Cash

I think that you will find that the amount you get "dinged" for International charges is far less than what you lose at an exchange house, but if you can, check their rates.

Also, the International charges vary greatly between financial institutions. Banks like Chase, USBank, and some other can be as high as 3%. A lot of credit unions just pass on the 1% charge from what's called "the network". Well Fargo (for customers) charges $5 for a withdrawal of up to $500, so about 1%. A few brokerages eat the 1% charge as a service to you.

These charges were in effect the last time I checked.

You're paying what, maybe 3-4% (maybe more?) extra buying your Euros ahead of time? Just so you can avoid paying maybe half that in Europe? And you're planning on carrying $2500 in Euros around with you? And then you'll pay 3-4% converting any leftover Euros back to dollars? I don't think it makes any sense financially, but aside from the security concern of carrying so much cash around, you're just out maybe an extra $100 doing it your way.

There are a lot of searchable threads on ways to save. There are debit cards like Schwab that cover your international fees.

I can't really tell you what your daily budget should be. I don't know how you travel, your destinations, your season or the number of people. There's a thread here about it. https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/italy/daily-budget-for-italy

A credit card is a really useful travel tool. Your debit card doesn't offer nearly the protection that a credit card would.

A cel phone with data is also really useful.

Perhaps open a new bank account with just enough in it to cover your trip and have it come with a credit card.
I would not bring that much cash with me….what if it is all lost, then what?
If you do bring it, be sure to split it up among your group so that no one person is carrying it all.
And….bring more than one debit card , for two different accounts.
If you lose a debit card it’s a much bigger problem than losing a credit card.

I’m curious how you manage at home with no credit card?
Also, if you have an emergency in Europe, need to rebook flights, pay for something like car rental or any number of scenarios, you are going to need a credit card.

Do let us know what you decide in the end.

I think that you will greatly benefit from embracing the XXI century and start using debit/credit cards to pay at least the more significant expenses, like lodgings and restaurants. I do use hard cash for smaller purchases, like an espresso or cappuccino at a coffee bar or for the occasional gelato, but exchanging dollars for hard cash is costly. Besides the exchange rates applied you will likely have to pay a withdrawal fee each time you use your ATM card to withdraw money. I usually withdraw cash from my Italian bank but if I used my Chase bank they would charge me $5 per withdrawal.
You don’t need to use credit cards, but a debit/ATM card would be useful. The 3% fee is probably less than the fee you will pay to exchange hard cash.

Honestly, so much is paid for with a credit card in Europe these days, that hardly anyone carries much cash. Is there a reason that you cannot shop around and get a credit or debit card with little or no international transaction fees? It would make everything so much easier.

Since your hotels and train tickets and excursions are already paid for, what do you anticipate spending cash on? Even with four people, that $2500 is $625 each, so are you thinking that this would be for food?

I think there is some confusion. The exhange house charges a $5 fee for the transaction, then whatever is the current rate of that day. For example $100 is worth maybe 87 euros, so my cash is not $2500 but 2125 euros. I OWN a credit card but opt not to use one, but have one for an emergency. That sum divided by 13 days amounts to 167 euros per day for 4 people that will need to eat and pay for other essentials. I was actually wondering if Italy is trending towards cashless, recently at a Yankee game and a day trip to Lego land no cash was allowed.

If by "exchange house", you mean one of those brick and mortar currency exchange places in various downtowns, tourist centers and airports, you're absolutely getting ripped off.

That $5 fee is just gravy to them. They make more money by giving you an exchange rate that is sometimes 10% worse than the interbank exchange rate + any bank charges. Your Euros might end up costing you $1.22 vs $1.12 at an Italian bank ATM. That's $250 on your $2500.

€167 divided by 4 is €41.75 per day per person. Not really that much for two or three meals each day, plus anything else you want to buy.

I think you need more like €100 per day for each person, so that's €5600 for two weeks. I guess if you don't use cards, then that's what you need to bring.

And I agree that your budget is pretty tight but so much depends on where in Italy you are and when you are traveling, not to mention how you travel. You can absolutely make €42 work, even in Rome in August but you'd be avoiding tourist dining, maybe skipping lunch occasionally after a huge hotel breakfast, limiting tours, taking public transit, choosing more cost-effective experiences. But in Calabria or Sicily, your €42 stretches a bit more.

...locally there is an exchange house to convert to euros and when I return I can convert what is left back to dollars.

Have you checked their rate against a published rate on a site like this-- https://www.xe.com/currencyconverter/ -- to confirm you are getting the real 'going rate' with only the $5 fee added?. If that is the case I am amazed they are still in business.

As for the daily budget. ~40euro per person for 2 meals per day, transportation in each city ( bus, taxi or whatever) admission fees (apart from your pre-paid excursions) and trinkets may be optimistic.

My dinner for 4 last night in Florence was 190€. I don’t think I spent less than 40€ per person in the last few weeks except for some places in the countryside where I doubt you will go if you don’t have a car. So your 167€ a day will be enough for one dinner and nothing else. No lunch, no snacks, no drinks, no taxi rides, no museums, no shopping.

I can't remember the last time I paid something in cash, but rest assured that cash is still welcome in Italy. Cabbies will love you... Unfortunately, this way you'll be a walking target for pickpockets.

Don't you have top-up / rechargeable cards in your home country?

Otherwise there are options like Wise's debit cards that are meant for international travels and are quite cheap. Get one, use it in Italy and then throw it away when it's time to go home.

And the biggest issue I want to stress is that you are actually much less protected with a debit card. Don't take my word for it though. Here is

Nerdwallet:
https://www.nerdwallet.com/credit-cards/learn/credit-card-vs-debit-card-safer-online-purchases

and CNBC:
https://www.cnbc.com/select/why-paying-with-credit-card-safer-than-debit-cash/

In addition to the higher exchange rates, I would be concerned about carrying that much cash and a single debit card as well as not having a cell phone. I am an experienced traveler, but on the first day of our recent trip to Italy, my husband was pickpocketed in Milan. It wasn't in a crowded tourist spot, but rather a quiet street while we were waiting for the light to change. It happens. If we had been carrying all our cards (rather than having left debit cards and emergency credit cards at the hotel), it would have been far worse than it was. Our credit card company was able to update our Apple Pay remotely as our physical cards were being sent to our home address. We paid with our phones the rest of the trip, which was actually far more secure, as it required our fingerprints for each transaction. When you are offered the option of paying in Euros or Dollars, always choose Euros.

That sum divided by 13 days amounts to 167 euros per day for 4 people that will need to eat and pay for other essentials.

I usually spend between $75 and $100 per day for food, attractions and miscellaneous stuff, that includes usually one restaurant meal per day. I'm not a big spender. Your budget seems a bit tight.

Be aware that many places in Europe are going cashless. We spent May in England and lots of places, including the Hilton Manchester airport was completely cashless.

I also can't imagine traveling in Europe nowadays without a smart phone. We used our iPhones as navigation aids while hiking, finding great places to eat and as our photo and video camera. I left my mirrorless camera at home.

Have a great trip!

Do other people in your party have a phone and credit card? I would suggest it’s risky to travel without both in case of an emergency. Obviously, it’s possible to do so but you’re making life hard for yourself.

Your currency converter will be making money by offering you a less good exchange rate than you’d get paying by card in your destination. Most currency converters in the UK charge no fees at all and make their entire profit this way. Paying with a good card for travel is always the cheapest way of spending abroad.

Judycouture,

I was actually wondering if Italy is trending towards cashless, recently at a Yankee game and a day trip to Lego land no cash was allowed.

My son & his wife visited Italy last month (10 days) and they used their phones to pay for pretty much everything ( restaurants, gelato, souvenirs, local transportation, etc, etc.)
They took 200€ in cash and only spent half of them.

I hope you reconsider and get a phone &/or use your credit card.

Just make sure you’re pickpocket proof by carrying all your valuables in a hidden pocket, or money belt, under your clothes.
As Roberto advised, “pretend you don’t have any pockets”

Enjoy your trip!

A few thoughts from me:

-I would strongly reconsider travelling without a mobile (smart) phone. There are so many things you need it for while travelling- from maps to being able to access your emails for confirmations etc, to being able to access your online banking if you need to move money around or check on things, finding places to eat and making bookings, not to mention communicating with people back home in case of an emergency (on either end!). Plus anything requiring two factor authentication.

-I also don't have a credit card, as many people living in Europe don't- they're a lot less common here. However, from this forum I have come to understand that debit card holders in the US are not afforded the same protections we are in the UK so I understand the reluctance to use them while travelling. I recommend getting something like Revolut which is a card you can load with money from your bank account and then use without any foreign transaction fees (including for cash withdrawals if needed). We have been using Revolut for all foreign travel for over a decade now.

-I was most recently in Italy in April, and the only thing I can remember using cash for was to leave a tip for the hotel cleaning staff. That's not to say you can't use cash but it seems much less common these days. I've also come to learn from this forum that in Italy the law says all businesses must accept card (of course that's not to say all businesses comply).

-I agree with others who say it's unlikely you're going to get a good rate withdrawing all that cash ahead of time. And I would be so worried carrying all that cash around with me. I also agree that budget does not seem like enough for four people for two weeks. I suggest looking at a few menus online of places you might want to eat to get a sense of how much you're likely to spend on food and think about what other things you might spend money on (entrance fees, other local transport, other drinks/snacks) to get a realistic sense of what you might need to budget.

Good luck with your planning!

Another point about eating in some restaurants in Italy is the “coperto” or cover charge.
This is to cover the bread, water, table-linens.
It could be anywhere from E1-5 per person, so be sure to budget for that too.

There is no need to tip for anything in Italy, that should balance the inconvenience of paying a couple of euros for free bread refills.

We were in Italy in April, we used cash a lot. We did not find anyone who would not accept it. For 16 nights for two of us, it cost just under $ 6000 euros. That included, hotel, transportation, sightseeing and food. We tend to eat a nice dinner out with wine most nights, have breakfast at the hotel, and lunch may be from a grocery store.
I think you could get by on your budget, as it is mainly food, ( sounds like most of your other expenses are planned for), but it might involve getting groceries instead of each meal out. However it can be lots of fun to grocery shop in italy

6000€ for 16 days (15 nights?) is 400€ a night for a couple. Assuming an average 200€ a night for a 3 star hotel, that is 100€ a day per person for everything else, which is what several commenters have stated above. However the OP is planning on a little over 40€ per person per day for everything but the hotel and trains) and that is very tight in my opinion. You can’t eat at too many restaurants for under 35-40€ per person. Im sure they will use a taxi from the airport/station to the hotel and back, and taxicabs in Italy are outrageously expensive.

Lisa, That is exactly what I am doing! I had spent many years working in restaurants, and sadly many are dirty and eating out ALL the time is not my thing. I have already done my research on dining out; however, I made sure each place we stay at has a fully equipped kitchen. My question was whether Italy was trending towards cashless, and from what I am hearing it is not.

“ The exhange house charges a $5 fee for the transaction, then whatever is the current rate of that day. ”

Like any other business, exchange houses make money by buying something for a certain price and then selling it to you for a higher price. The rate the exchange houses charges you when you buy the Euros from them is the official exchange rate plus a certain percentage. In addition to that they apparently also charge an additional $5.
When you want to sell any leftover Euros back to them, you will get a poorer rate. Even if you would exchange $1000 into Euros and sell it back to them immediately, you will lose money.

The same principle applies when you pay for things in another currency with your debit or credit card. You will never get the official exchange rate.

And as other have mentioned before, it’s not wise to carry your entire holiday budget in cash on you. A few years ago there was a story of a women on this forum who was on holiday in Italy and lost a substantial amount of Euros.

Many Italians pay with digital means (cards, phones), but it is not cashless, in the sense that cash is accepted everywhere as long as the payment in cash does not exceed €4,999.99. Cash transactions of €5,000 or more are prohibited by law. If you want to eat for less than 40€ per person a day, buying your own groceries and cooking at your apartment is the only way to go. Groceries in Italy cost generally half what they cost in the US, especially produce, which is much cheaper.

You said you prepaid for accommodations, however that amount may not have included the City’s “imposta di soggiorno” (tourist tax). That tax varies from municipality to municipality, and by type of accommodation. In the city of Florence and in the City of Rome, for example, for vacation apartment rentals (like AirBnB), it is 6€ per person per night (up to a max of 7 nights). So for 4 people it would be an extra 24€ per night. That may not have been included in the sum that you prepaid, for example when I prepay with booking.com, I still have to pay the hotel that tax when I check out, as it is never paid to booking.com. Check if what you paid included that, and if not make sure you have sufficient funds for that.

I take cash (around 2500 3000 euros for under three weeks) when travelling to Europe, buying them in my home country. Any day trips, train trips are paid before leaving, but I take credit card for the hotels, or any larger purchases. I prefer cash as it controls my spending and when travelling with others, it is easier to pay for meals. I take enough cash out during the day, leaving the rest securely locked up in the hotel room. If travelling between cities, my valuables, including the cash is worn in my Stashbandz (under my clothes). It is very secure and discreet.

My brother used a debit card and wasn’t charged fees on his. People recommend Wise and Revolute debit cards, but not sure if they are available in the USA.
As for a mobile phone. I take my smart phone each trip, but have never used it and when I did need to, it wouldn’t log into the local network. Just take paper copies of reservations etc with you and smaller denominations of Euros if possible. . Tourists have been successfully travelling to Europe for decades without either credit cards or a mobile phone, although in Vienna last September, Demels only accepted credit cards.

Have a great two weeks

No matter what you decide, I suspect that net impact will be not more than $200 on a not less than $7500 trip. So, given that, I would do what makes me most at ease.

Is the $2500 enough? Your budget is about $180 a day which is essentially for food for 4 people. Sure, as long as you have your ATM card with you so you can pull more cash if you guessed wrong. All depends on your lifestyle. Rome isnt cheap, Florence isnt cheap, Milan isnt cheap. The rest of italy is not too much different than the cost in Kansas City.

“coperto” or cover charge.
This is to cover the bread, water, table-linens.

not water, not in Italy

Im pretty sure that Kansas City is significantly more expensive than any place in Italy, except for (maybe) Milan, the most expensive city in Italy. The only thing that might cost more in Italy is car transportation, mainly due to the high cost of fuel, but anything else, from food to house rent, will be cheaper in Italy.

Tourism district prices and tourism spending decisions arent local economy prices was more my point.

“Coperto” (2 to 5€) and also “Servizio” (10% to 15%) is a hidden fee much like the hidden fees applied by American restaurants, some of which have spring up in restaurant bills recently, such as:
Fair Wage Fee (3% to 7%)
Health Mandate Fee (3% to 10%)
Gratuity (virtually mandatory) (20% or more)
State Sales Tax (in Italy, called IVA or Value Added Tax), which in Italy is always included in the menu price by law.

All these fees actually often add at least 30% to the prices displayed in the menu.

It is a gimmick that restaurants use to understate the menu prices, so that you feel better and are not price shocked. They are not the only merchants using that gimmick. Hotels and airlines often do the same.

I wish they pass a law where everybody had to display the prices inclusive of absolutely everything.

Roberto wrote I wish they pass a law where everybody had to display the prices inclusive of absolutely everything. I cannot tell you how many times I have heard that from my friends here about the US. Never mind hotels, sales tax confounds them all - it varies from city to city, county to county, state to state. It's added to some things some times but not to others, and the rates may vary depending on the type of item. Euope is easy in comparison.

I've been following this thread because I'm headed to Italy in 2 months and a day. I have a hoard of cash from several years ago (acquired when the exchange rate was very favorable) and use it for all my lodgings, except the one that requires prepayment. I'll prepay my 2 expensive train tickets as well. That still leaves me with a lot of euros. I have a credit card that I will use when necessary or convenient, but I refuse to use my phone for anything monetary out of a phobia about it going walkabout.

Perhaps it is time to reconsider how you do your finances. I can name at least three institutions - Schwab, Fidelity, and CapOne - from which you can have an account that is handled electronically here, does not charge any foreign transfer fee or "ding" when you withdraw cash or use it as a debit card from abroad, and if you avoid DCC when the terminal asks you get within a fraction of the international rate (very much NOT like exchange booths, which are not "exchanges" but are "purchases" of cash.) And since you must need a credit card for airline tickets and reservations in advance, I don't see why you are not using that credit card in Italy. Again, there are many cards that do NOT charge the 3% transfer fee and the charge to you is at bank rates. Surely it must be safer to carry a couple cards deep in your pocket rather than a pile of cash. FWIW, Imy partner and I recently did 2+,weeks in Italy.We used about 55 Euro, which went for a couple city hotel taxes (some surprisingly let us pay them on the credit card, a small souvenir on the street, and a laundromat. Not having a cell phone is a personal choice, it is not needed for travel, you do not need to keep your wallet on the phone.

Since I leave in 33 days for Venice and northern Italy, as a budget traveller I’m following this thread out of curiosity. I pay almost everything by credit card but I do carry some cash. Daily cash is budgeted around €50 but I often don’t use it. This will be my fourth trip to Italy.

Judy, you don’t say who and how old the four of you are. But what if you get separated, how are you going to communicate? Are each of you responsible for at least part of your daily allowance so all your cash is not is one place? Is everyone wearing a money belt or neck wallet?

My favorite B&B is cash only so I carry enough euros for them, plus hotel city taxes and gelato/water/snack money. My neighbor has a bunch of euros from closing his German bank account so I am buying what I need from him with only a convenience mark up; it’s win-win for both of us.

As a solo traveler, I can’t imagine traveling anywhere without a cell phone with data plan, at least two higher limit credit cards from different banks and a debit card from a small “travel account”. Credit cards and debit card should be no transaction, no fee. I wear a Stashbandz money belt and do not keep money in the hotel room.

As has often been said on this forum: if something happens, your passport and a credit card will get you home.

Maybe I should have given more detail. I am traveling with my partner, our 28 year old daughter and our 10 year old granddaughter. My daughter could not survive without her cell phone, hence my refusal to own one, so there is a cell phone, however when she is not with us we have mangaged on our own. I am not shy to ask for help if needed and 99% of people are happy to assist. All 4 of us retrieved cash at EFX exchange, so everyone has spending money, with me being the main bank! Again this post was merely about cashless verses card only. So sorry there is confusion.

There is nothing wrong with your plans. Its all about what works for you. You can certainly do life on cash. And it sounds like you have emergency backup, enjoy.

Regarding Capital One mentioned above. The last I heard they re transitioning all debit and credit cards to the discover network. Discover is not widely accepted in Europe. At least not as widely accepted as Visa and Mastercard.