car or rail pass?

A rail pass never makes financial sense for travel within Italy. Get point-to-point tickets instead. There are substantial discounts for buying those in advance.

With 5 people, an automobile would be a viable transportation alternative even at over $9 per gallon for gasoline. Italy is relatively easy to negotiate the roads with a good road map or European GPS. You would do much better if you bought open jawed tickets, flying into Rome and leaving from Venice; or vice versa. Let me just say I'd hate to try to haul 5 people to 10 different places in 14 days. Just dealing with luggage and logistics would be tough. Backtracking to Rome would also be expensive. When traveling in Italy, we prefer to stay in a central location for 4-5 days and then move to another region. We stayed at Florence, then Chianti agriturismo (doing day trips), then Rome staying in the suburbs. We ran up to Venice one day from Chianti. Italy has so much culture, history, art and architecture that it deserves to be experienced slowly. You should consider dropping Amalfi coast because you'd have to also need to tour Naples area. Pisa and the C/T are out of the way and might be best saved for another trip. You're only there 2 weeks. Rental cars in Italy can often be dropped in other cities with no drop off fee. Many people will take a train from city to city, and then rent a car for a day or two to tour the region. Tuscany is one of those places where a car is needed. Rome, Florence and obviously Venice are not places to take cars into--very expensive parking fees. I just suggest keeping your trip as simple as possible with 5 people. And, enjoy your trip.

Lindsey, A few comments on train vs. rental car question...... > A car that can handle 5 people plus luggage is going to be more expensive than the "typical" rental. With a larger vehicle, the fuel consumption will likely be higher as well. > I doubt that travel by car will be as fast as by train, especially on longer routes. The Freccia trains travel at ~300 kmH, which cars can't match, and trains aren't affected by traffic. > In addition to cost of the rental, CDW and fuel, you'll also need to budget for parking, tolls and possibly fines. > Does your 14 day time frame include your two flight days? If I read correctly, you're proposing to visit 11 towns/areas from northern to southern Italy in 14 days, an average of 1.2 days each, with no allowances for travel times. I'm not sure if that's realistic? > Note that EACH driver will require the compulsory International Driver's Permit, which is used in conjunction with your home D.L. These are easily obtained at any AAA office for a small fee. Failure to produce an IDP if requested can result in fines on the spot! My best suggestion is that unless you can increase your time frame, you'll probably have to skip some of the places you listed. Two locations that stand out are the Amalfi Coast and Pisa. Using well planned rail links to reach locations will be faster and more efficient. There's no cost benefit in pre-buying tickets on Regionale trains, but considerable savings are possible by pre-buying tickets on the premium trains (although the buying process can be problematic). Using open jaw flights would be the best idea (inbound Venice, outbound Rome?). Good luck with your planning!

Well, in my humble opinion, you can't do all of that in a 2-week time frame in a way that is sane. We did very similar stops this past July and spent four weeks doing it. Before you can deal with the issue of transport, you have to do a reality check about how much you will enjoy a trip in which 25% of your time awake might be spent getting from one place to another. Off the top of my head, I would omit the Amalfi coast, as it is the logistical oddball of the bunch, you can see Pompeii-like stuff in Ostia Antica, outside of Rome, and you can see seaside villages in the Cinque Terre. Of all the stops we made last July, the Amalfi Coast was my least favorite, in part because it was insanely stressful to drive. Which brings me to the issue of transport; We drove for three weeks in Italy. It can be done. It's not a big deal, for the most part. However, we did almost all of this driving in rural areas where trains were either non-existant or impractical for efficient connections. Every location on your list is efficiently serviced by trains. If you attempt to drive to these locations, you will not only pay a lot in tolls and pass many opportunities for tickets, but you will experience seriously difficult parking issues and the dreaded ZTL's (the heart of the city you are not allowed to enter). So the short answer is this; NONE OF THE ABOVE. Eliminate a stop or two (or four). Take trains. Buy the tickets from Trenitalia as soon as they become available (90 or 92 days ahead, if I remember correctly?) and you will get greatly reduced "smart" fares. To investigate these fares further, simply visit the Trenitalia web site and pick a date 90 days from now to see prices equivalent to what you would see in the summer if you bought in March.

5 will likely save by renting a car, even if you need a somewhat larger vehicle. I agree with previous commenters that you are squeezing a lot of ground in 2 weeks (let alone 12 days if flight time from Us is included in the 2weeks). Try again by putting a list of places where you are spending the night. Try to spend at least 2 night in each location you decide to stay the night and possibly day trip from that location. Checking out/checking in, unpacking/repacking, loading/unloading luggage etc. are time wasters, especially when a large family is involved.

5 will likely save by renting a car, even if you need a somewhat larger vehicle. I agree with previous commenters that you are squeezing a lot of ground in 2 weeks (let alone 12 days if flight time from Us is included in the 2weeks). Try again by putting a list of places where you are spending the night. Try to spend at least 2 night in each location you decide to stay the night and possibly day trip from that location. Checking out/checking in, unpacking/repacking, loading/unloading luggage etc. are time wasters, especially when a large family is involved.

Thanks for everyone's advice. I think I will take out a city now after seeing this. I was following the Rick Steves 14 day itinerary in which he said to visit in 14 days: Florence, Venice, Rome, Cinque Terre, Civita (I replaced this with Lake Como as I really would like to see that area), Siena, Sorrento (as the home base to visit his possible suggestions of Naples, Pompeii) and I added a brief stop in Pisa and Verona. Anyways,I think I am going to take out either Florence or Siena... which one is better visit?

Rick generally gives very good advice. However, his advice is generally aimed at singles and couples who are willing to try his blitz (do everything as fast as possible) version of visiting each location. In your case, being a group of five is a lot slower. It just takes more time to do everything, especially transitions. It doesn't seem like a few more minutes should be that big of a deal, but it is - especially when that few more minutes occurs several times each day. Example: On our last morning in Venice, our task was to get up, get to the train station and take the 5-minute ride to the mainland to rent our car. We did everything with as much efficiency as any family of five could possibly expect. How long do you think that "transition" took? Answer; three hours. The other problem with Rick's blitz itinerary is that it is heavy on museums (which offer no discounts for families in Italy, by the way) but only allows a rather short visit for each. And there is very little time available for just "being" without trying to stay on schedule and getting to the next location. Example: My favorite memory of Rome? It's not St. Peter's or the Vatican museums, though those were both great stops. It is the two sunsets we spent simply lingering in St Peter's square, after most of the tourists had gone home. It was free. It was actually peaceful. And for most people trying to keep up with an itinerary, it's just a place to walk through in the middle of the day on your way to somewhere else.

I couldn't agree more with the critique of Rick's approach to cramming so many cities into an itinerary. We've discovered that in almost every instance where we've stayed only two nights in a place, we wished we had stayed three instead. That becomes more true the older we get. :-) That said, we've been forced to do a couple of one-nighters due to flight changes and long layovers. Those allowed us to get a glimpse of Ostia Lido, Copenhagen, and Paris. But it's far from the best way to experience a place. (On the plus side, it did address my curiosity about Paris.)

You ask which place to eliminate between Siena and Florence. That is a hard question because they are so different. I would pick Florence which is amazing with all the history and Museums. Cinque Terre was one of our favorites with walking between the towns and eating near the water. Your plan sounds challenging but, you have picked all great locations....Happy Travel, Eva

Honestly, I would delete more than one destination out of your many choices. Even with dropping one place, you'll still only have 1-2 night stays. That's less than one day in each place. For all the reasons already stated. Which locations you drop kind of depends on the interests of your group. One suggestion is to decide to visit only one part of Italy - only the northern part, or only the southern part, and tell yourselves that you WILL return. Open jaws, as already suggested, is the much more efficient itinerary. Between Siena and Florence, it depends on your interests. If you love Renaissance art, then you can't miss Florence. If not so much, then Siena. Re car vs. train, it's probably best to do a combination. As you know, many cities have restricted zones, which is a hassle, and you'll have to pay for expensive parking. For example, you could start in Venice (no car needed!), then take the train to Florence. From there, rent a car to visit the lakes, Cinque Terre, more rural Tuscany (preferably not all of these locations; you just don't have time), then drop your car somewhere either before or in Rome, where you finish your vacation senza car.

Lindsey, Thanks for the additional information as that provides an idea on how you arrived at this very ambitious Itinerary. To begin with, it would be a good idea to throw out Rick's "suggested 14 day Itinerary". It's only practical under ideal conditions and with extremely well planned transportation and hotel arrangements (IMO). The logistics of trying to this with a group of five will be "problematic". I wish he'd revise those darn things! I don't think that "taking out a city" is going to solve the problem. You simply don't have enough time to visit that number of locations over that wide of an area in two weeks! My advice would be to drop the Amalfi Coast and focus on Rome and north on this trip. As Rick often says "assume you'll return". Could you clarify whether you have 12 days "on the ground" or 14? With such a short time frame, IMO you only have time for about five destinations. You might find it helpful to make a list of all the places you want to visit, and arrange these in order of priority. Pick the top five and then plan for that, using open jaw flights. You might consider a route somewhat like this..... > Day 1 - Depart U.S. > Day 2 - Arrive Venice, touring and jet lag recovery (3 nights) > Day 3, 4 - Venice, tour Doge's Palace, Piazza San Marco, Duomo, Murano/Burano, perhaps day trip to Verona (1H:10M each way via Freccia train). > Day 5 - To Lago di Como (you'll need to decide where you want to go on the lake - there are lots of choices - Varenna is a big favourite with many here). You'll have ~1.5 days for touring (2 nights) > Day 6 - Lago di Como, touring continued.....

Lindsey, Part 2.... > Day 7 - To Cinque Terre. You'll need to decide which of the 5 towns you want to stay in. You'll have ~1.5 days for touring. Not all the towns have good vehicle access, so it might be better to park at the station in La Spezia and use the local trains. The best access is in Monterosso, and that also has the greatest number of hotels and other tourist facilities and the best beach. (2 nights) > Day 8 - Cinque Terre, touring (hike trails?) > Day 9 - To Siena (2 nights). > Day 10 - Siena (perhaps a day trip to Florence, which is easy by Bus) > Day 11 - To Rome (4 nights) > Day 12, 13 - Touring Rome, perhaps a day trip to Orvieto. If you have a car it might be possible to take a day trip to Civita di Bagnoregio instead. There's LOTS to see and do in Rome, so plan your touring carefully. > Day 14 - Flight home Is there any way you could get more time??? That would really help! All of the destinations I've mentioned are easily reachable by train. There are many ways to arrange the Itinerary and this is only one suggestion. Good luck with your planning!

yikes, these posts don't sound encouraging about the planned itinerary (thanks for being honest!) unfortunately these is NO way I can get more time. My mom is a doctor and can't take that much time away from her practice :( We would like to be able to do all of the places just to get a little taste of everything so that if we ever do get the chance to go back we will know where our favorite places were. So our current plan is arrive in Rome, spend 1 night in Rome leave for Sorrento the next day, spend 2 nights there (tour Pompeii) leave Sorrento for Orvieto, spend 2 nights in Orvieto leave Orvieto, spend 2 nights in Florence leave Florence, spend 2 nights in Venice leave Venice, spend 2 nights at Lake Como leave Lake Como, spend 2 nights at Cinque Terre leave Cinque Terre, spend our last night in Rome
We will be there for 14 days total. Basically 2 nights in each town, at least 24 hours in each town, I have booked accomodations for our first night in Rome, 2 nights in Sorrento, 2 nights in Orvieto, and 2 nights in FLorence. I'm a little freaked out that I've gone too quickly in my plannning :( Is Cinque Terre similar enough to the Amalfi Coast that I should take that out of the plan and give one more night to Lake Como and Venice?

I'm thinking that Lake Como could be stop along the way now... It doesn't have the major sights that Venice has so maybe we could stop there for lunch on our way to Cinque Terre and that way we can at least get one more night in Venice and one more night in Cinque Terre.

If we do stick with this schedule I'm happy knowing we have the chance to eat dinner twice in each place and spend a full day of touring around, minus Rome. We aren't big sight seeing people, probably 3 hours at the most before my sister gets bored (she's only 9). I think we'll be more into picking restaurants out, riding a gondola, wine tasting, etc. Super touristy things to do but we are there for probably the most exciting, chaotic trip of our lives. Live and learn right?

Actually, I think you may be doing this a little quickly. Maybe you've done a ton of research already, so pardon me if I'm saying things you already know; Pompeii can be done quickly. In fact, some people do it as a day trip from Rome. It's kind of expensive for a day trip, but it's doable if Pompeii is a non-negotiable stop (as I said before, Ostia Antica outside of Rome is much easier to get to and is just as interesting, if not more so, than the more popular Pompeii). Sorrento is a fine base for doing other things, but it is not a drop-dead-gorgeous stop in itself. The only way to appreciate the Amalfi Coast is to linger there and take boats and busses on various excursions. You don't have time for that. That's why I suggested you skip it before. But if you are dead set on seeing Pompeii, I would suggest you do it as a day trip from Rome - allowing you to stay a 2nd night in the same hotel in Rome. How anyone could go to Italy and spend only a few hours in Rome is another question entirely, but I digress... Orvieto is a very pleasant place to linger, but since you are not into lingering, you really don't need two nights there. You don't really even need one. We spent four hours there and had a very pleasant time. You could easily see what there is to see as a stop on the way between Rome and Florence. Two nights in Florence is fine for a quick look. Florence to Venice is quick and easy. Two nights in Venice is fine for a quick look. Two nights in/near the Cinque Terre is fine for a quick look. Lake Como, again, is a place to linger. So a stop there is awkward and inconvenient. You probably won't see George Clooney, so... Any chance you can fly home from Venice, or is that already set in stone, too? It would make things a lot easier.

Thanks Randy. I have been reading a lot of Ric Steve's book, whic I guess was misleading in that his 2 week itinerary isn't ideal for families. I think I will take out the Amalfi Coast for this trip since you said Sorrento and Pomeii weren't so fabulous and add 2 more nights in Rome. And the rest of the trip is dedicated to 2 nights and close to 2 full days of touring if we leave earlier in the morning to get from place to place.

Well, now you have me feeling like I'm having too much influence on you :) Just for the record, Pompeii really is great. But as ruins, it's not that unique. There are lots of ruins to see in Italy. What makes Pompeii unique is the spector of Vesuvius in the background and the story of the eruption that everyone is familiar with. There isn't a lot there that is eruption-related, however. To a casual observer, Pompeii and Ostia Antica look really similar. Another difference is that Pompeii is crowded with tourists while O.A. will be very peaceful. Once lingering is out of the equation, Rome is MUCH more interesting than Amalfi. You can accomplish a lot in Rome in 2-3 days. Everything around Amalfi takes time. Good luck with the rest of your planning!

We have always driven in Italy. The major pro is that you can go anywhere you want anytime you want. My husband even drove the Amalfi Coast when we spent a week in Minori. I think the key for a first-timer driving in Italy is to have a good person riding "shotgun". If this person is a good map reader your trip will be fun. Talking about where you are going before you leave on your day trip really helps. Here's the deal...IF and WHEN you get lost or off the beaten path...ENJOY the ride. You WILL get to your destination! P.S. You can go around the traffic circles as many times as you want! If you miss your exit...keep circling! Have a great trip.