European Union may require visas for American and Canadian visitors

This is certainly an interesting and unexpected development.

In reading the article, my first impression was that perhaps the Visa issue was being used as a political ploy to apply pressure with the free trade agreement or other issues. I'm sure the Europeans are well aware that such a move could have a disastrous effect on their tourist industry, and perhaps encourage similar moves to institute Visas for Europeans coming to this part of the world. This sort of thing always has consequences.

It ain't gonna happen.

The Daily Mail loooooves to headline stories like this.

The two most important sentences from that non-story:

The European Union executive is considering whether to...

Whether such a step was practical, however, was in question given that it would seriously undermine the EU's vast and lucrative tourist industry.

Since only a couple of EU States (Bulgaria and Romania) are not part of the US visa waiver program and are required to have a visa, the way to handle this on the basis of reciprocity is to require Visa from people of certain US States or Canadian provinces to have a visa.

For example the EU should require people from British Columbia, Canada and from Texas and Alabama (or some other state) to have a visa. While the others could continue to go to the EU without.

Texas already requires a visa for Californians.

This has been bubbling around since 2008. The requirement for a visa would be placed only on “certain categories of US nationals”, ie diplomats but this report for whatever reason doesn't mention that.

The real growth seems to be in psuedo-visas, such as ESTA / ETA etc.

LOL, I quit reading as soon as I got to dailymail.co……

The real growth seems to be in psuedo-visas, such as ESTA / ETA etc.

I wouldn't rule that out, Marco.

It's not unheard of, in 1988 France required full visas from all Americans. Required two trips to Kensington High St.

http://www.nytimes.com/1988/12/01/world/france-to-lift-its-visa-policy-for-us-citizens-by-year-end.html

Marco, are you sure the DM purposely omitted something? This is not 2008 anymore.

If anything significant happens on April 1`2 there will certainly be more reliable sources reporting it.

I am betting - this is not going to happen. Not only the whole EU will not require visa from Americans and Canadians but not even Bulgaria, Romania and Poland will require visa from the citizens of USA and maybe even Canada. Who would be punishing who? By requiring visa from US those countries would lose more than the US. Several years ago citizens of C.R. needed visa to visit USA and Canada but C.R. reciprocated only against Canada.

Ilja, I'm not too sure about that. Canadians have been an increasing threat.

Note the article states Great Britain and Ireland, which are EU countries, have an opt-out clause. For some reason the other 26 do not. This will be an interesting part to watch. Potentially we may need visas for traveling to all EU counties except Ireland, Scotland, Wales, and England. Of course that means nothing to people with trips to Italy planned, but it will be an interesting development.

But you would need a visa for Northern Ireland? Odd

LOL I think it is odd that there is an opt-out clause for a few countries but not all 28. What is the purpose of that?

Whatever, since Italy is not one of them I have to follow this story as it develops.

Texas already requires a visa for Californians

But then Texas is really like a foreign country even to Americans.

So if it is the Daily Mail it MUST be true.

Sort of like stories in the National Enquirer. It's a national newspaper, too.

The recent Cinque Terre flap comes to mind?

The New York Times has a article on it also

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/08/world/europe/european-union-to-consider-requiring-visas-for-us-travelers.html?_r=0

Saw that one too.

The fact that this dispute has been blowing hot and cold since 2008 doesn't stop the first step as it comes to a final head to affect diplomats, as this is symbolic and affects directly relatively few people. Of course it could then be escalated further and it isn't impossible that total intransigence could make things move more quickly.

The Visa Waver Program finally came about at least in part because the USA continued to require visas from so many nationalities for a tourist visit where American citizens didn't need one for the reverse journey. The UK for one, which had been visa free since WWII and it was a constant source of friction.

Yes, the EU is seriously considering requiring visas for Americans and Canadians. No, it is highly unlikely to be implemented. Countries like France and Italy are not going to risk their tourism industry over Poles and Bulgarians ability to travel to the US without visas.

This story has now migrated to all the regular news channels, with the implementation of Visas almost seeming imminent. Part of the problem seems to be the E.U. Charter regarding all members being entitled to the same benefits, and something called a "delegated act". It could be embarrassing for them if they don't stand up for Romania and Bulgaria to ensure they get the same benefits as other E.U. members. I imagine there's some serious "hand wringing" taking place among those trying to work out a solution for this, especially as the soon-to-be ratified CETA is a factor in this as well.

If the Visas are implemented, I imagine that some consequences will result from this. According to the news here yesterday, B.C. has seen a record number of tourists from Europe in the last few months. If they all have to get Visas in future, no doubt our tourist industry will also be affected. The solution will no doubt be related to money, as that's always the most important factor in a lot of disputes of this type.

A Romanian member of the E.U. didn't have too many kind words for Canadians in the first of these articles.....

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/eu-visa-romania-bulgaria-trade-ceta-1.3526513

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/eu-doesn-t-expect-canada-to-meet-visa-deadline-1.2850741

I knew this was going to be bad for EU countries that get lots of Canadian visitors. every year. However, I don't think anyone has been considering the effect on Canada's tourism industry except Romanians and Bulgarians.

Ken, I found this line interesting:

"Canada's visa policy is not based on reciprocity. Rather, Canada must be satisfied that countries meet its criteria for a visa exemption,"

I wonder what specific criteria is not being met?

Of course it is not going to happen. Not even EU bureaucrats would be that foolish.

But when I read the news article, my first thought was: I already use VISA but what about American Express?

LOL Roy I have Visa cards too; But one thing I learned on this forum is no credit cards are very useful in Italy.

Although the economic consequences are obvious, there must be a reason the EU wants to do this. What benefit will Europeans get if American and Canadian travelers are required to get visas? Why would they even be talking about this if there is nothing to be gained except visa reciprocity for Romanian, Bulgarian, and Polish travelers?

Kathy,

From what I can gather, the Canadian issues include "migration issues, security of travel documents, public safety, border management and human rights." In "reading between the lines" I suspect they also want to restrict access to the criminal element from both Romania and Bulgaria.

The E.U. bureaucracy has to act by April 12 according to their rules, and I suspect they will at least go through the motions of implementing Visas, simply as a way of applying leverage. We'll see next Tuesday.....

What are the American issues? Unlike Canada, Poland is also on their visa required list, so I suspect they are not exactly the same.

Ken, yep, I know about the April 12th date but not how the 'criteria' issues are being addressed. My gut is that similar concerns apply to the U.S., and that a vote to object will not pass for all sorts or reasons - economic impact being a biggest chunk of it. But it'll be an interesting thing to watch!

Travelling woman, EU membership is not about visa requirements. Visa requirements fall under the umbrella of the Schengen agreement., so there is free passage inside the Schengen group. The UK is not part of the Schengen group of states. EU is about trade, tarriffs, economics generally.

So why is the EU talking about this if it has nothing to do with visa requirements?

Most likely scenario is the EU trying to pressure Washington and Ottawa to include all EU States in the Visa Waiver program.

Nothing wrong with that. US and Canadian citizens can go to the EU without a visa regardless of which State or Province they are from. The same should apply to the EU citizens visiting the US and Canada.

I think that one might take a deep breath on this one. The EU has no capacity for issuing or assessing visas. Individual countries issue visas, depending on whether the visitor's state has a visa waiver protocol in place with the first country in Europe where they will enter.

Even if citizens of the USA are ultimately required to obtain visas, the additional administrative resources would take months to put in place. That will not happen overnight.

I'm sure the hand wringing will increase to a feverish pitch by next Tuesday when the E.U. has to make their decision. I'm sure they are well aware of the consequences to their tourist industry. Based on a few posts I've seen here on the forum, there may have already been some contraction on the number of travellers heading to Europe following the Paris and Brussels airport attacks.

As others here have noted, it would take some time to implement these changes, so travel for this year will probably be unaffected. If the U.S. and Canada choose NOT to retaliate with similar Visas for European visitors (except for the few countries that are presently restricted) that will present an interesting situation.

Hopefully this is just bluster and enough EU member states like Belgium (which is on thin ice itself for the US VWP), Italy, and France will pressure the EC to back off.

Poland doesn't qualify because too many of its citizens overstay their visas or come here on tourist visas and take up illicit employment (only half of the undocumented workers in the US are from Mexico). I suspect it's similar with the other countries. Those comparing EU member states to US states or Canadian provinces seem to misunderstand that US states and Canadian provinces aren't separate countries. The EU is an alliance of independent nations and is not itself a country (or if it wants to be one, then let all 28 member states withdraw from the UN and create a single seat for the EU).

Oh! The European Union is not one country like Africa? I had misunderstood that! Thank God for ka who made it clear for me? But then why is the EU making trade deals and has a trade policy as one entity instead of as individual nations? Or why did they institute the Schengen treaty with a common visa entry policy? Does it mean that although they are independent states they could, if they wanted it, expect their citizens are treated the same whether they are from Poland or Spain? Or could they have one passport that simply says European Union and doesn't even mention the name of the State? They could actually. EU passports are already all the same color (burgundy) and already say European Union on top.

Tongue firmly in cheek there, Roberto? :O)

Now we know Canada is not cooperating with the EU, but what about the United States? Are Americans expected to need visas if the EU passes a delegate act on Tuesday?

I really hope this does not happen. This is a bad year to travel to Italy in November if 15 countries don't vote to block this delegate act.

I'm not sure that the European Union has any jurisdiction here. The EU "zone" and the Schengen "zone" are not the same zone. Britain and Ireland are part of the EU, but not part of Schengen: Norway and Switzerland are part of Schengen, but not in the EU. And, of the countries in question, Poland is the only one in both. Bulgaria, Romania, and Cyprus (part) are members of the EU, but not yet part of Schengen. Croatia is not a part of either.

Right now, only the EU countries of Bulgaria and Romania are excluded from the US visa waiver. Virtually the entire rest of Europe are part of the reciprocal agreement. The obvious result of the EU requiring visas from the US and Canada would be the US and Canada requiring visas for citizens of the other 25 Schengen countries. How are citizens of Germany and France going to react to the consequences on them of the EU visa change?

Will Switzerland, which is not part of the EU and very independent of them, continue to allow those from the US and Canada to come in with only a passport? Unless the EU reinstitutes border controls around Switzerland, which would affect free travel for all European, Americans and Canadians will be able to come in through Switzerland (or Norway) and continue to travel throughout Europe unimpeded. The logistics of trying to implement this are daunting.

Lee, Canada only requires visas from Romainans and Bulgarians, but Poles also need them to enter the U.S.

Why is only part of Cyprus in the EU? How is that possible?

Because the EU made this up and reports stated visas will be required in 26 of its 28 countries, I assume non-EU countries don't have anything to do with it even if they are in the Shengen zone. If I am wrong about this, it does not make any sense. Of course, if a nation is not part of either, nobody needs more than a passport there regardless of what happens.

Why is only part of Cyprus in the EU? How is that possible?

.... because part of Cyprus is in Greece and part is in Turkey.

.... because part of Cyprus is in Greece and part is in Turkey.

The above statement is incorrect.

Cyprus is an independent State called "Republic of Cyprus", which is independent since 1960 (it was previously a British Crown Colony since the fall of the Ottoman Empire).

The northern part, occupied by Turkish forces in 1974, is a self declared Turkish Cypriot Republic which is recognized by Turkey only. The rest of the international community, through several UN resolutions, has declared the Northern part illegally occupied by Turkey.

From what I read this won't affect 2016
Vote has been delayed until July 12th
"But any change would not go into effect immediately, because a majority of governments, and the European Parliament, would have six months to block the move"

So if it were to happen at all this is a 2017 issue
I still can't imagine this being approved it seems Europe has more to lose than the US here overall.

I am not worrying about it, just stating an opinion.

Now that April 12 has come and gone with no further updates, should we assume the visa requirement will become effective this fall if it is not blocked within the next six months?

No, on April 12th they agreed to delay the vote
"Vote has been delayed until July 12th"

If the vote passes it will make big headlines everywhere and you will hear about it on your local news, if it gets turned down or delayed again you won't.
If the vote passes, that would start the 6 month clock, so impossible to affect 2016

I think what they're not saying is that this is all part of the refugee crisis underway in the EU.

IIRC, didn't we have to have visas for France about 15 years ago for a while?

Thank God. I did not want to wait until October to find out we have five weeks to get visas.

However, it could affect us next year because we probably will take a river cruise.

But travelers to the U.S under the VWP have to have been ESTA approved (valid for two years). I guess I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the E.U. came up with a similar eligibility system versus a full visa.

There was an article about the visa situation in the paper this morning, with the headline "Canada, EU trying to avoid visa crisis." The article stated that "the European Parliament and Commission will have four months to block the visa move if a majority vote in either of those bodies fails to uphold it" and concluded by stating that Canadian officials are heavily engaged in talks with Romania, Bulgaria and the European Commission.

Like many situations of this type I expect some compromise will be necessary by all parties, but changes will not implemented for awhile.

Can you post a link to that article for the Canadian forum members?

The article was in the Kelowna Daily Courier and I don't believe it's possible to read online without a subscription. I subscribe to the print edition, as I still like to browse an "old fashioned newspaper" every day.