Car rental/traffic violations

The other 3 were probably ZTL violations, which were also picked up by cameras.
Thanks for the warning to others. If more people followed this forum, they would save a ton of money.

I was on Rick Steves website before my trip and never heard a peep! Nothing on Facebook or any other sites that I visited! Wish people would talk about it. It truly hurt our wallet and really P----Ed is off.

You are relatively new to this site. But this subject is frequently discussed. The Italians expect you to follow the law even if the perception is that the Italians don't. Another good warning. Most of the signs follow the International standards for traffic signs.

We did speed, which is why those tickets were definitely warranted. The others however, we were not aware of anything that we had done wrong. We abided ( or so we thought) by international rules of driving.

Tough news to come home to. Thanks for sharing. I've read so many of these warnings on this site, that I insist on sticking with public transportation when we're in Europe.

I guess I was reading the wrong forums!
Apparently missed the warnings!

I saw your original post about renting a car in Italy. Nobody warned you. Sometimes it may seem to impolite to point out, what to us, is the obvious. If you would have said that you planned to drive through central Florence, that would have brought out the warnings. So lets blame this one on Roberto. If Ken had responded to your post, he would have given you the full rundown, robo-cam speed traps, ZTL's, need for an IDP. And validate your train tickets!

Yes, the warnings about ZTL's were there tucked away in the Transportation section of this website as well as in many, many sad stories posted here. Sorry you didn't come across them in time to warn you. But you aren't alone !!

You probably missed the warnings because they seem to always be posted under "Scams." To your credit, you posted it where it belongs and where it will help the most people.

In defense of Roberto, and others, I looked back at the responses to your driving and car rental question, and it appeared that you decided to use the train system. That may be why no one warned you.

For future reference, gemut.com has a free downloadable brochure on renting a car and driving in Europe, including Italy: http://www.gemut.com/car-rentals/free-rental-car-booklet.html. There is lots more information on that website for potential car renters and drivers in Europe.

I also did a quick little Google search on driving in Italy and found many useful references, but I liked this one: http://www.reidsitaly.com/planning/get_around/car_home.html.

I know this response won't help you now, but I hope it will help others who read it.

If you post the details you received in Italian, I can tell you what they are for.

ZTL signs (and red lights), evenin English in Florence, or bus lane signs are posted before any entry point, therefore if you got any of those violations you have no one but yourself to blame. I have a heavy foot, so I have been pulled over for speeding occasionally on both sides of the Atlantic, but to violate the ZTL and not realize it, one has to sleep at the wheel.

annie,

Sorry I didn't see any of your previous posts. I try to provide information to as many travellers as possible on the "potentially expensive caveats" of driving in Italy.

As the others have mentioned, some of the tickets were probably violations for driving into ZTL (limited traffic areas). Places like Florence enforce these with automated cameras, and the main part of the city is just about saturated with ZTL cameras. EACH pass through one will result in a violation ticket. Smaller cities use "cops on the beat" to enforce ZTL's. The tickets could also have been for driving in a Bus lane.

With speeding tickets not only are standard speed cameras used, but on the motorways they have a clever and devious device called the Traffic Tutor, which registers not only instantaneous speed, but also average speed between two points. If you violate both parameters, expensive tickets will follow.

As Roberto mentioned, if you could provide the details, he will be able to give you all the information on what offenses you were ticketed for. He's from Italy and is an expert on such matters.

For future reference, there are also some potentially expensive "caveats" when using trains and other public transit. Especially for travel in Italy, it pays to do your homework!

Good luck with the tickets.

Yep, traffic fines in Italy are talked about a lot on the forums. In addition to ZTL and speeding tickets, driving in bus lanes can earn you a fine as well. Just a few of the reasons why we love Italian trains!

Travelers beware: many signs in Italy are in Italian! In fact, most signs are not in English.

Sorry. I just couldn't help myself.!

The be fare, I did originally ask about traveling via rail between the cities we were going to visit. We did later change to car. I may have not been looking in the right forums to get the information I needed. Thank you everyone for taking the time to educate the rest of us. Hopefully this forum as well as others posted will help people not fall into the same traps.

Sorry you (and your pocketbook) got zapped.

Every time somebody brings it up others benefit.

I am so glad that you mentioned it in the proper Italy Forum, instead of just complaining and screaming that it must be a scam.

Since you may not have been looking for what are called scams you may have missed some if the most recent threads.....

Most signs in Italy are not in Italian. They are the symbols from the International Road Sign system from the 1968 Vienna Treaty, like the rest of Europe. All ZTL zones are preceded by a round white circle with a red border, which, according to the International System, means no motor vehicles allowed. An example of how that sign looks is below:
http://ilmediano.com/ztl-via-libera-con-il-contrassegno-disabili/

In Florence, thanks to the action of some tourist associations, the City has also installed at every ZTL entrance signs in English and street lights that turn red when the ZTL is active (I.e. during the day until 8pm). There are also visible camera apparatus overhead. An illustration of a ZTL gate in Florence is below.
http://it.apartmentsflorence.it/parcheggiare-Firenze

So not sure what I can say. San Francisco doesn't have signs in German or Japanese before bus lanes, in spite of the many German or Japanese speaking tourists.

As I stated before, NOW WE INOW!

Sorry Annie and thanks for helping to get he word out. I would add that few Americans understand the prevalence of enforcement cameras in Italy and elsewhere in Europe because the US has so little of that. And I don't know of any ZTL restrictions in the US. The zones may be well marked in Italy, but if someone doesn't even know about them, they would be pretty easy to miss. You would have to know what a ZTL is to understand the meaning of the sign. And as noted by someone else, many highways in Italy have special camera zones in which the average speed is calculated and one cannot just slow down where fixed cameras are located to avoid a ticket - another thing that is pretty unheard of in the US.

I think the lesson here, which the OP had to learn the hard way is if you are entering the country, just don't think you will get there and go rent a car on a whim. If you think you might rent a car you need to research in advance things like road signs, unique customs, rules of the road, parking, etc...
Maybe you can get away with that in a Caribbean Island country that is very small and catering to tourism but it is something that should not be taken so lightly.
I would hope foreigners visiting my country would do the same, as if they don't follow our rules I would not give them any sympathy, I am sure the OP would not either.

ZTL's are unique to us in the US but so are vignette stickers required in many European countries. Forget or don't know to buy one of those and don't expect the police to feel compassion toward you.

That's well put mreynolds.

By the way, if you update your profile we will know a little bit more about you instead of just seeing you as a connection of letters. (others can, too - just click on your name where it says "Signed in as______" in the upper left, and you can complete your profile)