduce expenses I have read tons of Rick Steves Italy books and we are staying in an Agriturismo in Montalcino (all couples/families have there own apartments) which will be our base for travel in Tuscany. We have 4 rental cars -- just for the hill towns. so couples can be independent.
We have tried to balance together time with independent time.
let me know if you want info when we return.
Good luck

Thanks to all for such great advice. I forgot to mention that we also took a trip to Wash DC for all and had a great time. The kid who is most adversarial, was the one to get the most out of the trip. He wants to go back !! Who knew?? I will pause this topic and work with my travel agent. You've all been so great. Thanks so much for taking the time to write. stubbled

Great! Let us know what you end up doing?