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Dumb move?

I have a flight from JFK to Milan (MXP) in August that arrives at 8:25 AM. I pick up my lease car there. It was my plan to drive to our apartment in a hill town outside Florence the same day, about a 4 hour drive. Bad move? Will the jet lag make this a not so smart idea?

Posted by
23178 posts

It all depends on how well you handle jet lag. Hopefully you will have someone to keep you awake. Last year we flew from JFK to Rome, picked up a car and drove to Florence. It was a struggle even with a couple of stops for an espresso.

Posted by
3696 posts

If you can sleep on the plane you will probably be OK for a few hours. Can you be flexible at all in case you need to pull over for a roadside nap? I often drive the first day, but if I feel at all drowsy I will find a way to nap. Often times there is a huge burst of adrenalin upon arrival, but that will wear off:)

Posted by
2261 posts

If you don't know how you will handle jet lag, then planning to spend a night seems the prudent choice, in particular with a four hour drive. A jet lagged driver is an impaired driver. Plenty to do and see in Milan for a day.

Posted by
1090 posts

Agree with others that it all depends on how you handle jet lag. We will usually travel our first day though if we are going to another destination since you can't check into the hotel that early anyway. A couple of years ago we landed in Rome and drove the Ravello that same morning. My husband did great with the driving, but I got a little cranky by that point from lack of sleep.

Posted by
10344 posts

The medical studies on pilots showed that even when pilots subjectively "felt fine" after a long flight, their driving reaction times were impaired, apparently similar to if they'd been drinking.

For years, some tourists have just been jumping into cars and driving on longer drives, in conditions that were more confusing than at home, and in cars with which they were not familiar.
Usually people luck out (even they they have blown right by the issue)--but sometimes people aren't lucky..

In the end it's your call--how lucky do you feel? It's obviously a potential safety issue, regarding both injury issues and potential financial liability.
Get all the insurance you can.

Posted by
4637 posts

Jet lag, lack of sleep, driving in unfamiliar area and also not really short drive are factors to consider against your plan. Personally I think to drive right after you land is like pulling devils tail and I would not do it.

Posted by
11247 posts

Why don;t you rent your car in Firenze? Take the train to Firenze from Milano and make your drive shorter by far. You can nap on the train, too.

Posted by
5835 posts

The rental car should have property and person liability insurance. If you have full collision damage waiver and a travel insurance policy with medical evacuation, why not make the four hour drive to a hill town? At least you will be doing it during local daylight hours and you will be on North American East Coast time rather than Pacific Coast time.

Posted by
325 posts

I don't think the research on pilots is entirely applicable, there's one very big difference. The pilots are (hopefully) awake, alert, and working in what can be a stressful job during the flight. You won't be, you can relax and sleep. I would agree with the others who say it depends on your personal conditions such as how well you handle jet lag, whether and how much you can sleep during the flight, etc.

My iinternet alter ego identity disguises it, but I am also a "Jim in VA"

Posted by
9363 posts

While it's not Italy, I have done exactly that in Ireland - with the added pressure of driving on the other side of the road. I can sleep at least a couple of hours on the plane, and I haven't had a bit of problem driving for several hours on arrival in the morning. I would do the four-hour drive without hesitation, but I know myself. You will arrive early enough that you pretty much have all day to get there, so you have time for stops. Evaluate how you feel on arrival. You don't mention your age, but that can be a factor, too. For me, the adrenaline of arriving in Europe gets me a long way.

Posted by
10344 posts

The medical studies on pilots (after their trans-oceanic flights) suggests it doesn't matter "how you feel." You're still driving impaired.
That's the dangerous part of this.

Posted by
9462 posts

"You can relax and sleep" during the flight. On airlines these days???? I don't find long flights too relaxing, what with being stuffed in like a sardine, and if I get some sleep, it's spotty at best.

Of course if one is fortunate enough to travel in business or first class (or fly with Warren Buffet on his private plane), I suppose one could "relax and sleep" during the trans-atlantic flight, in which case one would be much more rested and alert upon arrival.

Posted by
792 posts

I'm 63. I did this last year on a trip to France, drove a couple hours after morning arrival, no problems. But it was not four hours. Reason why Milan instead of Florence is because the ticket was way cheaper and the lease is through AutoEurope, which has pickups only in Milan or Rome. Will be accompanied by my wife, we both have IDP's.

Posted by
7011 posts

I think you'll be fine, especially if you've driven after a flight before. Jet-lag, if you are majorly affected by it, doesn't usually set in right away anyways. I've driven more than 4 hours after an international flight but then I don't suffer too much from jet-lag (know that from years of experience) and I sleep pretty well on overnight flights. You know yourself best, so if you feel comfortable with it, then go for it.

Posted by
15043 posts

I think you can handle it. By the time you leave MXP it will be later in the morning, maybe 10:30am.
When I arrive in the morning, I generally get hit by the jet lag after lunch. I really have a hard time staying awake after eating lunch. If you eat along the way at an Autogrill, you might feel the need to stop for a nap at a service area along the way. The drive is sleep inducive because between MXP and Bologna is a flat plain and the freeway is straight. If you can manage to avoid eating lunch until arrived, you might be able to stay awake more easily. The section of the freeway through the Apennines mountains between Bologna and Florence is treacherous and that is where you need to be alert. The curves are soft, but there are tons of tunnels which might put you to sleep because they are darker, and there are hundreds of trucks, one after the other, lined like a freight train, and when they want to pass those truck drivers will simply jump on your lane and cut you off without caring about smaller cars.

Posted by
10344 posts

Probably not a good idea for laypersons to try to give medical advice, relating to personal safety, to others--based only on your own subjective experiences of what has worked for you in the past.

Since this is a medical question and there have been some studies--it's not a matter of your anecdotal experience or opinion based on what may have worked for you or what you've gotten away with.

Best to cite whatever medical evidence there is, and then move on and let the OP make their own decision.

Posted by
2261 posts

"Probably not a good idea for laypersons to try to give medical advice"

Kent, I have to say I don't see this as Roberto giving medical advice, it's just his two cents based-I presume-on the OP's later comment saying he had done this before.

Posted by
10344 posts

It's a medical and personal safety issue--I think we have to bend over backward to be careful on those. This isn't about whether you should take tylenol on your trip. Driving while impaired can have serious consequences, and we wouldn't want it to be based on something that we here encouraged someone to do.

Posted by
7011 posts

Kent, I'm sorry but I have to agree with Dave. The OP asked if his plan was a dumb move, he did not ask for medical advice and was not given any medical advice. The only type of advice we on this board (as fellow travelers) can give is from our own personal experiences. We are not here as 'experts' in any field. The OP asked for opinions and that's all he got.

EDIT And as for it being a personal and safety issue, I'd remind you that any time you get on a highway (anywhere, but especially in the US) about 20% of the other drivers on the road (and maybe yourself) are impaired in some way - be it lack of sleep or alcohol/drugs or just distracted by tech devices, etc.. I don't see it anywhere as a 'medical' issue.

Posted by
3696 posts

To equate everyone who does not sleep a full 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep in a comfortable bed to someone who is 'impaired' seems to be stretching it a bit. Maybe there was a study done of pilots... but again, some people do sleep on planes and only they can know if they are too tired to drive... and he is a passenger, not a pilot.

Posted by
693 posts

To those posters suggesting he fly or train to Florence, can you please explain how he would then pick up his car? It is a lease vehicle, NOT a hire vehicle, and you cannot collect these in Florence.

Posted by
23178 posts

This is not worth arguing about. Must be a slow day. If you sleepy, don't drive. I posted my experience in a similar situation. I would not go it again.

Posted by
32173 posts

Jim,

Whether it's a "dumb move" will probably depend on how well you're able to function after a long international flight. Each one of us is different in that regard.

I've driven right after a long flight in a jet lagged state, and while I haven't had any problems with that it's definitely a challenge (especially when driving in the U.K. on the "other side" of the road). Despite the best of intentions, I never seem to be able to get much sleep during flights for a variety of reasons, so that makes the driving even more difficult.

Even if one is able to drive while jet lagged, it's worth noting the points raised by Kent with respect to being impaired in circumstances like that.

Posted by
792 posts

Thanks Ken, I wouldn't dream of driving in the UK fully awake! I think I'll just stay the night in an airport hotel and get a fresh start the next day. Roberto's description of dozens of tunnels between Bologna and Florence got me thinking. I appreciate everyone's input.
I've got two months in Italy ... why push my luck.

Posted by
10344 posts

Jim in VA,
Smart move.
Enjoy your trip.
Regards,
Kent

Posted by
15043 posts

Did I give medical advice?
When?
As long as I'm not prescribing controlled substances from Schedule CII-V, I'm entitled to give any advice even without being a doctor.
Besides I work in a hospital, and I wouldn't advise anybody to take advice from a doctor. Doctors can kill you. Stay away from them.

Posted by
32173 posts

Jim,

I'm sure you've already got this covered, but don't forget to pack your International Driver's Permit. It's compulsory for driving in Italy. Also be vigilant to avoid the ZTL areas and speed traps.

Buon Viaggio!

Posted by
1064 posts

Jim,
If you have the time, spending the first night in Milan, though not at the airport, would not be a bad idea, as it would allow you time for sightseeing there. My preference would be to find an interesting place between Milan and Florence and spend the first night there.

Others may have different experience, but for me, jet lag has never kicked in until late afternoon. Even so, I try to limit time in a car to two to three hours so the trip does not feel like an endless journey.

I did an online search of international scientific journals and U.S. government reports – other governments' reports being unavailable – a while back and could find no supporting evidence for a link between jet lag and traffic accidents. If there is any out there, I would like to see it.

Posted by
792 posts

Thanks Roy. Perhaps Bologna, that is a half way point. I hear they have good food ;-)

Posted by
96 posts

I try to be very active before I start out. Then, as soon as I am on the plane I change my watch to the time I will be landing. And I try to act like that is the time now. Since I was very active, I also was a little tired. Got some good sleep and felt refreshed before landing. I have never had jet lag .....

Posted by
2898 posts

Hi Jim,

Since you've traveled and driven before, do what you think is best. You know yourself better than we do. Myself, we have no problems landing in Munich and driving at least 2 to 3 hours. Our normal first day is to arrive early am., drive to our destination and then stay fairly active until after having dinner.

Posted by
15560 posts

Kent's point and the point of the study he cited is that jetlag affects you mentally and physically. It's NOT a question of how much sleep you've had or how much stress you've been under. It's a biological reaction to the change in time.

The flight is probably about 8.5 hours. Realistically, how much sleep can you get? If the flight lands at 8.30, it probably leaves JFK around 6 p.m. Drinks and dinner service normally starts an hour into the flight and takes at least an hour. Then they're going to start serving some kind of breakfast not less than 1.5 hours before landing. That leaves 5 uninterrupted hours at best, beginning at 8.30 p.m. EDT - are you ready to fall asleep? Your body is on EDT, so it feels like 2.30 a.m. when you land. In my book, trying to pick up a car and make a long and difficult drive is a "not so smart idea."

Posted by
16893 posts

Jim, I recall that you are leasing the car through the French program and can only pick it up at Malpensa. If you feel jet lagged, pick up the keys and then go for a walk and/or a coffee until you feel ready to drive. There are many rest stops on the Autostrada where you can get fresh air, maps, or more coffee. Do plan your drive ahead, as well, using www.viamichelin.com or Google Maps at home. Like Ken, I have managed the driving after a flight, even in Britain, but probably the first thing I did was pull off the road to re-straighten my bearings.

Posted by
792 posts

Thanks Laura. I have indeed planned the route from MXP to Florence. I even used Google Street View to check out what is along the route. AutoGrill seems to be a nice place to stop along the way.

Posted by
7981 posts

It is simply irresponsible to do this after an all night flight. You may not care about your own family but you ought to have the decency not to risk the rest of us on the road. Take the train to Florence and pick up the car the next day. Most of the people who nod off and kill someone think they are 'fine to drive.' And driving in a foreign country with slightly different customs and rules of the road adds a layer of stress.

Posted by
7981 posts

It is simply irresponsible to do this after an all night flight. You may not care about your own family but you ought to have the decency not to risk the rest of us on the road. Take the train to Florence and pick up the car the next day. Most of the people who nod off and kill someone think they are 'fine to drive.' And driving in a foreign country with slightly different customs and rules of the road adds a layer of stress.

Posted by
693 posts

Janettravels44.

Regardless of what you think of his plan, he CANNOT pick the car up in Florence. It is a lease car not a hire car.

Posted by
1064 posts

Where is the evidence that people are nodding off and killing themselves and others on the road because of jet lag? There is none. There has been no blip in traffic accidents and deaths linked to jet lag, and no one has come forward with personal knowledge of such accidents, or even news accounts of that happening. We are talking about flights arriving in the morning, and drivers departing after rush hour and arriving at their destination later the same morning or early afternoon, at the latest. Statistically, that is the safest time of the day to drive. Beyond that, yes, jet lag can be a problem, but most people are mature enough to recognize their limits and stop before reaching them.

If this were a legitimate concern for highway safety officials, there would be an international push for laws to forbid overnight airline passengers from driving the day of arrival. That is not happening because there is absolutely no evidence that jet lag is causing carnage on the highways.

Posted by
107 posts

Jet lag is an individual thing. We think its best you stay and rest in Milan or pick a two hour ride only. You will be tired and you need a good partner to help. The roads are different and you don't want to get lost.
We traveled upon arriving in Rome , picked up car, (which took awhile by the way), drove to Orvieto, about two hours and were glad to stop there for the night, then on to Florence the next day. Good Trip!

Posted by
792 posts

I'll just see how I feel after the flight. Like I said I did this after a morning arrival in France last year and had absolutely no problems. One usually gets an adrenaline rush arriving in a new country. The lease car has GPS and my wife and I both have smartphones. Getting lost isn't going to happen.