Experienced driver wondering - Train or rental car in Umbria/Tuscanny for end of December trip

How long do you think the train takes from Venice to Ravenna? It's 170 kms and 2 hours drive by car. Plus stops and the time to get lost on Bologna's ring road. 2h50 by train, picking the right departure time. Avoid google maps to calculate driving times and use viamichelin.com. Use a day of travel before December 8 to see the complete train schedules.

I'm surprised you think that parking in small cities is Always easy (or free) and that you are not worried about ZTLs. Venice is the only place you mentioned that has no central ZTL, unfortunately you can't Get there by car, either.

The reason US tourists crave to visit San Marino is as mysterious as the one they flock to the Cinque Terre.
Looking at a map, your loop should be Venice-Padua-Ravenna etc. etc.

This isn’t what you asked about, but the first thing that hit me was that you are talking about 7 destinations + day trips in 2 weeks. Inadvisable itineraries pop up here all the time, but yours ranks with some of the worst. Daylight hours in December are the most limited of the entire year. Have you thought of what you actually want to do in all those places? I’m with Dario in being perplexed about why you want to go to San Marino, even if you had twice as long.
Now to address your questions. A couple of years ago, Roberto, a forum regular, put me onto a parking garage in Florence, that had a daily rate of €20. It was not on the outskirts, but just across from a well-known covered market. We just left the car there while we visited family for a few days. Getting out of the city was fairly easy when the time came.
My recollection is that there is public parking outside the walls of the historic center of S. Gimignano.

In Ravenna, there was public parking very close to the church of S. Vitale; and everything else is walkable from there. However, we were there quite a few years ago.
We didn’t have problems with parking in Padova, but I can’t remember specifics. Maybe across from the bus station?
We were in Assisi in 1997, so even if I could remember anything about parking there, it likely would be obsolete.
Renting a car has its pluses and minuses. There are many train fans among the posters on this forum, who will probably chime in to tell you what’s bad about cars. To me, the greatest advantage of driving is that you don’t have to worry about schedules, as you do with trains. You also don’t have to haul your luggage, lifting it, managing stairs in stations without elevators, etc.

Wow - these were not the response I was looking for! Please - no advice on itinerary, no criticisms, no assumptions that you know what I want. Please, if anyone has an impartial viewpoint and can let me know their analysis of the pros and cons of the train in December vs a rental car - I would love to hear from you! (For those other folks, please do not post - thanks).

There isn’t a direct railway between Venice to Ravenna, one has to change trains at Ferrara or Bologna, and that is why it is not as fast, as let’s say, Venice to Florence, where there are direct high speed trains. The train travel time would be about 2h50m.

Unfortunately however there isn’t much of a direct autoroute either. There are two choices.
The shortest, although not necessarily the fastest, is to take the Via Romea, via Chioggia, a two lane highway. The second is to take the multi lane freeway via Ferrara. I’ve driven the Via Romea in summer a few times. It’s a total nightmare because, in summer at least, there is a lot of traffic, especially trucks, and being a two lane highway, it’s difficult and dangerous to pass. If you go in December there might be less traffic, but the Po Valley is famous for the thick fog in winter, so it might be even worse. If you drive, I’d go for the freeway Via Ferrara. It’s longer in km, but less likely to get stuck behind a truck. In terms of travel time don’t expect it to be much faster than the train if there is fog or any winter weather condition, which is very likely.

Having said that, based on the locations you want to visit, I would rent a car after visiting Venice, and return the car when you hit Florence (a car is not needed nor advised in Florence). You can then proceed by high speed train to Padua and Venice.

One thing to consider is the possibility of winter weather conditions. That means almost certainly fog in the Po Valley, and possibly snow, especially along the E45 between Bagno di Romagna and Pieve Santo Stefano on the way to Assisi. The E45 might still be closed southbound at Bagno di Romagna for viaduct repairs (it was closed this summer, I have a country home not far) therefore you might need to take the old highway across the pass. In any case snow tires or chains must be carried mandatorily on most roads from Nov 15 till April 15, so make sure your rental is properly equipped.
Besides caution for winter weather conditions all other warnings apply (ZTL, IDP, Speed cameras, etc.)

Thank you, Roberto, you are wonderful! I really appreciate the time you took to offer this really detailed response and it really helps me to plan (if we choose to drive). God bless you.

Do you have 14 nights in Italy, not counting the night on the plane or the day you fly home? Typically you need 2 nights in one place to have a day between to see something of the place where you're sleeping.

Regardless of the transportation you use, 7 places with only 14 nights is really not enough time to see or experience much of the places on your list, much less do any day trips -- unless your trip is about the driving or train riding and not about being there.

Of the places you list, Florence is not the only place where parking might be a hassle, especially considering that you might not be allowed to park in some of those towns at all, much less close to where you're staying or for free. Some of them are hill towns where parking is below and you have to walk your luggage up and down stairs and steep slopes.

Don't count on the Italian weather being similar to that of Greece in December. My experience has been that it's colder and wetter. Do check the averages and recent year data online. And don't forget that the days will be short and some places may close earlier than you might expect.

If you haven't done so already, take a look at this free downloadable brochure What you should know about renting a car in Europe in 2019 on the Gemut.com website. There's lots of great info on both the renting part and the driving part. There are many special rules about winter driving.

There's good info on this RS website in the Travel Tips: Transportation. Drill down in those tips to find details like these Driving Tips and Road Rules

Driving in Italy is not for the faint of heart or the low budget traveler. Postings about getting tickets in Italy are commonplace. This very important paragraph is from the driving tips linked above:

"Car traffic is banned altogether in many Italian city centers, including Rome, Naples, Florence, Pisa, Lucca, Siena, San Gimignano, Orvieto, and Verona. Don't drive or park anywhere you see signs reading Zona Traffico Limitato (ZTL; often shown above a red circle). If you do, even briefly by accident, your license plate will be photographed, usually without your knowledge, and a hefty ticket — or tickets, if you did it multiple times — will be waiting for you at home."

The ZTLs alone provide tickets for many and keep many others from driving in Italy. Oh, and make sure you have a current International Driving Permit (IDP).

no criticisms

So you want us to confirm that a car in December will be always faster than trains?
Are we supposed to ignore that Venice-Padua-Bologna and Florence are connected by dozens of high speed trains each day running under the Apennines ?
That ZTL areas and regulated parking are a problem all over Italy for those coming from car-oriented countries?

Ok, safe travels and enjoy your holiday. You know what's best for you.

I was in Italy and Switzerland last month. I drove 1300 miles. Like anything else, prepare yourself. You probably know all this but...

Planning
-Start by planning your first drive from the rental pickup to your first destination. Go on Google Maps and see how long it will take to get there. You should be able to set the directions for a comparable day of the week and time that you will be traveling. Get a street view of the roads and actually scroll along the street to see what’s out there. I highly suggest this for all your trips and any confusing streets or interchanges on highways.
-Another great site for planning trips is Rome2Rio.com. Trips by car, ride share, train and bus (maybe ferries too?) can all be planned out on this site
-Look up the places you are staying. Do they have parking? Is it onsite or “nearby”. Is it free or “reasonably priced”?
-Your rental car will have a parking dial in it. Set the time on the cardboard dial and leave it on the dash. This is for timed parking not metered pay parking.
-Get your International Drivers License. The car rental place won’t ask for it, but the police will when they pull you over. It’s a hefty fine if you don’t have it.

Cellphones
-I’d suggest an international data plan or an Italian simm card.
-Learn how to use Google Maps while driving and NOT BE DISTRACTED. This means learning the app and loading your destinations before you go. Download the maps for offline use in case you loose a signal or run out of cell data. Google Maps will work with just GPS if you are on a downloaded map. You’ll even get turn by turn navigation.
-Bring accessories for your phone. An extra charging cord that you can leave in the car and a way to mount the phone so you can use it. I have an air vent mount that clings to the dashboard vent and has a magnet to connect to the one stuck on the back of my phone. This will not keep you from forgetting it on the dash. It happens. Put it together.

Paper Maps
-Buy one. You won’t use it, but you will gain the trust and respect of everyone riding with you.

Cars
-The one you “reserve” probably won’t be the one you get. You’ll get comparable or a step up. Ask to see the vehicle your renting to make sure it’s the right size for you. Many of these cars aren’t available in the US. I have a “thank god!”/ “no fair!” mindset on this.
-Sit in the car and learn the controls. Nothing worse than driving out into a rainstorm and not knowing how to turn on the wipers!
-Check the car meticulously for any body damage or scratches. Take pictures. Your memory isn’t as good as you think it is.
-Personally, I hate integrated GPS in cars, but if you are going to use it familiarize yourself with how it works. Change the voice to a British accent to make you feel more respectable.
-Ever owned a diesel before? Know what DEF is? Read up on it.
-When’s the last time you drove a stick? Which President? Reserve an automatic.

Driving
-Look up Italian roadsigns on the internet. You don’t need to memorize them, but become familiar with what they look like. Especially one way and no entry signs for hopefully obvious reasons.
-Italian drivers are not necessarily aggressive, but they do drive with intent. If you are hesitant, they will pull out in front of you, pass you or give you a honk if you are impeding them. Know where you want to go and go there.
-Drive with the traffic, but know the speed. It’s easy to start doing 160kph in a 140kph zone. At any rate, you’re there on vacation, not late for work. Don’t speed!
-Stay out of LTZ’s. Again, hefty fines for violating. These are special traffic zones restricted to local residents and businesses. It is their responsibility to terrorize pedestrians on tiny streets not yours!
-If you get lost, pull over anywhere safe and look at your phone in puzzlement. Dig out you handy paper map and remark to your passengers “Google doesn’t know everything!”
Ciao

Sorry, Esther (OP), but you don't get to control the advice you get from people on a free website. The burden is on you to just ignore what you don't find helpful.

Good luck.

For those of you who honestly wanted to Help and offered good advice - THANK YOU!

We are currently driving in Tuscany and were in Umbria last week. We love having a car to get between towns of our choosing and on our own time frame. It just requires extra planning and often some walking from public parking into the ZTLs. We rent our cars through Autoeurope since we can search who has the best rates and whether or not there is a one way drop fee. They are less plentiful, but we managed to get a great price from Rome to Venice with no drop fee. Just be aware that smaller roads may be icy/snowy. And do plan to use GPS.

Thank you, Becky. I appreciate the good advice.

Trip Report: we had a wonderful time in Italia and having a car allowed us to visit some many beautiful areas and see many wonderful sights (such as the beautiful Furlo gorge, incredible vistas) that would not have been possible via public transportation given our timeframe. Anyone who is comfortable driving in metro-area traffic like LA or Chicago (think fast, aggressive driving) should do fine in Italy.

Here are the biggest differences we noted:
1) Most intersections have roundabouts and not traffic lights – this really speeds things us and I loved them.
2) Italian drivers may tailgate but we saw no instances of road-rage (which is so common in the States). I found it was easy to pass other cars and people usually move to the right lane after they have passed.
3) Cars are tiny compared to their US counter parts but the small size was helpful in the ancient hill towns.
4) The largest road we traveled, the A1, only had two lanes.
5) When you are near an exit from the highway there will be a large sign with an arrow pointing down towards the right lane and another arrow painted on the road. In the US this would mean that lane is exiting but in Italy it was simply an early indication that you were approaching the exit.
6) City traffic can be chaotic – lots of cars trying to merge into the same space at the same time. Be patient and you will eventually get through it.
7) Snow chains are automatically provided with rentals.
8) Lots and lots of good signage for icy areas and curves – much more than you find in the US.
9) Fog was easy to drive in – but I grew up driving in tule fog in California so that is my benchmark for difficult visibility conditions.
10) Some of the service areas on the highways are very nice – clean bathrooms and good food. This was not true for all of them but compared to the States we were very impressed!

Navigation: we had one driver and one navigator who used GPS + GoogleMaps + paper maps of the ZTLs. We took time to map out routes the night before whenever we were visiting a town with ZTLs. GPS was useful for the overall route and for locations where we did not have cell service, Google was needed to locate specific parking lots (e.g. the free park-and-rides near the train stations) and Airbnbs. It would be difficult but doable to do this on your own – I can imagine doing it myself knowing I would have to pull off the road 4-6 times per trip to check the maps.

Tollbooths: the automated credit card machines required a PIN so we always went to the ‘peopled’ booth. Look for a sign with an outstretched hand and some coins. Tolls were reasonable – the most we paid was ~9 euros on the day we drove from Assisi to Firenze.

Train: we also took the train a couple of times – and it was fine (though I was not thrilled with the dirty bathrooms – the same issue we find with Amtrak) but not necessarily the cheapest way to travel if you take the high-speed trains. Here is one example where keeping the car would have made more sense, we picked up a rental car in Firenze, the airport location, and later returned it to the same location to avoid a one way 80 euro fee to drop the car off in Padua. To get to the Firenze train station from AVIS cost 28 euros for the taxi (22 for the ride and 2 euros per each bag – though earlier we had a driver that only charged 1 euro per bag). The high-speed train cost us 98 euros and was not much fun (first half of the ride is through dark tunnels so you cannot see the countryside). So we paid 46 additional euros via the train while the gas for rental car would have been about ~20 euros more. This is all part of the ‘live and learn’ process for us and will help us to plan for next time.

ZTLs: not all ZTLs have cameras and some you are allowed to drive into if you are staying in a hotel/Airbnb (Check before you go!). We stayed in a fabulous home in Assisi in the historical ZTL area. There were no cameras (as of December 2019) and our host told us that the local police would let us through if we gave them the Airbnb address. We drove in and out of Assisi without any problem for three days (tiny streets crowded with tourists but still pretty easy to drive).

Hope this helps you plan for your trip - Enjoy!