Families first Trip to Italy November 2019

Hello and welcome

Is the trip 9 days- or 9 nights? Makes a difference. Either way you don't really have enough time for so many stops. 3 nights really equals 2.5 days.
You will not need or want a car in Florence or CT, more of a pain than anything. Might consider using the great trains in Italy instead?

Venice deserves 3 nights, especially since first day is jet lag day. Are you coming from the states?
Florence with a day trip needs 3 nights. That is only 1.5 day in Florence, 1 day for Lucca/Pisa- easily done by train
Rome needs at least 3 nights minimum. I'd try to give it 4.
Excellent plan to fly into Venice and out of Rome.

I have not been to CT so can't comment other than I know the weather might not be conducive in Nov and it is a very crowded spot.

I think you’ll find most people will recommend fewer stops in such a limited time, and I am one of them, having done trips that way and finding it a bit rushed. We had 10 nights in Italy and did Rome, Florence and Cinque Terre, with a day in Naples for Pompeii. That was in June. I’d stick to Venice, Florence and Rome, 3 nights each. Or 4 in Rome. Rome is amazing. Any less and you’ll be shortchanging each one. We did a fun day trip from Florence to Pisa and San Gimignano. Save the CT for another trip when it’s going to be nicer. I think November is not a great time to visit, it’s way off season. We took trains and loved that, so I can’t help on the driving part, but Italy is wonderful you’ll love it! Have fun!

In November, the weather in CT could be marginal for outdoor activity, and it really has little/no indoor oriented sights.

Suggest Venice -Florence-Rome and all can be done by train

Christine,

We will be coming from Washington D.C. and have an overnight flight. We are not worried about jet lag and plan to be busy the moment we land. The entire trip is about 8.5 days Arriving at 1130 for the .5 and leaving on the 9th day.

We love to take side trips while driving if we see something of interest and a train would only limit us. We drove across Germany and France last year and loved the freedom of not being controlled by a train schedule.

The side trips are only if we have time as Venice, CT (for my wife...no leaving it out of this trip) and Rome are the key destinations for the family.

You have an ambitious itinerary there for a 9-day trip, it's doable but, there will be no relaxing. I'd skip renting a car, trains are the way to go in Italy, you will not be limited, Italy has the most complex and frequent train system in Europe. While the urge to explore and get curious about surrounding areas may be there, the reality is, the three big destinations you're visiting are the most concentrated locations for points of interest, not to mention the absolute worst for vehicles. Unless you're visiting the Dolomite region or, far Southern region, there's no need for a car rental for a first time visit.

We've not done it as a road trip as we used the trains. But we effectively did the same trip in October 2016. Weather was great, rain jackets let us not be hindered by the imminent showers, and three cities was a good amount... For two weeks. Personally I'd cut a location, but you could get away with three nights each. It will just leave you wanting to come back, but that happens regardless of the trip length.

The trains didn't leave us feeling limited. We stopped for a few hours in Bologna as we left Venice towards Rome and for a few hours in Pisa as we left Rome towards the Cinque Terre. Not sure how much of a pain cars would be in the Cinque Terre, surely others here can speak to that.

Just be flexible and don't over plan... Your trip will be great.

You should know from your prior trip that to accomplish what you want by driving, you should put aside an entire day going from one location to the next. The problem you have is you barely have enough time to see Venice-Florence-Rome. You really can't afford a day's worth of wandering, much less two.

I have two suggestions. First, do as others have suggested and go to Venice-Florence-Rome traveling by train. This will give you the maximum amount of time at each city, especially if you could leave in the evening from Venice and Florence.

The second suggestion if you are really set on driving would be to rent the car in Venice as planned and drive to an agriturismo just outside of Florence. There are two ways to drive. The most direct route will take about 3 hours, but it will be like driving on the interstate in the US. You might as well take the train. The other is to drive along the coast, which takes 5 hours, but that is straight driving with no time to stop and smell the daisies. Plan all day to do the drive justice.

Stay at an agriturismo that is on the main bus line into Florence. Take one day driving around the countryside, then one day going into Florence on the bus, returning the car and staying overnight. Spend the morning in Florence exploring, then take the fast train to Rome. I'll let you work out the details.

Hi there, Sidewinder -

The entire trip is about 8.5 days Arriving at 1130 for the .5 and
leaving on the 9th day.

So realistically, this only gives you 7.5 days for a proposed (including that day trip; Lucca+ Pisa is a DAY trip, IMHO, not 1/2 day) itinerary of 5 destinations. So, ouch? Lots and lots of travel and not much time in those destinations themselves. Cutting the CT and giving you those 3 desired FULL days in Rome, I'm seeing a feasible schedule something like this:

1 - arrive Venice (partial day)
2 - Venice
3 Venice> Florence (partial day)
4 Florence
5. Florence>Rome (partial day)
6 Rome
7 Rome
8 Rome
9 Fly home

(Editing to add: you might be counting differently, with a .5 day before my day 1? If so I'd add the extra day to Florence for a day trip)

If my count was correct, there is no time for random side trips here - not even for Pisa/Lucca if you want to do Florence any justice - and none of these destinations are vehicle friendly. That includes the CT, should you drop Florence/Pisa/Lucca altogether and move those 2 nights there.

The plus of using the trains is efficiency when time is limited: you can get on one in the middle of one city and get off smack in the middle of the next. There are no worries about parking ( inconvenient, expensive, and a lot of city accommodations don't provide it), avoiding bus lanes and no-drive zones/ZTLs (read up on those if you haven't) or safety of leaving your luggage in an unattended car if making random stops, even if you did have time. The high-speed trains will get you from city-to-city much faster than by road.

Anyway, for a 7.5-day, 3-city trip - or even 2 cities plus the CT - I'd go with the trains. A vehicle can be fine for a trip devoting adequate days to exploring rural Tuscany, Umbria, Dolomites, etc. but I really think it would be more hassle than help for your particular trip. Realistically, you have less time than you think you do so I'd encourage some prioritizing and rethinking of your transport plan?

Evan as a couple I would not enjoy a trip of this pace, and with four in tow I urge you to consider time constraints. Venice and Rome would be a fabulous trip with your amount of time!
Cinque Terre is not ideal in November.

Sidewinder- if you could clarify exactly how many NIGHTs you have in Italy? I am reading it as 9 nights but others see it as 8.

I have nothing against driving in Europe- we drove all over Germany and drove France top to bottom last year but we had a lot more time than you have for this trip. We drove in Italy - just in Tuscany- as a car is useful there but a car is decidedly not useful or efficient for the locations you want to visit. As fas as I know you can’t drive or park in the CT villages at all, so your car is a real hassle there. You do not want to drive in Florence at all- parking and ZTLs are so prohibitive.

If you want 3 days in Rome that means you need 4 nights. Leaving you just 5 nights for all the other locations. (If you actually do have 9 nights!)

If Rome, Venice and CT are non-negotiable then decide how many nights you want in Venice- 3 is ideal, 2 means just 1.5 days. Not much time to really explore and enjoy.
Florence/Lucca/Pisa will need to be another trip. I suppose you could possibly make make a stop in Lucca and/or Pisa on your way to Rome but make sure your luggage is hidden.

If you pick up car in Venice- let’s say you are on the road by 10- that puts you in CT sometime mid-afternoon- with no stops along the way.

So
Venice 3 nights
Drive to CT- 2 nights
Drive to Rome- 4 nights- arriving there mid afternoon- no stops along the way.

Train is so much easier in Italy than driving but if you must drive make sure you have a car large enough for 4 plus luggage, read up on ZTLs. I assume you know all drivers need an IDP.

Sidewinder- if you could clarify exactly how many NIGHTs you have in
Italy? I am reading it as 9 nights but others see it as 8.

Yep, my confusion as well.
If you have one more day that I counted, then I'd either go with Christine's schedule, only I'll advise trains over a car...

Venice - 3 nights/2.5 days
Train to CT- 2 nights/1.5 days (this will be a time-consuming journey)
Train to Rome- 4 nights3/5 days- no stops along the way.

...or this one:
Venice - 2 nights/1.5 days
Train to Florence - 3 nights/2.5 days. 1 day trip.
Train to Rome- 4 nights/3.5 days - no stops along the way.

As mentioned several times above, weather in the CT could be sunny and mild or it could be wet, windy and chilly. Hiking is out if it rains (the trails aren't safe when wet) and there's little else to do if Mother Nature doesn't cooperate. Given enough time in Florence for flexibility - meaning a long enough stay to choose the sunny day without shorting time for the city itself - it can be done as a day trip by train from there but I wouldn't recommend it in November when daylight is short.

Echoing the really good advice you've already received from most of the previous comments, with the limited time you have (and assuming you actually want to spend time in those cities), you may want to focus this trip on Venice-Florence-Rome, and to make the most of that time, ditch the car and take the train. Might be lots cool "road-trip" stuff to see along the way, but not sure anything along that route would even come close to rivaling what you will actually experience at each of those destinations themselves.

But if the road-trip is what you're really interested in, then perhaps you simply focus your time on that, and spend minimal time (if any) in those cities. The only driving I've done in Italy was out of Florence and into Tuscany, where we had 5 days in a hill town. Plenty of fun stuff to do tooling around the Italian countryside. I suppose it all depends on what interests you and your family the most. But to quote a famous cruise line, if it were me, I'd "spend less time getting there, and more time BEING there."

Also, your follow-up comment implies that Cinque Terre is a non-negotiable item, but just so you're all going into it with your eyes wide open, check out the weather/temps in late November there (brrr!). So the beach is out, the boats probably won't be running because of rough seas, and if it's rainy and/or icy, those hiking trails would be out as well. Not an ideal CT experience, but to each their own. : )

All,

Thank you for all the great recommendations. I know the planned trip is a little short on the time I just wish we had the ability to stay longer. I am convinced that we need to take the train, ran into the ZTLS zones in France not a fun post vacation surprise. I understand we are doing the major cities and with traffic and parking it’s not ideal.

So the plan will be as follows:

Venice - 2 nights/1.5 days
Train to Florence - 3 nights/2.5 days. 1 day trip to CT, if the weather permits or Pisa
Train to Rome- 4 nights/3.5 day

We are really excited and with everyone’s help it will be a great time.

The main reason to go to CT is the hiking trails. If they are a no go due to weather then we will adjust. I think doing a 1 day trip to either CT or Luca/Pisa depending on weather will be the way we go.

Just need to find the right way to book the rail tickets for the entire trip.

Back to reading the Best of Italy guide!!!!

No matter how much time I plan for, it never feels like enough. Provides a great excuse to start planning the next trip! : ) Sounds like you've arrived at a solid plan. Let us know how it goes!

For great general information on Italian trains, the website www.seat61.com is your friend! You can book tickets directly with Trenitalia (Italian national rail company) or Italo (privately owned). If you are willing to commit to specific travel dates/times, you can purchase discounted tickets in advance (I believe as early as six months prior to travel); these tickets are nonrefundable but can be very budget-friendly.

Just need to find the right way to book the rail tickets for the
entire trip.

Not to worry! The only rail tickets you need to book are the "fast" trains from Venice to Florence and from Florence to Rome. You can land some nice price breaks if booking in advance! Lowest class (2nd class on Trenitalia trains or "Smart" on Italo) are usually cheapest and those carriages are just fine: no need to book business class or higher unless the price difference is negligible. The one catch is that those bargain tickets are for specific trains at specific times - no refunds or changes - so you want to be sure to catch your trains!

Trenitalia:
https://www.trenitalia.com/en.html

Italo:
https://www.italotreno.it/en
This is a private rail service with competiative rates. You might also find the site a tad easier to use.

The stations you are most likely to be using are Venezia S. Lucia (Venice), S. M. Novella (Florence) and Termini (Rome).

Destination stations for your day trips will depend on which trip you choose but tickets can be purchased the day of your chosen journey. These may involve regionale trains with no reserved seats*, and you'll need to validate your tickets before boarding. Italo doesn't service the CT or Pisa so use the Trenitalia site for browsing schedules.

(*)Fastest way to the CT: there is one "fast" train which leaves from Firenze Campo di Marte station to La Spezia Centrale at 7:36 AM and takes 1 hour, 35 minutes. From there you'll catch a local (regionale) trains into the region: only takes minutes to the villages. Going home, there's a "fast" train leaving La Spezia at 20:03 that will return you to Florence in 1 hour, 37 minutes. You can't do it any faster than this, and you will have reserved seats.

Kathy,

Thanks for the great information. Everyone is a plethora of knowledge. Wish I joined the forum prior to our previous trip.

Oh!
So glad you were able to adjust your trip. You'll just have to return one day, I have no doubt you will want to.
Happy planning!

There's so many trains running between those three main destinations, while peace of mind can be found booking ahead, I've done three trips where I didn't book before hand but, simply bought via the Trenitalia kiosks. Piece of cake, bought the tickets either several days ahead of time upon arrival or, the day of departure. Many trains and many departure times; the Italian train system is the lifeblood of many communities. Consider you're traveling in November, which if there is such a thing, is low-travel season.

Speaking of low-season, CT in Nov, there's likely to be many restaurants and store fronts closed for the season. Many business' close down for 3-4 months in the late-Fall/Winter time when business is slower. There's many, many trails to hike along, some of the more popular ones may be closed for maintenance since off-season allows the park (CT is located in a park) to do the repairs. If CT seems like a bridge too far or, things aren't lining up, a trip to visit nearby Lucca or, up to Sienna would be very suitable for a day-trip from Florence. Many trains and buses depart for Sienna so, again no shortage of transportation options to use.

While you certainly can purchase your "fast" train tickets when you get to Italy, the biggest reason for purchasing in advance is for landing those price breaks; they can really add up for a family of 4. For instance? The lowest Italo ticket price from Florence SM Novella to Roma Termini tomorrow morning at 7:00 or later is 44.90 €. For a random date in mid-October (November tickets not available yet) there are morning ticket times for as low as 18.90 €.

My sons are in their 30s now.
When they were teenagers, we spent a bit more than 9 days in Italy - landing in Venice, then Florence, then Rome. We were always busy and CT would not have fit in.
My sons were (and still are) into soccer (football) and visited every athletic store in each town.