Don’t drive in Italy

Bill, really sorry you had difficulties but all the pitfalls you mention have been discussed many, many times on the RS forums. It is good that you highlight them, though, as homework and awareness is essential to driving in Italy. All of the "variables" you list are reasons many of us recommend public transport whenever possible, especially for the cities.

We seldom drive in Europe. While living in Rome we did on occasion (only to leave the city) but it was always nerve wracking. We always say it takes two to drive in Italy! I would not drive alone unless in dire emergency.

I hope you do not get a ticket as a friend of mine did 9 months after his trip. I tried to convince him when we were traveling that we would be better off fulfilling his Tuscan countryside dreams with a private driver or Tours by Roberto, but like many Americans, he wanted to be in control and behind the wheel. He paid for that.

It is certainly true that for driving in big cities a car is not advisable, like I would not advise people to rent a car to visit Manhattan or Boston or DC, however to visit more rural areas a car is much more efficient.

Regarding your points.

ZTL- all such areas are very well signaled, when they are camera enforced the overhead camera apparatus is also very conspicuous. I’ve never had a ZTL ticket in spite of having driven thousands of miles in Italy. The fact I’m Italian is irrelevant, I’m not familiar with most ZTL areas except for Florence where I lived, in all other cities I also have to rely on round red and white signs.

Stressful Driving in cities-well that is true, but it is common to all cities, including San Francisco where I drive to work.

Speed Limits- I would gladly do without those. I’ve been pulled over by the California CHP for speeding and it is not fun. I tend to have a heavy foot so I fear speed limits the most. Regarding what you say, you may not have noticed them, but the speed limit is also signaled on the freeways, generally as soon as you enter the ramp. Toll freeways have generally a 130km/h limit, other 4+ lane divided highways, so called “superstada (no toll) generally have a 110km/h limit.

Gasoline-yes it costs twice as much, but cars are smaller and fuel efficient, and distances short. I bet few visitors who rent cars cover more than 1,000km (maybe 90€ in fuel costs), and I’m exaggerating, 1000km is from Milan to Calabria. Fuel costs are really an insignificant portion of your total trip expenditure in a typical 2 or 3 week trip to Europe, even if you rent a car the whole time.

So moral of the story is that one should be judicious in renting cars in Italy. Avoid it while visiting cities, but definitely take advantage of them in more rural settings.

Ohhh I so hear you. We drove in Ireland and it was sooooooo stressful. We will probably never drive in Europe again. And I’m from Atlanta and used to driving with traffic/crazy people. :)

I agree with Roberto. We chose not to drive in Rome and Florence, but had no problems in Siena. I wouldn’t drive in Naples or Bolagna.

I’m bewildered by the Autostada comment. Tha Autostrada between Rome and Florence is very well marked. There was never any doubt about the speed limit. In addition, our Garmin showed the speed limit and it agreed with the posted signs. We also stopped at Autogrills to stretch our legs and look around. We ate a great lunch there as well. Although I always observe the speed limit, stopping helped assure I wouldn’t get to the exit too quickly. Finally, I was well aware of standard speed limits on everything from villages to the Autostrada before I ever left home. Google is your friend.

I’ve driven on Interstates in a number of states all across America. Overall, I’d much rather drive with Italians on the Autostrada. Unlike dimwitted Americans, they stay in the right lane except to pass.

We had absolutely no problems with ZTLs. Every one we came across was well marked. I understand that a few places in Florence are confusing. That was one reason why we opted to take the bus into town.

We had some wonderful adventures that would have been hard or impossible to have with public transportation. Even private tours are somewhat constrained. Yes, gas is more expensive, but we spent less on gas in a week than one private tour would have cost. I loved driving in Italy and would do so again in a heartbeat. I went prepared, observed the laws of the land and had no surprises when I got home. We take public transportation whenever it makes more sense. Anyone who does a modicum of preparation and has the ability to understand and follow some simple rules and regulations should have no trouble.

Yes, I just LOVE reading comments about how rental cars give you SOOOO much more freedom...I'm thinking those people have a much different view of freedom than I have.

I might be driving in a different Italy, the one just south of Switzerland and Austria?

I am with you, Tim. I love the freedom of being car-free whenever possible!

You better strike it rich or become an important person so you can hire a local before trying to drive over there

I've driven in France, Czech Republic, Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, and Montenegro. I chose to drive only because the train service was poor or non-existent in the places I drove (in Normandy, driving around the D-Day sites by yourself pretty much means renting a car or hiring a private guide). I had some damage to a rental car in Dubrovnik, but otherwise my rental car experiences have been very positive.

But I've never been tempted to drive in Italy on any of my four trips there - because they have an excellent train network, and I love trains. I haven't spent much time in Tuscany (outside of Florence) and not yet to the Amalfi Coast, places where I could imagine renting a car briefly. I'm always baffled when tourists propose renting a car in Italy to get between/within the big cities - always seems like a huge hassle to me. I write it off either to rookie travelers from the US simply defaulting to US "rent a car mentality" (because the US mostly has a terrible train network) or basic fear/dislike of of public transportation no matter how great or convenient it might be.

bill,

As someone else mentioned, the pros & cons of car rentals in Italy have been discussed extensively on the forum over the years. The reasons you've given are all certainly valid, and those who simply rent cars without doing their "homework" will likely end up with fines. One thing you didn't mention was the need for each driver to have an International Driver's Permit as that's compulsory in Italy (fines for those who can't produce one if asked).

I tend to rent cars "strategically" to reach places that either aren't well served by public transit, or where the timing doesn't fit well with my schedule. I try to use trains and other pubic transit whenever possible, as that's usually the quickest and most efficient method to get from place-to-place (especially at 300 km/h). There are also a few potentially expensive caveats to be aware of when using trains, metro and buses in Italy, but again those who do their research will be aware of those.

Hahahaha! I’d post ‘Drive In Italy!”! I get what your issues are though. If you’ve been a bunch of times to the big cities, renting a car to see the non-mentioned RS sites are a must unless you can adhere to local bus schedules. Personally I find driving in Florence/Rome equivalent to much of city driving in Atlanta at peak hours, not so much LA/SF traffic where it’s just packed.

I find driving in Florence/Rome equivalent to much of city driving in Atlanta at peak hours

With all due respect, I've driven through Atlanta many times, including rush hour. While it does require a lot of attention, I feel that it pales in comparison to driving in either Florence or Rome. YMMV, of course.

Bill, if you want to travel freely, you need a better attitude. Sure, driving in Italy or any other foreign country needs some learning. Yes, some drivers have a problem with the elevated awareness needed for city driving. However, driving in Boston is just as difficult as driving in Italy and perhaps more so. Italian drivers are much less likely to drive with their egos and they make far fewer erratic moves, in my opinion. I've driven in most European countries and we visit Italy twice a year. I find it trivial to avoid the ZTLs, and I've gotten a ticket only once - in the early days of cameras when they weren't signed. I would encourage any experienced driver to get a car in Italy and experience a wonderful country. It's by far the best way to explore the rural areas and its smaller cities. It makes good sense to plan your trip to be car free in the big cities and use public transport there. Use the trains for long intercity journeys. However, if you miss Italy's countryside, the small towns, the small cities, you haven't seen Italy.

Well I have to say that I with all due respect to the OP I want to give a different view. Part of the problem is planning. There is no reason to have a rental car in the big cities of Italy or to drive in them. (However I think driving in Boston or Houston is worse by far)

I just want to give an alternate view.

I ENCOURAGE people to rent a car and drive. It’s a great experience and you will see and experience things you never would tied to the umbilical cord of public transport.

Driving in Italy is no worse than driving in most other countries. The roads are in many cases better than ours, they are very well marked. If you use the stations that are attended and or the ones along the autostrada your card will more than likely work. Here in Rome I find that the traffic is not as bad as I had expected. While I have been to Italy many times and driven here a lot this amazingly is my first time to Rome.

Some tips: Save your rental car time to explore the smaller more rural places if this is your first time driving here. Choose a pick up point for your rental car that is at an airport, They usually have well marked large highways in and out and are on the outskirts of cities. Or get your car at a train station that is near a major highway. For instance; I am visiting Florence, Rome and Naples all by train and public transit then I am renting a car for a month in Lecce (in the far south of the Puglia/Salento) where I have rented a house. There was no sense in my renting before that to see the big cities.

The gas pumps work pretty much the same as ours and are usually well marked and intuitive. Use attended stations for the first fill ups. Have cash on hand. But I have only had my cards not work at one station so far on this trip.

Rent a diesel car. The savings in fuel are tremendous as much as a dollar or more a gallon over gas here. Be sure you know the diesel pump handles...but they are clearly marked it would be hard to mistake them for anything else.

Don’t stress out. Take it easy and dont try to plan too much or schedule yourself too tightly for the return. I dont ever return a car on the day of my flight...too much can go wrong,

When in Rome...As the saying goes. Drive like the locals. If you are in Italy or France and Driving like a 80 year old North Dakota Farmer on a Sunday...well you are not going to have a good time. However DO mind the speed limit even if the locals don’t, It’s a balancing act that only takes a few hours to catch on to. (Note: I am not saying this is what the OP did just an example)

And your state of mind is crucial. Don’t go into the experience filled with dread and fear from what you have read online or heard from friends. Take a positive attitude and think to yourself ...this will be ok . No problem.

Now I admit that I am a bit different driver than many. I have driven in Morocco, Egypt, Cambodia, Thailand, Indonesia, all over Europe and quite a few other interesting places and so yes Europe is not so daunting to me. But my experience teaches me that really anyone can do it and have a good time just plan carefully, leave yourself plenty of time at pick up and drop off and GO!

I just got back from Italy yesterday. We rented a car for a week and I was very nervous after reading the horror stories. However, I found driving there an absolute breeze. There was only one situation where I was nervous an oncoming car and ours would blow of the side view mirrors. My advice to someone nervous about driving in Italy would be try driving in Ireland first. If you survive driving in Ireland, every other country will be a piece of cake. My advice is get a small car in Italy , and rent through Kemwel or Auto Europe with the zero deductible collision rate.

I know I didn't go into any restricted zones, but I am concerned about speeding tickets. The main highways had very few speed limit signs. Even though the locals were driving 30 mph faster than I was going, something tells me I have a better shot at speeding tickets than them.

I would like to assure all of those who have driven in Italy, that it is very unlikely you will get a speeding ticket on the Autostrada (speed limit 130km/h unless otherwise posted) or on the so called “superstrada”, the 4+ lane no toll divided highways like the one from Florence to Siena or the one Florence to Pisa Via Empoli (limit 110km/h unless otherwise posted). The former I mainly enforced by Tutor, which calculates average, and it’s very unlikely a North American tourist can keep that average speed. Both types are also enforced by live patrols, so if you haven’t been pulled over, you are probably safe. There are very few speed cameras on those highways.

The biggest danger with speed cameras in Italy is soon after you enter built up areas where the speed limit is always 50km/h even when the type of road calls encourages higher speeds. If you return the car at Hertz in Via del Sansovino coming from the A1 freeway, be careful on Viale Etruria. The speed camera there provides most of the annual budget for the City of Florence.

I'm puzzled that there is a debate here.

Renting a car isn't inherently a bad or good thing to do. It's a choice we sometimes make based on convenience, budget, and efficiency.

If you choose to rent a car, be aware of the rules of the road and the potential challenges. Everything is "different" when we travel to a "different" place. Preparation is key.

If you choose not to rent a car, that's perfectly fine. It may take you longer to get from point A to point B, and it might turn out to be too difficult or time consuming to get to point C. But it's your choice. If you have found driving a rental car to be excessively stressful, well who wants to go on an excessively stressful vacation???

Why is anyone trying to convince other travelers that they either should or should not rent a car? Do what works for you.

Why is anyone trying to convince other travelers that they either
should or should not rent a car? Do what works for you.

I agree with your whole post Lane. The OP has good warnings for those thinking about driving, and for most common tourist destinations in Italy, a car is neither necessary nor recommended. But plenty of people go places NOT on the standard tourist paths, and do need or want a car. Exploring small villages, wineries, rural areas, coastal regions,etc... are all very good times to have car. There has always been a segment of posters here that seem overly critical of anyone that would even dream of renting a car - frankly it is uncalled for and unhelpful.

Actually driving in Italy is fairly easy if you stay way from the major cities. We drove all over Tuscany with no problems and no tickets. And why do first time posters come here with bombastic recommendations as if they just discovered that they use cars and have roads in Italy?

Frank:

Some people simply have a hard time dealing with things that are different or work differently from what they are used at home.

I will never forget, many years ago, on a gray line tour bus near Salzburg sitting next to a gentleman I think from Mississippi who could not possibly understand how a country (Austria) could have freeway signs on a blue background instead of green like in America, and how that would have been so confusing for anyone trying to drive there.

My wife and I still laugh about those comments 20 years later.

At least he wasn't driving. I am reminded of the customer who demand loudly lemon pepper for her salad. After several attempts to please her including a fancy wrapped half lemon and a pepper grinder. She rudely shoved her salad to the middle of the table, loudly announced that she couldn't eat it without lemon pepper, didn't understand why they didn't have lemon pepper since she could buy it on any street corner in Utah. I suggested, politely, she might want to return to Utah - TONIGHT!

How many times have we seen American tourists who cannot imagine a country where things are different. Who has ever driven in a place in the US that has a city like Florence or Amsterdam or even Barcelona. But if they haven't ridden Greyhound or Amtrak, they've heard the stories. So it's just human nature that they think what they know is what they'll find.

It's really hard to imagine things that are totally out of your own experience. I remember working at a summer camp in northern Wisconsin many years ago. Staff week began in mid-June, followed by an 8-week camp. Northern Wisconsin can be cold and wet anytime, but in June it's pretty common. We always had a group of about 20 Israelis on staff. Every year the Israeli group leader (who had been to this camp for several years running) would meet with the group of newbies for orientation sessions about everything American, including weather. For me, living in Israel, winter clothes mean sneakers, long pants and long sleeves. I keep a fleece jacket and an umbrella in the car just in case. It never ever rains here from June to August. The Israelis simply couldn't imagine 45-50 degrees and pouring rain in summer and of course didn't bring suitable clothes. One year, the weather was so bad we had to go to a nearby (50 miles) army surplus store to buy winter coats for the group. Israel is small. You can drive from the northernmost to southernmost points in 7-8 hours. East to west in the center of the country is an hour and a half, without traffic. Israelis wanted to know if they could go to Niagara, NYC and Washington for on their 3-day break.

Israelis wanted to know if they could go to Niagara, NYC and
Washington for on their 3-day break.

Lordy, Chani! On travel sites which have active U.S. forums, I think people spend half their time educating foreigners about the sorts of distances they'll be dealing with. They can't get their heads around the size of our country when their own often can fit within a single state with room to spare! We've done a lot of traveling in the West/Southwest, and have heard over and over from visitors from abroad that they'd underestimated how vast that area of the country is.

Same with the difficulties of trying to travel much of the U.S. without a car. So, I guess managing expectations goes both ways, eh?

When a post is headed with a title like “Don’t Drive in Italy” I think it is the responsibility of those that have had significantly different viewpoints to counter what is a scary and definitive statement to many who may have never driven in Europe. It is not a debate it is a different point of view.

If one has never had the joy of renting a car in Europe and traveling free of the transit system to explore the off the beaten track places they may be put off by such a definitive and scary tale as the one above. I think it helpful and appropriate to try to mitigate that with some common sense tips and the benefit of the experience of many who have driven in Europe and understand it well.

Then folks can truly have good information to make a decision for themselves. But I still ENCOURAGE people to do it as it allows you to see so much more and deepens your experience.

How about don't drive in Italy without researching in advance the potential caveats.
Too many of us tourists arrive in a country and expect things to be just like back home.

Just as I would not have any tolerance for a foreign tourist coming to the USA and not being aware / breaking our traffic laws or expecting things to be the same for them back home ; Italy shouldn't either.

All of the things the OP mentions ; which I give credit are valid concerns and risks ; were things that could have all been avoided with some advance research before the trip and really exactly what this forum is for.
To educate not to scare people from doing something so sorry OP you completely missed the point of the forum.

I have driven a rental car multiple times and many KM in Italy and find it no problem at all.

Well since this was Bill Vander Werff's first and only post here - like in the MTA song he never returned - I think he must be a drive by poster.

Tough to have a dialogue in only one direction....

A drive by poster who drove by Italy and was not pleased.

Maserati
Alfa Romeo
Lambroghini
Mottoguzzi
Ferrari
Lancia

Anyone getting my drift?

Oh, forgot Vespa.
A truly genius invention.

Ducati

APE

Fiat

???

It’s time for my amazing rebuttal! Actually I have not responded sooner because I was still in Italy and enjoying my final day there, not checking this website. And this was the first time I think I have ever posted anything to a forum. Yes, perhaps a better title to the post would have been, “Don’t drive in Italy...unless you are driving in the countryside, off the beaten path, and so on”. Yes, I agree, if visiting the countryside and going off the beaten path, renting a car is no doubt the way to go. But if visiting the big and medium size cities and even some of the smaller towns, train or bus is so much easier. Also, and this shouldn’t be news to anyone, but it’s easy to read things into things like texts & emails & things posted on forums, based on our own assumptions. So please understand that I am not being critical of people who choose to rent cars or drive cars or whatever. Yes, driving in lots of American cities can also be unpleasant too but I wasn’t talking about the US. I have lived in several countries and driven in several W. European countries and I just found driving in Italy to be more stressful than in the other countries, (although I thought Ireland wasn’t a drive in the park either).

Personally I think it’s OK to talk about some of the negative experiences we have too because perhaps someone else can learn from them. Some things are fun & interesting cultural experiences, and other things are crap - and often the local people think so too. For example, I spent a few weeks in Peru several years ago and really began to loathe riding in the combis, the main way of getting around, at least in Lima - often standing up hunched over in a minivan cheek by jowl with other passengers. And the Peruvians I talked to about it said they despised them also.

And now I am going to change my mind about never driving in Italy again and say that maybe I will do it again one day, but if I do:
- as Rick Steves et al suggest, I won’t drive into the cities at all - I still think trying to monitor the ZTL signs in the midst of everything else is too complicated
- I’m only going to rent if I intend on driving through the countryside etc., not visiting cities
- I’m going to do the prepay gas option so I don’t have the situation I ran into this time - effectively it cost me almost $200 to fill out 3/4 of a tank & you know, the wound is still fresh!

Finally I agree that Americans shouldn’t go overseas and get upset and loudly demand that everything be the same as it is back home, but like I said, some things ARE crap & it’s OK to recognize them as such.

Oh and I don’t blame Italian cities for having the ZTLs either. And to be clear, please understand that I’m not saying driving in Italy is crap, most of it was fine actually, but SOME experiences traveling are. If that makes any sense. Maybe not - been up for what must be about 24 hours now and stuck in LaGuardia on my way home delayed because of thunderstorms - that’s a whole other post!

Bill is right of course about recognizing bad stuff and mentioning it. And of course one mans floor is another mans ceiling.

For my part I am a driver with a capital D. My first car was a Sunbeam Tiger and I had 4 cars before i was out of High school. None ever wrecked, just traded. This included an Austin Healy 3000.

So I love to drive and try to drive whenever I can. But I do recognize not everyone loves it as much as I do. And does not feel comfy driving in other countries. That said it is an experience that generally provides some of the best stories to re-tell for years.

I think leveling terms like “drive by poster” is a bit unfair. It’s the quality of the post that counts not how many you have. In fact when I see some folks with posts numbering in the tens of thousands I wonder how they ever have the time to travel to find things to write about....

I think the forum benefits from both kinds of posters. And I enjoy reading them.

Yes, I agree, if visiting the countryside and going off the beaten path, renting a car is no doubt the way to go. But if visiting the big and medium size cities and even some of the smaller towns, train or bus is so much easier.

If I'm travelling somewhere in Europe for a long weekend it's invariably to a large city and for that reason public transport will suit my needs. If I'm travelling for longer then it usually means I'm out of the city and therefore a car is required/beneficial.

I have no issues with driving on the right. My first experience was getting off a transatlantic flight in Philadelphia and driving straight into rush hour traffic. I've since driven extensively in the US and I find that the American attitude to lane discipline to be both frustrating and dangerous. I would never want to drive in Rome, Naples or many of the Eastern European capitals simply because there is such a laissez fair attitude towards rules. I find the more northerly in Europe you go the more polite and civilised the driving becomes. Compare the driving in the Ile De France region to that along the southern coast of Nice, Cannes etc.

I've been driving here for almost 20 years now so I've pretty much adapted but there are some things that I agree with Bill on, particularly driving in downtown areas. I live inside the ZTL zone here so I don't have a problem with those although the ones here in Vicenza are pretty well marked, both in huge white letters on the road and the red and white signs. As far as gas prices, thank God we get gas coupons on base because gas on the economy is expensive as hell.

Driving to and from our apartment in downtown, however, is a constant nightmare. Vicenza is not that big, maybe 120,000 people tops but trying to negotiate downtown can be terrifying because scooters, bikes and pedestrians seldom look where they're going and are prone to just jumping out into traffic. Within a few days of moving into our place downtown last year I told my wife that I've already accepted that I'll be in at least a few accidents while we're here (thankfully I have not, knock wood). Not only that but many of these cities' roads (Vicenza included) were made long before cars so they are narrow and with the Italians' penchant for ignoring traffic laws and parking wherever they want, the two lane road becomes barely big enough for one car and then you get stuck behind all the bike riders and can't pass them...but I digress.

I've driven in both downtown Naples and downtown Rome and swore I would NEVER do it again. Scary as hell.

I think leveling terms like “drive by poster” is a bit unfair.

I think the moniker is spot on. One subject, two posts. He joins the other first time posters who come here to gripe about how unfair Italian rules are and/or how it is a scam because they didn't do their homework and suffered because of their ignorance.

It’s the quality of the post that counts not how many you have.

I agree. The original post, from its title to the way the information was shared, misses the mark.

If you take the time to understand the Italian traffic rules, if you stay out of the deeply congested places there is absolutely no reason to avoid driving there.
We use public transportation for most of our travels but when we stay at an agro tourismo in the countryside we rent a car. We like to rent a very small car....the last one we had was a Citroen C3..not what we wanted but more than adequate for driving around in the country.
Hopefully no one heeds this advice not to drive.....do it if you want to...just be careful, advised and don't be surprised if you get a gift in the mail a few months later..and if you get a present in the mail, deal with it.

Unless staying in a large city, we always rent a car to visit the small towns and places where there is no train or bus service. Headed to Sicily later this year and will be renting there too. Have read the traffic rules and have checked out the ZTLs in the towns we’ll be visiting. I get more stressed by the narrow ancient streets than from ZTLs or autostrada speed limits and cameras.

Sounds like the OP doesn't live in a large city and doesn't drive in them. As far as traffic in cities goes, he is describing my home town. Add in thousands of unlicensed immigrants driving vehicles that shouldn't even be allowed on the road and you have it.

Last I was in Europe, petrol was nearly 4 times what is was back home. It costs what it costs. You should factor this in when deciding to rent a car vs taking public transit.

I saw plenty of speed limit signs on the highways in Italy. The round signs with a number in them. Not like the ones back home that actually say "Speed Limit" on them.

The charge for letting your car rental company fill your vehicle is not isolated to Italy or Europe. It happens here in the US too. Hertz charges $9.99 a gallon to fill your car if you don't purchase gas at time your rental starts if you bring it back unfilled.

Why does a post like this never die? Please read the OP's subsequent posts. He's a nice guy with reasonable opinions. Every point that needs to be made has been made. Basta e punto.

It’s “punto e basta”.