Drive or train?

David, you may get different votes on this but my own would be no, not worth the rental. You will not want a car in Rome, will probably be taking ferries around Como, and a car is of no benefit at all in the CT. The only thing you'd probably use it for is to drive from Rome to Como, and then to somewhere just to park it during your time in the CT. You can get to both just as quickly and easily by train.

A car is nice is for exploring the countyside of, say, Tuscany or Umbria, but can be an expensive hassle for trips which focus on towns/cities with driving (ZTL) and parking restrictions.

Thank you, so we would take a train from Rome to Como then Como to CT, then back to Rome. Do they have a pass or do we buy each segment individually?

A pass would be very bad bargain, especially when you are so smart to buy your tickets well in advance (up to four months before departure date) on www.trenitalia.com/tcom-en Process is easy: payment by credit card and an emailed pdf for printing at home. Don't forget to use the Italian originals for the place names.

Thank you......so 2 nights on the lake in Belagio and 4 in CT should be ok to get an idea of the places.

Yes, that timing works fine, or you could split it equally. You could also do them in either order, depending on where you go from there. Trains from Rome to Varenna-Esino station take 4.5 hours with a connection at Milan, then a ferry from Varenna to Bellagio. From Rome to Vernazza in the Cinque Terre also takes 4.5 hours, with a change at La Spezia.

As others say - your itinerary is absolutely for train. Car is a big hassle in Rome and Cinque Terre and it is not needed around Lake Como.

David

For where you are going the train would be better in my opinion.

I know this wasn't your question and there may be details of other travel plans you did not list. However if you are only doing the listed destinations is there any reason for flying to Rome and then going to North Italy? Why not fly into and out of Milan?
My assumption is you would fly out of MSP. Both Milan and Rome require 1 stop (Delta). And from dates I picked out of the air this summer a flight to Milan was several hundred dollars cheaper than flying via Rome.

I'll check into Milan..... We love Rome and we're taking a cheap round trip flight to Athens from here.

" 4 in CT "

David, we LOVE the CT, but 2 days is plenty. What time of year?

David, I know that you didn't ask about this either but are you spending any time at all in Rome?

And maybe get yr lodging in varenna & just take the ferry to bellagio forr one day?

David,

I agree with the others that travel by train is a far better option, especially after a long international flight. Using the high speed trains that travel at up to 300 km/h will be much quicker than any car, and no worries about getting an I.D.P., avoiding ZTL areas, parking, tolls, speed cameras, etc.

It would have been more efficient to fly inbound to Milan and outbound from Rome, but if you've already bought your tickets then you'll have to go with what you have. Your arrival day is probably going to be somewhat of an ordeal, after travel from Rome / FCO to Bellagio. As someone else mentioned, you could shave 30-60 minutes off the travel time by staying in Varenna rather than Bellagio. That would also reduce the travel time slightly from Lago di Como to the Cinque Terre. Which of the five C.T. towns will you be staying in?

The trip from the C.T. to Rome is very easy if you use one of the direct trains from La Spezia Centrale to Roma Termini (travel time is about 3H:45M). It only takes a few minutes from whichever of the towns you're staying in to La Spezia.

As you've never been on the trains, there are some potentially expensive "caveats" to be aware of. If you need more information on that, post another note here. One point to be aware of is that many places in Italy have more than one station, so you must know the station you're using when you buy tickets. You'll also have to do some "homework" on the subject of changing trains.

Fly into Milan
Train to Bellagio Como (now looking into Varenna )
Stay for 3 nights
Train to CT
Stay for 3 nights.
Train to Milan and Fly to Santorini
Stay 3 nights.
Fly to Rome
Stay 3 nights.
Fly home from Rome.
* Yes to ROME and this will be April 20-May9 (is the time I have off)

David,

Your revised Itinerary looks more reasonable. A few thoughts.....

• Flying into Milan will save you a lot of travel time. When you arrive at the airport rail station, buy tickets to Varenna-Esino. You'll first take the Malpensa Express to Milano Centrale, and then transfer to the train to Varenna. When you check the electronic departures board, the destination may not be shown as Varenna, but rather Tirano or Sondrio. Varenna is an intermediate stop on that line. Travel time from the airport to Varenna is 2H:10M, depending on which train you connect with..
• DON'T forget to validate your ticket prior to boarding each train, or you'll risk hefty fines which will be collected on the spot! NOTE that the Malpensa Express has two destinations, Milano Centrale or Milano Cadorna, so BE SURE to board the correct train.
• The trip from Milan to Varenna is 1H:03M. The train will go through a tunnel just before arrival. BE READY to disembark promptly as the train doesn't stop for long. There will likely be others getting off in Varenna, but if not make a note of how to release the door.
• You have to go through Varenna to get to Bellagio, so it's just as easy to stay there and will save a bit of time on the outgoing journey.
• The ticket Kiosk in the Varenna station may or may not be working. You can always buy tickets at the helpful Tivano Tours office in Varenna. If my memory is correct, their office is just below the station although I'd heard rumours they've moved into the station.
• Before offering advice on the trip from Varenna to the Cinque Terre, I'd need to know which of the five C.T. towns you plan on staying in? Each of us here has a favourite, and I always prefer to stay in Monterosso.
• For your flight from Milan to Santorini, you could look at easyJet however they only offer flights on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays in May. Note that easyJet uses MXP Terminal 2, so you'll have to know that when taking the Malpensa Express to the airport.
• You could also look at Aegean Air but they will likely be more expensive. I've flown with both and would recommend both.
• For the flight from Santorini to Rome, you could again look at Aegean (one stop in Athens). There may be other airlines but I didn't check.
• To get to FCO from Rome, you can use the Leonardo Express which makes the trip in about 32 minutes and no worries about traffic delays. Fare is about €15 PP as I recall. Again, DON'T forget to validate your ticket prior to boarding the train on the day of travel, or you'll risk hefty fines.
• You'll also need to get used to validating tickets for the Metro, Buses, etc. Tickets for the fast trains such as the Freccia or Intercity don't have to be validated, since the tickets have compulsory seat reservations that are specific to train, date and departure time. With the fast trains you can only use the train listed on your ticket. If you board the wrong train by mistake, you'll again be subject to hefty fines.

That should cover the trains. Which places do you need hotel suggestions for? Again, it's impossible to suggest hotels in the Cinque Terre without knowing which of the five towns you want to stay in.

If you have a Library or larger bookstores in your town, you may want to have a look at guidebooks for each of the places you'll be visiting. The Rick Steves books cover Lake Como, the Cinque Terre and Rome, and you could look at Lonely Planet or some of the others for Santorini. The books have a lot of good information that will help with your trip planning.

Well, now my head is spinning. I'm now thinkg of flying in and out of Rome, renting a small car and just driving. Fly Rome to Santorini and if we can layover in Athens as we have a few extra days. We will stay in Varenna and Monteroso in CT as many have recommended.

I'm now thinkg of flying in and out of Rome, renting a small car and
just driving.

David, I'm curious why after virtually everyone who has responded has advised against it? And why fly in and out of Rome if you are only going to Lake Como and the CT? Again, are you planning on spending any time at all in Rome itself or were you planning on heading back there just to fly out again? I'm not clear on that.

You would waste a lot of time flying into Rome only to spend ALL DAY getting to Varenna. That would only leave you one full day to explore the lake area.

Flying into Milan and taking a train from there just makes so much sense.
Editing to add: or by "just renting a small car and driving" you mean throw your CT/Como plan out the window and go with NO plan?

I'm looking into a one way car rental from Milan to Rome.
The trains seem to take time and planning and regulations and making sure I get to the right station etc. I know it's probably fine, but the comfort and freedom of driving is something I'm accustom to.
The way it looks now is fly into Milan and rent a car, drive to the lake and spend 3 nights we then drive to CT for 3 nights then drive to Rome. We intend to drop the car at the airport and fly direct to Santorini for 3 nights, then fly back to Rome with an overnight stop in Athens. We will then spend 3 nights in Rome before returning home (with no car).

....but the comfort and freedom of driving is something I'm accustom
to...

But it's not the same in Italy as it is in Minnesota (and I live in a suburb of Minneapolis). You haven't encountered a ZTL or hotels which provide no parking or highway/road cameras which can catch a tourist slightly speeding or driving in a forbidden bus lane. And then you get a ticket (or more) a year after the fact. For the novice, the trains are just so much more forgiving.

Why pay for a car that you will not touch if taking the ferries around Como or the trains/ferries around the CT?

There are RS posters who enjoy traveling by car but it can depend on where one intends to go and/or if they already have a handle on the rules and regs of driving in Italy. It's up to you but personally we've found efficient and inexpensive public transit to be one of benefits of travel (to many places) in The Boot.

Up to you but for your trip, I really think that a car is going to be wasted $$$.

Do not underestimate Kathy's advice. You may think there are daunting regulations for train travel (how to use different types of tickets, reading train schedules, etc.), but it's child's play compared to knowing the regulations for driving.

Take a look at the seat.61 website, or look at RS' guidebook with illustrations of tickets, schedules, etc., and then make up your mind.

I work in a psychiatric unit, so I'm good at driving people crazy! ;-) it's a good thing I'm planning now with a few months lead time, so I can change my mind several more times. I thank all of you for all this great information. Eventually I hope to buy into the train idea, it's the logical choice. I'll need to do as Ken said and do a bit of studying on them. Now to decide where to stay. I think I'll also follow the advice I got here on the towns to stay in CT and the lake.

LOL, you'll be fine with the trains, really. Figuring out public transit is probably the only thing I dislike about travel (other than long flights) but Italy's rail system is not that difficult once you get your head around it. We'll help!

I'm guessing you work at Mayo or one of the clinics?

David,

While the information I posted earlier on the trains might sound complicated, it's not really that bad once you get used to it. If I can figure it out, anyone can. One other point to keep in mind is that driving after a long flight in a jet lagged condition has been compared to impaired driving. Travel by train will be much easier and more relaxing!

If my previous comments had your head spinning, I have some further information on car rentals that should get it spinning up to synchronous speed.

It's important to note that for driving in Italy, each driver listed on the rental form must have the compulsory International Driver's Permit, which is used in conjunction with your home D.L. These are valid for one year, and easily obtained at any CAA/AAA office (two Passport-sized photos required, which may be provided by the issuing office). Failure to produce an IDP if requested can result in fines on the spot! Failure to pay the fines when requested may result in the rental car being impounded, and further charges for towing and storage. Have a look at https://it.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/local-resources-of-u-s-citizens/transportation-driving/ for more information on I.D.P's and driving in Italy.

You may also want to have a look at some of the other posts here concerning the dreaded Zona Traffico Limitato areas that are becoming increasingly prevalent in many Italian towns & cities especially Florence, which is almost saturated with automated ZTL cameras. EACH PASS through one of the automated Cameras will result in a €100+ ticket, which you won't know about until several months after you return home! This website provides more information - http://www.slowtrav.com/italy/driving/traffic_cameras_speeding.htm . I received a note from someone recently who got nicked with a few ZTL tickets in Italy, and by the time the matter was settled, it cost him over $700.

There's also the issue of parking tickets, high fuel costs, tolls and automated speed cameras including the devious Traffic Tutor system which measures not only instantaneous speed but also average between two points. Violate either or both parameter and expensive tickets will follow. You may also encounter automated fuel pumps that will only accept Chip & Pin credit cards. If you are ticketed in Italy, fines are again usually payable on the spot!

A GPS along with a good Map would also be prudent. Be sure to give some thought to the question of CDW and theft insurance. In Italy, buying CDW from the rental firm is usually compulsory, so coverage provided by credit cards may not apply.

My suggestion would be to use cars strategically to reach areas that aren't well served by public transit. For longer routes that are well served by transit, trains or even Buses will be much easier.

*(Compliments on working in the Psych unit. I was often a bit uneasy when picking up patients there).

David,

I ran out of room in the previous post. A few thought on places to stay in Varenna and Monterosso.....

There are quite a few choices in Varenna:

• Royal Hotel Victoria (very nice hotel right in the small town square)
• Albergo Milano (very popular so book well ahead)
• Albergo Olivedo (older property down by the Ferry dock - I haven't stayed there for a few years, but I recall the rooms being a bit dated but clean and comfortable)
• Hotel Villa Cipressi (also close to the main town square with somewhat of an "old world elegance")
• Eremo Gaudio (up the hill so not as convenient to restaurants and the lake, but great views!)

Check the RS guidebook for other ideas.

When staying in Monterosso, you'll have to decide whether to stay in the "new town" or the "old town". It doesn't really make much difference which area to stay as distances are short and the streets are mostly level so walking is easy. I prefer to stay in the "old town" as my favourite hotel is located there. Whatever you decide, book as soon as possible!

• Hotel Villa Steno (old town - my favourite, but it's incredibly popular so may be difficult to get a booking - sitting on their balcony with a glass (or three) of Prosecco and watching the views is a nice way to spend some time in the afternoon - they serve an awesome breakfast, the rooms are clean and comfortable and the AC really works!)
• Hotel Pasquale (old town - right on the main street at the exit to the tunnel - easy walk to the station)
• Hotel Porto Roca (far end of the old town - somewhat more "upscale" with incredible views and a swimming pool overlooking the ocean - at the start of the trail to Vernazza).
• Hotel La Spiaggia (new town, a short distance from the train station)
• Hotel Villa Adriana (far end of the new town but not a difficult walk to the main part of town - they also serve a good breakfast)

There are LOTS of other choices! Again check the RS guidebook. You can check this list but I'm not sure when it was last updated.....

http://rebuildmonterosso.com/visitors-information/

I see that flying into Milan using the trains to the lake and CT, Fly from Milan to Santorini and then back to Rome seem to be the best way to go. No Car! Just need to keep my wife to one carry on bag now and all will be fine.

The trains are easy. No need to worry about it. When you land in Milan, go to the train station and buy a ticket to the Lake. You can print out departure times from the airport. When you stop in Milano Centrale you change train tracks, like changing gates in an airport. You find the departure board and verify what track your next train leaves from then validate your ticket and walk to the track and wait for the train and destination city to appear then board, find your train compartment and seat and off you go. There is not 3 hour rule or arriving 90 minutes early. 30 minutes is enough time to arrive before your train. If you can figure out what gate to board, then you can figure out which track and train to catch. I know you can do it. I talked a friend of mine into a trip to Greece and Italy and she loved it. There is a great Gyro place just outside the station, with the train tracks to your back, exit the far or front of the building. It is in the building that faces both the street beside and in front of the station. It is a great place to grab a quick bite, gyro or kebab.

A few more benefits to taking the trains?

You can bring a picnic and you can even bring your own alcohol, if so inclined. Any number of RS posters have mentioned picking up a feast to enjoy during longer journeys.

Enjoying an adult beverage or two at sidewalk bars and cafes - great for some people watching - is part of our daily ritual. It's been great to be able to do that on our day trips and then hop a train to get home. That ritual would be toast if we had to deal with a car.

My husband - who would otherwise have to do all the driving - gets to take in the scenery versus keep his eyes glued to the road. He has mentioned many times how much he enjoys just sitting back and watching the world go by with no maps, signs (foreign ones, no less) or other drivers to have to pay attention to.

Trains often dump you out in the middle, or close to the middle, of the action where it can be difficult for cars to go.