Cinqueterre Train Troubles

Where did you get on and where did you want to get off?
Aside from the train ticket snafu did you like Cinque Terre?

No offense, but that conductor probably see's lots of people try to do the express, rather than the milk run trains. It may be confusing for some, but it is usually pretty straight forward what train is what, knowing departure times, train numbers, and looking at scheduled trains.

It's not the conductor's fault or the region's fault that you got on the wrong train and were fined.
The conductor was simply doing his job. Did you expect special treatment?

Be careful anywhere you travel that you are following the rules- for example if you get on a vaporetto in Venice and don't validate you will get fined for that as well. Happens all the time.

If you board a fast train (Intercity or Freccia) using a cheaper (slower) Regionale commuter train ticket you will need to be happy to spend your tourist dollars in equally stiff fines also in all other regions.

It works the same way on American trains. With a NYC subway ticket you cannot travel on the Amtrak Acela fast train from NYC to DC.

Our intention was to go a brief “one stop”
ride from Monterrosso to Vernazza.
We got on the train at the scheduled time at the correct platform but did not take notice that the train we boarded as listed as an express rather than regular.
This took us to La Spezia and we had to purchase tickets again to get us back to Vernazza.
Aside from the unexpected massive cash outlay and time wasted on backtracking our trip was reasonable. We had a delicious lunch in Monterrosso. Inclement weather limited our ability to hike as we had planned.
The travel professionals we had encountered elsewhere in the country were courteous and hospitable, this amplified the hostility we encountered in today’s journey.

I think there's some confusion here.
The Cinque Terre Express IS the train system that serves the region from La Spezia to Levanto and the 5 villages in between. While not a source I'd recommend for buying tickets for these trains, this provides a quick glance at what they are:

https://www.thetrainline.com/en/train-companies/trenitalia/cinque-terre-express

Tickets are usually 4 euro a pop, and there are also passes available. What you likely did was what Roberto said: boarded one of the fast (and more expensive, and sometimes requiring reserved seating) Intercity or Freccia trains that make stops at certain of the villages using an incorrect CT Express ticket. That not being aware of the difference can end up in expensive fines is a good heads up for others bound for the 5 Lands.

Yep, the authorities in the CT frequently have to put up with all sorts of tourists with wrong tickets, unvalidated tickets or no tickets at all claiming ignorance, and frequently ruining THEIR day with fits of temper so they have little patience with it. In my city, there's a fine for as much as $300 for entering an express lane with just one person in the car, and no amount of claiming ignorance will get you out of it!

Glad that you enjoyed Monterosso, and please don't write the entire region off because of one bad experience, eh? :O)

But thank you for posting this warning to others who will read it.

Well, in spite of those who claim it is very easy to avoid making this mistake, I can sympathize. My husband and I made this mistake in Germany. When the conductor told us, we offered to pay for the correct tickets, and he kindly waved off our payment. It WAS a genuine mistake, but it was our mistake, and had we been required to pay more or pay a fine, we would have happily done so.

I'm sorry your experience was different, but I don't understand dissing an entire region because of the grumpiness of one person.

It never feels good to have to pay extra or to feel like someone was unkind to you.

You shared your experience here online to try to help others from making the same mistake and I thank you for that. I now know one more thing to look out for while traveling as this sort of error can happen to anyone.

I did want to encourage you to tone down the rhetoric about "never visit this region again" and reconsider this decision once you are a bit removed from the situation itself. Mistakes happen. You made one and it sounds like the conductor made one in his tone that he used that made you feel he was hostile to you. If one expects grace for mistakes you also have to be willing to give it to others when they make mistakes as well.

He was doing his job in collecting the fines, although it sounds as if he could have managed the conversation far better.

Unfortunately, we all make these types of travel mistakes from time to time. I remember buying a ticket on the Heathrow Express only the direction was going to London instead of to the Airport. I ended up having to buy a last minute full price ticket for the correct direction and learned a lesson about double checking my purchases.

Don't let this one mistake, on both your parts, keep you from enjoying your trip and all there is to enjoy.

Ouch. I made a train mistake and that was after living two years in France and sort of speaking the language. I still remember it from 40 years ago. It's too bad people were rough on you here because you are providing a public service that fines are stiff even when it's an obvious mistake.

The train conductors in the Cinque Terre aren't always up and up. A guide a know (one who works for RS), told me she was rushing to catch a train between CT towns and tried to get everyone to validate their ticket. The conductor saw what they were doing and realized they would miss the train. So he told her not to worry about it and just get the group on the train. She did as he said.

As soon as the doors closed, the conductor fined every one in the group for not having a validated ticket.

In a small station with only one platform per direction, the mistake is very easy to make. Picture this: the express train is a few minutes late and shows up roughly at the time of the local train you were supposed to take, and you only have 30 seconds to check if it is indeed the right train... Of course they look different, but how would you know if you don't live there.

So, thank you for sharing this warning, and sorry about the fine!

I too think some of the comments have been unnecessarily harsh.

I think the OP's point was the enforcement officer could have done his job with civility.

balso makes a good point, ideally every train would be clearly marked, on time and on the expected track. then again, this is Italy.

but how would you know if you don't live there.

You look up and read the train type and the train code on the board hanging over your head. https://images.app.goo.gl/6P35ZZD29ddYdhD98

I noticed that many tourists do not actually "get" how Trains work in small stations with few tracks (and the 24 hours clock is an additional problem). I remember a woman in a tiny station in the countryside, she had boarded a local train departing from platform 3 at 14:27 , whereas she was supposed to take the local train departing at 14:33 from the same platform. It took the conductor five minutes to explain her that six minutes make a big difference in a 3 tracks station.

Oh my..as frustrating as this is..and expensive.
I can tell you I have done this 3 times! One on your same route but coming from Framura..one time Venice to Padua..
A 3euro ticket ended up being 35!.. and once out of Florence! I could not believe it but only once did I encounter hostility..the other 2 experiences were basic well..just pay it! It happens..it is a lesson..and put it in your travel memory bank! I do recall being taken aback at the rudeness during one experience and had to regroup my thoughts...so I definitely can appreciate your experience!

I've found that most of the time train crew reflect the attitudes of the passengers they are dealing with. Not perhaps in this case, I am sure that the OP accepted the fines gracefully and apologetically, but sometimes if somebody is very rude to them they tend to be in a mood when encountering the next passengers. That's human nature.

The ticket collector was exceedingly rude and hostile. We will never make the mistake of visiting this region again. Happy to spend our tourist dollars elsewhere

The thread was helpful up to here. I think the reaction by some of the posters were to the editorializing. It was unhelpful and unnecessary.

We avoid these situations by preparing before we leave and if there is any doubt, we ask. Politeness goes both ways and I can gather from this post what your attitude might have been. Whenever we have been in a confusing situation and asked politely, we have been helped.

About 6 years ago, we flew into Amsterdam, and then boarded a train to the town where a friend was going to meet us. We were jetlagged out of our minds, and barely coherent. Somehow we ended up getting on the 1st class car, not the 2nd class one we had tickets for. Eventually a conductor came by and let us know that we were on the wrong car, but she was very kind and let us stay put. She even sat with us for a little bit and chatted about our trip. The fact that there was only 1 other person in the car with us was probably a contributing factor...

But here's the thing - we were wrong, and we would have paid the fine or the fare difference if she had insisted. We screwed up. Our lack of familiarity (and zombie-like state) didn't change that fact. We would have taken responsibility for our actions, and not blamed someone else for our screw-up. When I rented an apartment in Paris 15 years ago, I screwed up the dates, and said that I was arriving a day early. I still paid for that extra day. The owner couldn't rent it out that day, and it was my mistake. It sucked, but I couldn't blame him for insisting.

The fact that the conductor was a dick doesn't change the fact that you made a mistake. It sucks that he wasn't more polite, but he wasn't wrong. He probably spends a lot of time dealing with tourists who make mistakes, and then blame him, complete with temper tantrums and screaming. Having worked customer service, I can tell you that after ten or twenty people in a day screaming and swearing at me, I stopped being willing to offer exceptions. Also, bear in mind that something similar could happen anywhere in Europe, and you would probably be fined. It's the same way that cops in the US are more likely to pull over the person with out of state plates. The non-native is less likely to go to court or contest the fine. They're more likely to just pay it.

The terse answers you got from a lot of posters aren't in response to the actual experience you related. It's good to know that they're enforcing things strictly. I'm not surprised, given that revenues are probably down with COVID. They're in response to your last line, which has a strong "they're mean, and I'm going to take my toys home and not play with them anymore" vibe. Generalizing to an entire region (which you later said you enjoyed) based on one guy being a dick while doing his job makes about as much sense as saying you'll never visit Seattle again because the dude at the Space Needle closed the ticket window on time and wouldn't sell you a ticket 1 minute after that. I'm sorry if that ruffles your feathers, but you should probably take some time to calm down and reflect on the experience and your reaction to it.

In 2008, we boarded a train to Orvieto at Rome Termini - my first experience traveling by train in Europe. I wondered why people were going up to the little yellow box on the platform and asked if it was something we should do, but deferred to my more experienced Italy travelers when they said no. Well, of course we found out what the little yellow box was for when the conductor collected our tickets. We were lucky — an eye-roll and heavy sigh, but no fine. We appreciated his courtesy and became obsessive ticket validators.

The train conductors in the Cinque Terre aren't always up and up. A guide a know (one who works for RS), told me she was rushing to catch a train between CT towns and tried to get everyone to validate their ticket. The conductor saw what they were doing and realized they would miss the train. So he told her not to worry about it and just get the group on the train. She did as he said.

As soon as the doors closed, the conductor fined every one in the group for not having a validated ticket.

I wonder if they work on commission?

No they don't work on commission and no conductor would behave the way Frank described: no one would run the risk of loosing a long term unionised job just to be mean and fine some tourists. Other than Such a story would make the local front pages, what would the point be? Get fired? If it actually happened, They probably had the wrong ticket and it wasn't a problem of time-stamping.

Sharing my own experience trying to lead a tour group from Monterosso to Vernazza, I split my group into three groups to get on the train at different entry doors because there was a rather dense crowd -- mostly travelers -- that covered most of the platform (at least 200 people if not more). The train was several minutes late. A train pulled up on the correct track, it was the right looking train, and the crowd immediately pressed up against it. I was first though the door of the train and checked the list of stops. Sure enough, the next stop was La Spezia. I figured out later that the train we were waiting for got stuck behind this one.

I leaned out the doorway and projected at the top of my lungs so that my group(s) could hear me over the crowd noise, "Hey (group), don't get on this train! This goes to La Spezia, not Vernazza!" In rather memorable fashion, the entire crowd along the length of the platform backed away from the train in one immediate, uniform motion.

It would've been all too easy for people to get on the wrong train that day, and I'd forgive someone if they got on the train and missed where it indicates the next stop -- especially with the crowds -- as it isn't particularly prominent (at least, it wasn't on that train). It was certainly a lesson for me -- as a guide and a traveler -- to always double check the train's destinations when getting on board.

Apologies to msabadish for the bad experience with the ticket collector, but here's hoping you don't write off the region due to one bad human (or confusing trains). Even with the influx of cruise travelers arriving via train during the day (I try to avoid Vernazza during the daytime now), the Cinque Terre is a pretty great place to stay.

Goodness, I don't know as most folks meant to be unnecessarily harsh versus just try to explain how things work. Sometimes I think our Italian members get a little tired of their country being portrayed as unfriendly, unfair, or overrun with pickpockets and scammers from first-time posters whose single negative experience is all a new reader may pre-judge a city or region by?

Msabadish, I did (and do) have sympathy for you...until the last two or three lines of your post. It's like slamming an entire US state or county because of one individual's behavior. Sure wouldn't want to see people judge us that way.

To the OP I feel for your pain. I can remember being 10-12 years ago, one of our first trips to Italy was to CT and we hiked all day and wanted to take the train back to our starting village, we studied that train board, re-read whatever guide book we had with us about how to understand the trains, the trains came and went while we tried to figure it out, we probably waited and missed the next 3 trains before we felt reasonably sure of our decision to finally board what we hoped was the right train when it came, I remember the relief after asking a local on the train if this was the right train we wanted and getting a positive answer. To this day after a dozen trips to Italy I still find the Italian railway system challenging.

ms,

Sorry to hear about your experience with the Cinque Terre trains. Especially in Italy, it's especially important to know the rules about train tickets, but even with good knowledge and experience, it's still possible to make mistakes. I can sympathize with your situation as I've also been fined once and had to pay 50€ on the spot for my lack of attentiveness.

I've also encountered the situation described by the Webmaster in boarding a train from Monterosso to Vernazza. The situation at the time was very chaotic and there were an enormous number of people travelling, including several large cruise ship groups. It was a very hot and busy afternoon and none of the trains seemed to be running on time. A train arrived on the platform at the appointed time, but it didn't appear to be the usual Regionale that travels that route, so I took a chance and decided to wait. That proved to be a good decision as the proper train arrived about two minutes later.

I've always found the conductors (capotreni?) very pleasant but I suppose anyone can have a bad day. I've seen examples where they were cheerful and polite and only issued a verbal warning, or in the case of those who didn't have a reservation, just charged them the reservation fee. I've also seen a few that were short tempered and nasty, and weren't in the mood to listen to excuses.

It would be unfortunate to let this one bad experience prevent you from returning to the Cinque Terre, as it's a beautiful area with lots to offer.

We just concluded a pleasant, though soggy, three day trip to Vernazza, but getting there turned into a train challenge. We boarded the train to La Spezia in Pisa at the designated platform. I even checked the electronic sign on the side of the train to verify it was the La Spezia train. Just before departure an announcement was made in Italian and we were on our way. About 45 minutes into the ride I noticed that none of the stops corresponded to the stops on the way to La Spezia on the Trenitalia app. I asked an English speaking Italian couple if we were going to La Spezia and they told me the last minute announcement was that the train was going to Rome! The opposite direction! I consulted the app and bought a ticket to La Spezia from the next stop. €60 Euro later (ouch!) we were on our way to Vernazza via La Spezia. A frustrating and costly experience to be sure, but stuff happens. So I have two points in my response. First, don’t let a bad experience ruin your trip. You jumped though a lot of hoops to get here, so make the most of it. Second, if anyone is traveling by train in Italy, download the Trenitalia app. I’m not an experienced train traveller and have found it to be extremely user friendly. I’ve used it every time, even on trips from one town to the next in the CT. You can download your ticket to Wallet very easily. In fact, I showed the Wallet ticket this morning to the conductor on the regional train from Vernazza to Levanto, and again on the intercity to Milan.

I am on the train from the CT to Milan after 3 enjoyable, though soggy, days in Vernazza. It’s unfortunate what happened with the train, but don’t let the experience ruin your trip. On our way to Vernazza from Pisa 4 days ago we boarded the train to La Spezia on the assigned platform, and just before departure I even checked the electronic board on the side of the train and it gave La Spezia as the destination. An announcement in Italian was made and we were soon on our way. 45 minutes into the trip I checked the status and none of the stops we passed were included. I asked a young Italian couple who spoke English and they told me that the announcement in Italian was a last minute change of the platform to La Spezia. Ugh! Unknown to us, we were headed to Rome! We got off at the next stop in a town I’ve never heard of to get back on a train to La Spezia. I was frustrated because we did everything right but speak Italian. Stuff happens, but we certainly didn’t let it ruin our trip. No one was working at the station where we turned around, but thankfully I had downloaded the extremely user friendly Trenitalia app and €60 (ouch!) later we were on our way. I used the app on every trip within the CT, even 1 stop trips. You can download each trip into Apple Wallet, which I just used to show the conductor for this train to Milan. I’m not an experienced Italy train traveller, so I give the app 5 stars and strongly recommend its use for train travel within Italy.

Locals make the same mistake.

We boarded a train from Venice to Milan. It was really late. At one of the stops, an Italian fellow boarded and wanted our reserved seats. He was yelling at us, but we understood nothing. A kind Italian woman who spoke some English intervened and checked our tickets and his ticket. She said our train was so late, he made the mistake of boarding it instead of the later one he was booked on. She told us not to move.

She and the fellow yelled at each other for at least twenty minutes over it! He finally shuffled off. No idea if the conductor every caught up with him.

I think part of the issue here is that the tone of the OP’s post suggests that perhaps the conductor is being unfairly maligned. In my mind, it’s quite possible he was neither exceedingly rude nor exceedingly hostile.

He was, after all, doing what he is supposed to do according to fare structures and ticket rules. If one didn’t appreciate his doing his job, it’s possible one could perceive any such action as rude and hostile, when in fact he was possibly just being perfunctory and trying to get done with this transaction and on to the rest of his work.

I was given a stern mini-lecture on a Swiss train by the conductor once because he didn't like how I filled out the FROM and TO sections on that day's railpass. Figured out later that the train companies get reimbursed by Eurailpass and there would be several companies involved so it matters to them. Lesson learned.

We all make mistakes when traveling (I got fined once in Paris for using the metro ticket on the RER outside the city limits), but those chaps are just doing their work and is not an easy one.

All you have to do is google 'CAPOTRENO PICCHIATO (or MALMENATO)', which means 'conductor battered', and you will find literally hundreds of articles, just in the past year, about conductors being badly injured by patrons without valid ticket, or now without covid mask, some of them were knifed. Most of those assaults are from foreigners like you (although probably not American tourists).

My father was a supervisor for ATAF (Florence City Bus Agency) and in the very early '70s, before becoming a supervisor, he was one of those 'ticket checkers' who would get on board and check if passengers had validated their ticket after boarding. Occasionally he also had his scary moments where the police had to intervene.

I remember in those years my father telling me about the young hippy travelers (many of them Americans) who were continually cheating and trying to play dumb with all kind of crazy excuses when he caught them without a validated ticket.

I'm willing to bet that many of those very same American hippies, mad at my father for having being caught cheating the Italian transportation systems in those days, today are traveling retirees reading this RS' website, and probably even writing comments in this forum and lecturing others about following the rules.

we did everything right but speak Italian.

Sorry, but you are wrong.
There are no trains from La Spezia to Rome that call at Pisa. So the electronic board couldn't list La Spezia either as Departure or as Arrival station. There are trains from Genoa to Rome that call at La Spezia, Pisa ecc. In short when the train arrived you looked at the electronic board near the door, but you ignored the line with the train number and type, the line "Da/From Genova P.Principe" and the line "A/To Roma Termini". You only checked a the scrolling of intermediate stations, noticed La Spezia and got on.
You did the same mistake of the webmaster above, but you are a tourist and for a tourist you made a understandable mistake. Just like is understandable that one can ride Italian trains for 12 years and not memorize the 6 letters used to shorten the 3 types of trains run by Trenitalia.
It's different for a supposed tour leader who didn't check the departures monitor when he/she entered the station, so he did not learn his train was late. Then, at the track he/she did not glance at the board hanging over the platform listing the next train stopping there. Something a professional should do by instinct in small stations with trains stopping every minute. When the (wrong) train arrived, instead of checking the train type and the train number our webmaster looked at the list of intermediate stations.
How a tour leader can not know that the train number is the first (if not the only) thing to check before getting on is beyond my comprehension.

Is it true that one can validate a rail ticket by writing the date used on the reverse side? I've read that a bus ticket may be validated thus, say, if the validation machine is busted or there is an entire class of Italian high school students between you and the machine.

Thanks for the warning, now I am wondering if I have been diligent or just lucky getting on the right trains in Cinque Terre. I would never allow a perceived bad experience to stop me from going anywhere. Can you tell us how you reacted when you learned of your mistake and the request for the fine? I am sure you protested? Where upset? Confused on how to get on the correct train? upset at the delay in your day? International travel can be really stressful sometimes and I am wondering if maybe the situation was escalated based in part, by your groups reaction/protest? One of him against a big group of upset tourist...I think in that situation if I was the conductor I too would have possibly come across as "rude and hostile" in order to maintain order and fulfill my job responsibilities. I also would not call 50€ "extremely expensive" in the grand scheme of the cost of traveling.

Like many others I too have gotten on the wrong train, been in the wrong seat in the wrong compartment, and have had to self correct, through the kindness of strangers, conductors, fellow travelers and my own wits. It's all part of the wonderful adventures of traveling.

I hope the rest of your trip went well and I am sure this experience made you much more savvy travelers!