Dining in Italy question

You are paying = you can order what you like!
We usually have an antipasto (ham, salami etc, something veggie, sometimes even sharing one, followed by a mains each. This might be a pasta dish (primi), or meat /fish (secondi). We may or may not have dessert, or might share.
Have what you fancy, and don't fret about it.

The menus are loaded with courses but that doesn't mean you have to eat your way through to the end. I keep telling myself that but it's hard to resist! None of the courses are huge. It's about the flavor not the volume. And the dishes don't come quickly. It is entirely ok to skip the second course (meat or fish) and have contorni (e.g. vegetables, potatoes) instead. And you two can share an appetizer. Desserts are fine but gelato, when you're out walking leisurely back to your hotel, is even better. And it's easy to walk around and check out the portion sizes since so many places have outdoor seating. That's also a good way to select a dinner or lunch place for tomorrow!

Thank you, Lin C and Robert! Like I said, I was reading an article online, and someone said you are expected to order from every course. I thought that was odd and didn't make sense. Thank you for clarifying!

Here is an article that explains the different types of eateries:
https://www.travelandleisure.com/types-of-restaurants-in-italy-8623625

Nobody is checking off a list to make sure that diners order from every conceivable course, nor is that expected. I wonder who wrote that article - a restaurant owner who wanted to sell more courses?!?

Even Italians don’t necessarily order course after course. The “secondi” (second, or “main”) courses are often skipped. Some people will start with a starter (“antipasto”), some won’t. Soup ( “zuppa”) is an option, more if it’s a fall or winter trip for me, but the biggie for most people, and sometimes the only course, is pasta. With so many shapes and sizes, and different sauces and preparations, the variety is endless, and a pasta (first, or “primi ) course can be filling and adequate. If you follow with a main ( “secondi” ) and want a side of vegetables, say steamed broccoli, you need to order that separately , and it comes on its own plate. At the end, there’s a “dolce,*” or sweet, for dessert. But if you want to get gelato on the way home, rather than dessert in the restaurant, nobody’s going to stop you. Then there’s the whole drink thing, with a potential different alcoholic (or non) serving paired with every course, but none of that is obligatory.

If you go for just pizza, then that’s your course, but there are usually options for other courses to add, if wanted.

Unless you specifically want bottled designer water, either still or sparkling (frizzante), try asking for a carafe of tap water (acqua del rubinetto).

In Bologna three years ago, and also in Riomaggiore, we were hungry and also wanted to try lots of different things from the menu. Multiple waitresses thought we were ordering too much, although we finished every delicious bite. Doggy bags aren’t really a thing in italy, so get however much you’re going to eat, but don’t order more than you want/need.

I agree with others, you can do as you please, there are some conventions though, expectations if you will, but you are not held to them.

My wife and I usually get an antipasti, then usually each order either a primi, if in the mood for pasta, or a secondi if meat or fish is wanted. We always look at the Contorni, quite often a vegetable side is nice.

As for conventions:
Everybody gets water, it is a few euro, but if you look around every table has a bottle, still or sparkling, sorry, I would never try to order tap water.
Obviously you will be asked about wine, every place will have excellent house wine, available by the glass or measures (250 ml, 500 ml, or liter), bottles are usually reasonably priced. It is fine to not have wine.
While you need not order every course, you will raise eyebrows if all you order is a plate of pasta to share, more so in a higher end restaurant. Sharing off each others plates though is fine. Even pizzas are more an individual meal, rather than a big platter to share. If the two of you mix between courses, in a fancier place you may need to let them know they can bring the Primi and Secondi together, or more likely, they will ask.
At the end of the meal, it is almost expected that you will have something. Dessert of course, but if not that, then coffee or a digestif. Again, you can decline, but you may have to reassure the waiter that you really do not want anything.

As for types of restaurants, to be honest, types have blurred a lot as to what they are, I really pay no attention. If the menu looks good, it is simply a place to eat. Many places I think choose a name, like Osteria, simply to create a mood or try to appear homey, but have the same menu items and costs as a trattoria, or a ristorante. Even an Enoteca can have a full blown menu, or just simple snacks these days.

Don't worry about the designations for restaurants, as they no longer apply. There are some very fancy Michelin-starred restaurants that call themselves "Osterie."

Similarly, as others have noted, order whatever you want. When I travel with my partner, we often choose two antipasti, and then split a pasta and split a second course. But you can do anything you like within reason.
If you each want only one course, maybe take a pasta (primi) or main course (secondi), not just two antipasti. But whatever you order, if you do it with a smile, you'll be ok..... I always engage the waiter, if possible, maybe saying something like "I have no appetite tonight so we just want one small bite...." Unless you are in a pure tourist restaurant, you should be fine and you should not be in those pure tourist places anyway..

Keep in mind that most, if not all, restaurants will allow you to order a half portion of pasta and, often, a half portion of other courses. I could never eat en entire pasta course and have room left for anything else. Always ask about this... And if you re ordering seafood or fish, it should be sold by weight. So just ask: "How many shrimp would be in 200 grams??). or: "I'd like six razor clams..." (I can never pass up a few grilled prawns if I'm near the coast!!)

I think the ordering of fish and seafood is the main issue that raises problems in Italy for foreign diners....so make sure you understand all of this. And always go to the display of seafood and ask questions if you re not sure...
You can say: "I want the smallest orata that you have tonight..how many grams would that weigh, about??"

Some restaurants also price meat, especially beef steaks, by weight.

More and more restaurants in the mid-upper price ranges now offer tasting menus. These need to be ordered by both parties at the table. I do not like them, as they are often just too many courses and too long a meal... But even if the place is listed as tasting menu only, it pays to ask if you can order a la carte.

Yes, it's usual to order bottled water and the first question the waiter will ask you, often, is: Sparkling or still. If you do not want water, you do not have to order it. You could ask for tap water but that's a little crude in my opinion....
Soft drinks are fine and, as noted, the house wine usually tastes just fine if you are not a wine fanatic. (I'm not!)

I've been to Italy twice and have never plowed my way through multiple courses. :-) Just order what you want and can eat.

Enjoy your trip, kmkwoo!! Italy has the best food of any country I've been to. My opinion, of course, but I consider myself something of a foodie, and I LOVE the food in Italy!

One more thing: There is NO SHAME in asking to take home your leftovers. Often the waiter will ask you if you would like to do this. They'll either wrap up the uneaten food, or give you a container so you an do this yourself.

And, you already know this, but you absolutely DO NOT HAVE TO TIP in any restaurant in italy.

Myself, I do not normally tip, but I would leave UP TO 10% (never more than that) in a very fine, upscale restaurant (where you will not necessarily find the best food). And even then, that is not usual for me.

Apologies for this long volume!! I travel for food and do a ton of research about where to eat when planning my trips. You do not have to go to that extreme, but a little reading and inquiring can mean the difference between a meal you will long remember and an out and out dud. (Admittedly, I cannot remember many of the latter, in Italy)

Let us know here you are going and maybe we can offer some ideas on where to eat.

I was out doing some errands and just returned to find a wealth of responses and information from everyone on this forum. Thank you so much!

I like the idea of sharing plates. We would never just order only one dish to share. This sounds great; we can mix and match, so to speak. I am always thirsty and drink a lot of water, so ordering a bottle of water is not an issue. And we are wine drinkers! Good to know the house wine is good and inexpensive. We've noticed that in France, too.

ekscrunchy, I am also on Fodors, (KarenWoo), and I have enjoyed your numerous, food-oriented trip reports!

I have tons of recommendations for Florence, Venice, Lucca, and Bologna (from people on this forum, Fodors, TA, Hungry Onion) so I think any more will confuse me.

But I could use a few recommendations for Milan. So far I have Trattoria Milanese dal 1933, but it gets mixed reviews. And I could use recommendations for Siena, Merano or other places in the Dolomites, Manarola (I do have Trattoria dal Billy, but that's it), and Varenna. I do have a dinner reservation at our hotel's restaurant in Varenna, Albergo Milano, but no other ideas. We don't need fancy, expensive restaurants.

Thank you!

Karen, I came back here to edit my post and add that the carafe of tap water is free, where bottled water comes with a charge, but you’ve gotten additional posts since mine, so I’ll just add this extra one. Restaurants usually are more than happy to bring us tap water, except for a few who say it’s not available, ostensibly since the local tap water isn’t “good.” Hmmm, what do they cook their pasta in, several bottles worth of Acqua Panna or San Pellegrino?

If you don’t ask, it won’t come automatically. Crude? Not in my opinion, but then I use my hands to pick up grisini. Bottled wine, yes. Or house wine in a carafe, OK. Paying more for bottled water? Not if I can get tap water in a carafe.

Buon appetito!

We found that restaurants in several cities absolutely refused to supply tap water, while in other cities no problem. And it was hard to figure out a priori which response we were likely to get. We found that, if Restaurant A in a city refused, all the others usually would, too.

We assumed the position that, if the restaurant refused to supply tap water, we ordered Pellegrino (sparkling), as that at least added an element of fun and flavor. Pellegrino actually does have a flavor, and I typically have some with my dinner most nights at home. 750 mL usually costs about 3 euros, so no big whoop.

I agree with the others. Order what you want, and what you feel you can comfortably eat. I typically order Insalata or Contorni, along with Primi (usually pasta), a small bottle of Acqua Naturale and a glass of the Vino della casa. I may or may not order Dolce (dessert), depending on how hungry I am at the time, and I always have at least one coffee to finish.

There's no way I could finish the "full meal deal"!

Thank you to Cyn, jphbucks, and Ken! All of your responses are helpful, and I appreciate your taking the time to respond.

Does anyone have any restaurant recommendations for Milan, Merano, Varenna, and Manarola?
Thanks!

If you're in Manarola, you could take the local train up to Monterosso for dinner one night (it's only about a 10 minute trip). When you arrive there, stop at Cantina di Miky, which is along the main street in the "new town" close to the train station - https://www.cantinadimiky.it/ . It's a big favourite with many here. There's also the more upscale Miky, especially if you like seafood. As Monterosso is the largest of the five towns, it has more restaurants and other tourist amenities.

Unfortunately I'm not familiar with the restaurants in Manarola, but I'm sure one of the others will be able to provide some good suggestions.

Buon appetito!

Hello Karen. You will find many great places to eat in Siena. But here are a few. Osteria al Palchetto da Vittorio, Via del Porrione 25/27 (just off the Compo) is good and very traditional with a chalkboard menu. The owner, Vittorio will point to where you are to sit. Next door to Al Palchetto is Osteria le Logge. We have not eaten there, but it is always busy and very upscale with white tablecloths. One of our favorites is Osteria il Vinaio di Bobbe e Davide, Via Camollia, 138 (website has old address at 167) with traditional Tuscan dishes. Osteria Nonna Gina, Pian del Mantillini 2 (close to the Due Porte gate) is also very charming with a very traditional menu. It has very limited opening hours. Panini il Cento, Piazza del Campo, serves great panini and is wonderfully located right in the Campo. All of these places have a website so you may check the opening hours and menu.

Ken, thank you for your recommendation of Cantina di Miky. Do you think we need advance reservations?

Thank you, charylm, for your restaurant suggestions for Siena! I appreciate it.

I've never bothered with a reservation for Cantina di Miky, as it's quite informal. I've had to wait a few minutes for a table to become available but always got a seat on their outdoor patio. They have indoor seating also. However I should mention that the area has become much more busy over the last few years and since they now have a section on their website to make reservations, that might be the safest option.

I would suggest a reservation if you go to the Miky restaurant.

To find the Cantina, go to the left when you exit the train station. Miky is to the right.

You didn’t ask, but I will also mention the restaurant etiquette of the staff is different than the US.

In the US, you have the usual interruptions to your meal with various staff stopping by your table to ask how you like the food, or the “I’ll leave your bill here on the table”. All of that is considered rude in Italy. Your meal is a social time for you to enjoy. Away from tourist locations, you won’t be interrupted or hurried. When you want to have the bill, motion that you’re writing, and they will then approach your table. It’s very refreshing to enjoy a meal in Italy! Have a great time! Oh, and ask what’s the local dish since every city/region has their own food.

I'd be interested to hear how the Italians in the forum see it. Without knowing any better, I would still always eat a multi-course meal at a Ristorante in Italy. Perhaps I'm stuck in the past, though.

One particular thing to know regarding restaurants in Italy: they often charge for "coperto" - which means cutlery. This is normal, so do not think you are ripped of. This charge is commonly shown on the menu.

"Coperto" actually means "cover," as in cover charge. But the point remains: it's a standard charge. Thanks, aljevandam, for the reminder, as this is something that consternates many visitors to Italy.

Basically you have to choose between "Antipasti" - starter, and "primi piatti" - first plate. The starter arrives usually fast, the first plate (noodles or rice) is usually fresh cooked and needs more time. As more starter you eat, less "primi" you will be able to eat. Share all the dishes with each other (usually they will bring you additional plates for this). After this, you can decide for a 2nd (fish or meat), if you want to continue, or you can go straight for a dessert, a coffee or a liqueur.

Thank you to everyone who has replied since my last post: Ken, Jean, Mignon, aljevandam, jphbucks, and Be_rome. And that's good to know that "coperto" means a cover charge. That is new to me - paying a cover charge for a restaurant. I am very excited for our trip. We leave this Friday, May 2. The last time we visited Italy was in the 1970's. So we are long overdue for an Italy trip! :-)

The Regional Government of Latium (where the Latinos come from originally), which is the region where Rome is, has banned the Cover charge (Coperto or sometimes "Pane e Coperto" or bread and cover) years ago, so you won't see it in Rome's restaurants. It is still standard practice in much of the country however, unless a restaurant has decided to do away out of their own volition. It will be stated in the menu however (all charges must be in the menu by law), and it generally ranges from 2€ to 3€ per person, although it can be a bit more in very upscale restaurants.

The origin of the practice goes back to the Middle Ages. In those days, workers and travelers, would sometime stop at local inns and restaurants to eat their own food brought from home (the equivalent of nowadays' brown bag we take to our office from home). The "coperto" or cover charge, was basically the charge for the use of the table and the silverware that the restaurant owner would provide to the guest (since the food was brought from home). In a way it was the equivalent of the corking fee restaurants charge you if you bring your own wine to a restaurant.

That practice obviously has no reason to exist anymore, since people don't eat their food brought from home and restaurants make money by charging you for the food you order, however it still persists since restaurants always look for some ways to get your money. But don't despair. It's an extra charge, but considering that Italian restaurants mark up their wine much less than restaurants in the US (on average they double the cost for a mid range wine), you will end up spending much less than at an Italian restaurant in America.

You don't need to order antipasto + primo (first course) + secondo (second or main course) + contorno (side dish) + dolce (dessert).

If I did that, I would explode, in spite of my large capacity stomach. Generally I order a antipasto + primo + secondo + contorno, but I share with my wife a couple of those if not all of them. Sharing is done in Italy too. If you want you can order just a first course.

As noted above, waiting staff will not come to your table unless you specifically request (by raising your hand or calling their attention), and for sure they will not bring you the check unless you clearly ask for one (often more than once). Bringing a check without being ask would start a fight with Italian patrons. Actually you will notice that Italians don't even ask for the check to the table, but they simply get up and pay the bill at the cash register, on their way out of the restaurant. I absolutely never ask to bring the check to the table, waiters are annoyed by that, since Italian restaurants are nearly always understaffed and waiters are too busy serving tables and have no time to bring the check (and they have no incentive to do you that favor considering that Italians, including me, leave ZERO tip).

Regarding the difference between Osteria, Trattoria and Ristorante below is a good description, although sometimes the difference is blurred nowadays. Generally the Trattoria was a family run un-fancy place, but sometimes they can be pretty pricey too.
https://curiousappetitetravel.com/travel-tips/difference-osteria-ristorante-trattoria-italy

”Actually you will notice that Italians don't even ask for the check to the table, but they simply get up and pay the bill at the cash register, on their way out of the restaurant.”

A little humor - eating solo I try to observe how restaurants handle things, Last year at Caserta, I noticed that the diners would go to the cash register, talk for awhile and leave. I didn’t notice a bill in their hands. So when I finished, I walked up to the cash register and proceeded to tell them what I ate in elementary Italian. Well, they only needed my table #! I could tell they were entertained at my attempt - LOL! The food was so good that I ate there twice. The second time - just the table #. ; )

This is all great information - thanks to all! My husband and I leave for Rome on Saturday, so this is really helpful. He's a Type 1 diabetic so really has to watch the carbs. Pasta can be difficult, so good to know it's not a necessary element of the meal.

Karen, Have a great time!

I am sure the restaurants would love for you to order something from every section, but we didn't have any problems sharing plates in various cities in Italy 18 months ago. The waiters were very cordial and fine with our requests. We usually share a salad and a dessert, and depending on what we are craving, we usually get our own main. And we order wine. We didn't find the food portions huge, like in the US, so we easily finished. We always take a quick look around when being seated, to check on the portion sizes. You can take any leftovers to go but unless you have a refrigerator and a microwave, there is no way to enjoy them later.

We always order tap water and they bring out a carafe, and we have never been refused. We drink a lot of water so the multiple bottled waters would add up quickly. Enjoy!

Thank you to Roberto, Jean, and Sunny22. My husband and I usually share a starter and a dessert, too. So I am happy to hear that Italian restaurants don't mind when their customers share.

Sally77, I am happy that my thread is helpful to you. I always receive invaluable information from other threads. Have a great time in Rome!

If you tell them you are sharing a dish ahead of time, in many restaurants, if they aren't too busy, they will do the splitting for you and bring you two dishes with one half portion in each, so you don't need to split the dish yourself and make a mess.