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Como to Frankfurt.

Hello, I sure could use some help.
Here is my itinerary as it stands:
Arrive in Frankfurt from San Francisco on Sept. 17th.
Depart Frankfurt for Paris on Sept. 18th. via TGV
Depart Paris on Sept. 22nd for Barcelona via TVG
Depart Barcelona on Sept. 26th for Milan via Vueling Airlines
Depart Milan for Como via train. I have reservations in Menaggio from Sept.26 through the 29th.
We have to catch a flight home from Frankfurt on Oct. 2nd.
What would be a scenic way to return to Frankfurt? I could cut out one day in Menaggio and leave on the 28th.
Any suggestions?
Thank you, Tom

Posted by
321 posts

Is there a reason why you are flying into Frankfurt versus starting your trip in Barcelona? From there to Paris, then Milan and Como and fly out of Milan. Seems like you are doing alot of backtracking.

Posted by
51 posts

Yep, I agree. Long story. At this point I'm stuck with it, or as Hillary Clinton might say " At this point what difference does it make" Lol
I'm still going to have a great time in spite of the foul up.

Posted by
321 posts

In that case, I would investigate either train through Switzerland and southern germany or quick flight from milan to frankfurt and take day trips from frankfurt. Personally, I wouldn't shorten the Lake Como stay since you are mostly visiting cities. I also wouldn't want to do one day overnights from Milan to Frankfurt. Or you could always rent a car and drive, stopping where ever you like.
Claudette

Posted by
32171 posts

thomas,

You're covering a lot of territory in a short time, but as the arrangements appear to be set in stone, you'll have to make the best of it. A few thoughts and questions.....

Or you could always rent a car and drive, stopping where ever you like.

Renting a car to travel from Italy to Frankfurt would NOT be a good idea, as there's usually a very expensive charge for renting in one country and dropping in another. Also, with such a short trip, you don't have time to meander through the countryside in a rental car. There's also the issues of having to buy a Tax Vignette for Switzerland, if you travel that way (hefty fines if you don't).

I assume you already have tickets booked for TGV from Frankfurt to Paris and Paris to Barcelona? Have you also booked your flight with Vueling? Which terminal at MXP does you flight arrive at?

When you arrive back in Milan on 26 Sept., how are you planning to get to Menaggio? The route I'd probably use is train from Milano Centrale to Varenna, walk down the hill to Ferry dock and then travel by boat to Menaggio. The train from Milan to Varenna is a Regionale, so DON'T forget to validate your ticket prior to boarding the train on the day of travel, or you'll face hefty fines which will be collected on the spot!

For the trip from Menaggio to Bern, use the bahn.de website to research your rail travel options. The method I'd probably use is reverse the route to Milano Centrale and depart from there to Frankfurt. There's a departure at 11:25 that arrives at Frankfurt Hbf at 19:08 (time 7H:43M, 1 change at Basel). If you decide to use that route, it would be a good idea to pre-purchase tickets, as the first leg has compulsory reservations. The website shows a Savings Fare of €99 at the moment. With compulsory reservations, you can ONLY use the one train that you've reserved so don't miss the train!

If you'd like to arrive in Frankfurt earlier, there's a similar departure at 07:25, arriving 15:08 and current Savings Fare indicated at €79. If you'd prefer to use that one, it would be a good idea to leave Menaggio one day early and stay one night in Milan.

I don't know if the train from Milan to Frankfurt will be "scenic" but since it's going to be a full travel day, I'd be more concerned with the travel time. As the route goes through Switzerland and then western Germany, it should be reasonably scenic.

Posted by
16893 posts

DB schedules reflect Bus #631 from Menaggio to Lugano, but there is also public bus #C12 that departs several times per day on the same route, from Piazza Roma; see p. 308 of Rick's Italy and/or confirm at a local tourist office.

Posted by
51 posts

Thanks again for the new information.
Re: the Vueling flight. I have already booked the flight. We arrive at terminal #1
My plan is to take the train from Milan to Como. Is the train station near the airport?
Tom

Posted by
32171 posts

thomas,

Thanks for the additional information. As your flight is arriving at Terminal 1, transportation will be easy.

There's a train station right at Terminal 1, so you'll be able to buy your tickets for the entire journey right there. The trip will be in at least two segments, the first of which will probably be the Malpensa Express to Milano Centrale. You can research the train options on the Trenitalia website. DON'T forget to validate your tickets prior to boarding the train or you'll risk a hefty fine!

As you may be aware, there are several stations in Como. Could you elaborate on exactly where you're going?

Posted by
51 posts

I'd be more than happy to elaborate. You have been a life saver :-)
I booked 4 nights, Sept. 26th. through the 29th. in Menaggio at the Albergo II Vapore. I hope it's a nice place.
Our flight arrives in Milan on Sept. 26th @ 12:05 pm. Would it be reasonable to think that we can arrive at our hotel in Menaggio at a decent time on the 26th?
Conversely, When we leave Menaggio on Sept. 30th for our return to Milan and then on to Frankfurt, would it be reasonable to expect we could accomplish this early enough in the day to arrive in Frankfurt on the night of the 30th at a decent time or would spending the night in Milan and departing for Frankfurt in the morning on Oct. 1st. be the way to go?
Thank you again for all of your help.
Sincerely, Tom

Posted by
321 posts

Ken,
Thanks for the info on car rentals. I have always used the trains when I have been in Europe. I guess I shouldn't have made such a recommendation without the facts.
C

Posted by
51 posts

C, It's ok, nobody will hold it against you. Certainly not me.
I appreciate everyone's help.
Tom

Posted by
32171 posts

thomas,

Thanks for the additional information. Could you also indicate why you're travelling to Como? The route I suggested earlier would be an easy way to reach Menaggio, and that doesn't involve going through Como. I'll try to offer some further suggestions once the Como question is clarified.

Regardless of which route you use to reach Menaggio, you'll probably arrive about supper time.

Posted by
51 posts

Ken, I'm sorry, I overlooked your suggestion of going to Varenna. I thought the only way to get to the area was going to Como.
Planning this trip is more than I'm used to. I really appreciate all of your help.
I look forward to hearing from you again.
Tom

Posted by
32171 posts

thomas,

As mentioned in my earlier post, I'd use the Varenna route but I'll defer to the others for further opinion on that. This is the route that I'd follow....

  • When you arrive at Malpensa T1, go to the airport rail station and buy tickets for the Malpensa Express and for Varenna-Esino. You could also buy your return tickets to Milano Centrale and onward, depending on which route you're going to use to Frankfurt. NOTE that the trains you'll be using from the airport and to Varenna will be Regionale, so DON'T forget to validate tickets prior to boarding on the day of travel, or you'll risk hefty fines!
  • The most likely train you'll be able to connect with is a 13:19 departure from the airport to Milano Centrale, arriving at 14:05. The train to Varenna departs at 14:20, arriving 15:23. BE PREPARED to disembark promptly, as the train only stops for about a minute!
  • When you exit the station in Varenna, go to the left and down the stairway. When you reach the road, turn right and walk downhill to the small bridge, which will be on your left. Cross the bridge and immediately turn right, heading down towards the lake and a large yellow building (Hotel Olivedo).
  • There's a small ticket booth in front of the hotel where you can buy your Ferry tickets. The most likely connection is a boat departing at 15:45. The boat trip to Menaggio is about 15 minutes, so you'll arrive at 16:00. You'll have time to check-in, freshen up and do a brief walkabout before dinner.
  • When you disembark from the boat in Menaggio, I believe your hotel will be to the right. I'm not clear on the exact location of your hotel, so you might ask them for directions from the Ferry dock.

As mentioned in my earlier post, travelling from Menaggio to Frankfurt is certainly possible in one day. It would be a good idea to buy tickets for the Milan - Frankfurt rail trip in advance, since the first leg of that route has compulsory reservations. I'd also buy the ticket for the Varenna to Milan return trip, since the station in Varenna is not staffed. You could also buy your return tickets at the small Tivano Tours office, which is just below the station in Varenna (you'll walk past it). They're very helpful.

This is probably what I'd do....

  • There appears to be a Ferry departure from Menaggio at 07:55, and that's the one to use.
  • From the Ferry dock in Varenna, you'll have to move briskly up the hill to the station to connect with the 08:37 train,, arriving Milan at 09:40.
  • If you use the 11:25 train from Milan to Frankfurt via Basel, you'll have a short wait in Milan. Watch your luggage carefully at Milano Centrale, as there will be scammers about! Note that the WC's in the station are pay-per-use. There are lots of restaurants so you can have an early lunch.
  • With that train, you'll arrive in Frankfurt at 19:08. Be sure to tell your hotel that you'll be a "late arrival".

While that will be a long travel day, you'll be able to rest on the train and enjoy the scenery. If you'd like to split the trip into two days, you could leave Menaggio one day early and stay one night in either Milan or Basel.

Use the bahn.de or Trenitalia websites for all the times and other details on your rail journeys.

Hope this helps.

Posted by
51 posts

Wow, thanks so much. Who needs a travel agent?
You have been So Much Help. I can't thank you enough.
I think we will spend the night in Basel, then we can say we visited 5 countries. ;-)
Thanks again, Happy Travels!
Tom

Posted by
32171 posts

thomas,

You're very welcome!

One other minor detail to mention. The Malpensa Express has two routes, one going to Milano Centrale and one going to Milano Cadorna. Be sure to board the correct train!

Posted by
51 posts

Got it Ken, thanks again.
I'm guessing that train tickets I have pre booked and printed at home don't have to be validated? Just the regional ones?
I think I read that you just get on the train and show the ticket and credit card on which it was purchased to the conductor.
Tom

Posted by
32171 posts

thomas,

Are the train tickets you printed at home for use in Italy? Which trains are they for? Normally with the trains which have compulsory reservations, you only need provide the PNR code to the Conductor, but I'd suggest having the document you printed at home to show them. I'm not sure that showing the credit card is necessary. Hopefully one of the others can confirm that.

Yes, Regionale tickets purchased in Italy MUST be validated prior to use on the day of travel. DO NOT validate them the day prior to travel just because you happen to be in a station. They have a "shelf life" of about six hours once validated (depends on the length of the route), so will have expired by the time you use them.

If the tickets are for trains in Italy with compulsory reservations, they can ONLY be used on the one train specified on the ticket. If you board the wrong train by mistake, you'll be subject to hefty fines which will be collected on the spot!