Cancel car for train?

We have driven in Italy four times with no problem, but we were traveling from small village to small village in rural areas. I don't really see any advantage to having a car for your itinerary. City to city travel is vastly more convenient by train. You can always make use of taxis for transport from station to hotel, and you would still come out ahead budget wise. The hassle of parking within a ZTL (dealing with hotel for permits) or the inconvenience of staying outside the ZTL (necessitating public transit anyway) would just not be worth it to me. On a trip of this length, you have to do laundry at some point regardless, so perhaps that could help lighten your load.

Not giving an opinion either way, just adding a few more factors to consider:

• Have you checked all your hotels have parking? It is not a given. Even if it exists it is often an extra charge.
• "Lucerne, Florence, Rome Milan," - all cities you cannot drive around. Your car will stay parked for the duration of your visit.
• "I watch the videos on U-tube, and Rome doesn't seem that much different than California" - which videos? I have never driven in California, but I read it has big wide freeways through the middle of cities and grid road networks. Rome does not, it has roads barely wide enough for one car in each direction, totally random road orientation (see a map) and no parking.
• And have you researched the traffic laws and road signs? These are sometimes different in each country.

"Are things any better in 2020 or am I just really taking a big risk thinking I can do this by car and come out unscathed?" - it is not that bad, you will come out unscathed. You will just find that a car does not work in a city.
With your wife you may be the exception to the rule and need a car; you then need to tailor the trip appropriately. Don't think big cities, think small towns and countryside.

Sounds like fun, though quite ambitious. First time to Europe covering 2500-3000 km seems like a lot of travel, especially if you're driving. No doubt you've considered the trade offs already, but driving/parking in city centers can be stressful and expensive, and sometimes just not allowed at all. Train/taxi combo can alleviate a lot of that, but I know luggage (especially with ventilation) can get cumbersome to be loading/unloading. You may want to consider paring it back some lest you find you need a vacation from your vacation. Trains in Italy are insanely convenient, fast, and civilized. Perhaps someone else on the forum has suggestions on how to for assistance as a bridge trains to taxis with heavy luggage. Best of luck!

I just remembered this luggage transfer service--I have not used it, but it may be worth investigating:
https://www.trenitalia.com/en/services/luggage_transportservices.html

If you rent a car, you will need an International Driving Permit for Italia.
You will be jet lagged upon arrival. Driving immediately may not be the best idea.

My personal reaction to your itinerary is: too much geography in too little time.
Drop Roma and Österreich.

You're mistaken, it's not like California at all. Any big city will be a nightmarish crawl on crowded medieval one-way streets with wild drivers, to an expensive garage that may not even be near the hotel. Taxis from the train station will be cheaper and more relaxing.

Look at the blue menu top left for free "travel tips" on trains and other topics. Or go to the library for Rick Steves Italy, ANY edition. This is all new to you!

If your wife can handle a backpack, she should be able to handle a backpack the size of the ones students use at school and that might lessen some of the luggage you are having to lug. Dealing with large luggage can be difficult on a train. It would be much easier with a car but I can't imagine having a car in your destinations. I'm sorry to say this, but a luggage tour with an operator geared to senior citizens that helps with luggage(not RS) would be your easiest option.

My rule of thumb for Europe is "If you can take the train, take the train." I save rental cars for places that aren't well served by trains or buses, like tiny Tuscan villages.

If sticking to the country side, driving is not problem and easy. Even driving in the cities is not a problem BUT we found navigation in the cities to be the big huddle. Understanding street signs, street signs sometimes are not frequent or in the location you expect, frequent street name changes, and sometimes the GPS doesn't work because of the tight buildings. When we rented a villa we just drove to the edge of town and parked in what we would call "Park 'n Ride" and took train or bus into the city. That worked well for us. Stories, old or new, probably are accurate since nothing has changed except more cars. If you wife is a good map reader or user of GPS, then you should have no major problems.

Why are Americans so attached to rental cars? Is it just something we’re born with?

I love going to Europe because I can jump on a train and go anywhere I want to go and leave the boat anchor of a rental car behind for the next unsuspecting North American 😉

All good advice coming in! - thank you. A few notes. I did get an IDP and we made sure the car is allowed for Italy. Some are not for some reason. The 3 major 5-6 day stay hotels all had Valet parking, so the only town we really planned to use the car was Florence to go tour Tuscany. Unfortunately that was the hotel inside the B zone ZTL. They said they could white list the plate for us (Westin). The other hotels are outside of ZTLs by a few blocks anyway. Ironically, I noticed that all but one of the hotels are very near the train stations, which got me thinking about this to begin with.

Valadelphia - thank you for the luggage shipping suggestion - my wife is looking at that now.

It’s not really clear what your itinerary actually is

Can you alter at all?
Perhaps fly from Frankfurt to Rome
Then work your way up?
Rental car in Tuscany, drop in Milan?
Then fly to Austria?

What is nice about train is stations are in the center and cabs are readily available to get you to your hotel

"Why are Americans so attached to rental cars? Is it just something we’re born with?"

Because 90% of them have never been on a train in their life.

Christine H
Flights in and out of Frankfurt are fixed, The hotels have some flexibility but its getting leaner. Austria was just a colorful drive back to the Airport, it can be altered. If we go train it will be straight through. The original Itinerary was based on a drive loop that had Naples, but we were talked out of it - hence Milan/Como took it's place on the way back.

Davebarnes
You are probably right - I actually have a fascination with trains, and did some work for Union Pacific over the years. My grandson has rekindled that fascination over the last decade and we take Amtrack when we can just because we can. However, no comparison I'm thinking.

One car advantage I will miss if we change to train is that I love to photograph along the way, and I rarely travel point A to B. I meander and investigate things I see along the way. I'm thinking the train is going to be similar to our motorcoach we recently started traveling with at home - and that is that you just learn to look at it from the window and move on, because getting back to it for a better look is going to take a lot of work, let alone taking pictures.

There's no law in Italy that says you can't supplement your city-to-city train rides with rental cars for rural exploration. We've had good success with this for exploring wine country, etc. A hybrid approach might be the right combo given your objectives/constraints.

I'm not sure that anyone has actually said this: When a fast train is available (Freccia in Italy, perhaps an InterCity from Austria to Germany), it will be much, much faster than a car over the same route.

Example: Rome to Milan

Train: 3 hr. 15 min. Feel free to pack lunch and enjoy it on the way.

Car: 5 hr. 57 min. per ViaMichelin; no stopping, no traffic delays, no navigational errors lost, etc. That's probably optimistic.

One car advantage I will miss if we change to train is that I love to
photograph along the way, and I rarely travel point A to B. I meander
and investigate things I see along the way. I'm thinking the train is
going to be similar to our motorcoach we recently started traveling
with at home - and that is that you just learn to look at it from the
window and move on, because getting back to it for a better look is
going to take a lot of work, let alone taking pictures.

The benefit of the train is that you don't need to focus on the road, you can relax and enjoy the view (and a cup of coffee or a glass of wine) without worrying about traffic.

As usual, I recommend that you visit Gemut.com for basic info on car rental in Europe. They are actually in Oregon, so if you have more questions you can call and talk to a real human being.

They have a great, free, downloadable brochure called, What You Need to Know About Renting & Driving a Car in Europe. It covers all the countries you list and more.

Since most of your time seems to be in Italy, the Man in Seat 61's section on trains in Italy would be very helpful. There are even pictures of the trains. With a lot of heavy luggage and a walker, train travel will also be a challenge, but at least you'll likely arrive in a central location from which you can get a taxi to your lodgings.

We've done 19 trips to Europe and only rented a car once (for four days), so we do virtually everything by public transportation and always recommend that. We're now in our mid-seventies. However (and Lo addressed this obliquely), getting on and off trains requires going up or down a couple of (can be) fairly steep steps. They do have handrails. Only you know how difficult that might be for your wife. And then, if you have a walker and large bags to get on or off at the same time, you could cause a bottleneck for those travelers who are anxious to get on and off the train quickly (the vast majority of folks).

You can’t use the car in those cities. They are like Manhattan, where the car is an expensive hassle to have. You are better off traveling city to city by train, then using taxis from station to hotel and viceversa.
While exploring the city you can walk, take taxis, or public transportation, exactly like you would do visiting Manhattan.

You might want to rent a car for a few days if you plan to visit the countryside or small villages, for example in Tuscany. But if you plan to do that while staying in Florence you can also use public transportation to the towns (buses or trains) or even organized tour with a private driver. Maybe more expensive than a rental car for a day, but less hassle for you, since driving in and out of Florence is often a hassle with traffic.

Yes, it is the boarding of the train the worries us the most. She can get on board OK by herself, but it is up to me to handle all the luggage on the platforms and in the station. Even downsizing we are probably a bit beyond what a normal person can do with a couple of bags, due to her extra gear + the walker. The walker itself can carry stuff down the platforms, but boarding she is only good to get herself on board. Me, I'll have to get the rest on there. Hopefully the train is open long enough for two trips. I can run the luggage up, then come back and get her handcarries and walker. My worst nightmare is the doors close and we are separated, and that has happened before in less extreme circumstances (Airport shuttles).

"Hopefully the train is open long enough for two trips. I can run the luggage up, then come back and get her handcarries and walker."

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this statement. Where is your wife while you are doing this running back and forth? I certainly wouldn't leave anything unattended on the platform or in the train.

If you are at the beginning of your journey, you can get there early enough to position yourself close to or at the door you will go in. If the train starts from where you do, you can probably get on early. The challenge will be if you have to change trains in a short period of time.

Many stations have stairs to go down or up or both to get to the right platform. Some stations have elevators which are designed for those with lots of luggage. These are typically in unusual places, sometimes with long walks to and back from them.

With bad knees and a husband who opted out of European travel 5 years ago, I travel solo. I turned 74 in January. I travel with one carry-on sized roller bag which never weighs over 20 pounds and one personal item that never weighs over 10.

It's hard to imagine, but my advice is to prioritize what you both take. If the medical equipment is #1, start with that. How bulky and heavy is it? Can it be packed in a roller bag in such a way that the bag it is in can handle more stuff and still weigh about 20 pounds? Can your wife push or pull a roller bag? It could be a kind of a mobility assistance device.

You said "handcarries," plural. What does that mean? Does she plan to take more than one on the plane?

About the walker, I hope you both realize that even the city terrain you will be in will rarely have all smooth flat walking surfaces suitable for a walker. Cobblestones are common, as are stairs. Wheelchair style cut outs are rare, as are handrails. All are challenges that I've faced in Italy and elsewhere in Europe.

I'm not trying to scare you, but I am trying to advise you about what to anticipate. I get around okay, but I am slow. I'd expect y'all will be slower.

One car advantage I will miss if we change to train is that I love to photograph along the way, and I rarely travel point A to B. I meander and investigate things I see along the way.

I'm the same way, but I don't see you having any time to do that with you overly aggressive schedule. You'll barely have enough time to breath, much less take photographs.

It sounds like your wife has significant mobility issues. My mother did also and while she could walk, it was painful and tiring. She took a wheelchair. Using a walker will actually slow things down compared to a wheelchair. For your wife's sake, i hope you rethink this itinerary and scale it back significantly.

Just as another alternative that I didn't see mentioned above - I travelled in Italy a few years ago with someone who had challenges with getting on/off trains and handling luggage. We ended up hiring a private driver between major cities. It is definitely more expensive, but it worked out very well as we had the driver stop in several locations over the day to make it a transfer tour. We did this from Florence to Rome stopping at San Gimignano, Sienna and Orvieto. We also did this from Salerno to Sorrento to see the Amalfi Coast. I have also done this in Austria when I was travelling with a larger family. Each time I have done this, the drivers have been extremely well informed about the areas, have great ideas of where to stop for lunch, photo ops, and suggest what to go see. They pick you up right from your accommodation in one city and dropped right at the door to the next accommodation which also eliminates the challenge of the train and then taxi.

Is the schedule really that aggressive?
Frankfurt airport to Lucerne - 2 nights
Florence 5 nights - day trip Venice
Rome 6 nights
Milan 5 nights - Day trip Como
back to airport through Austria.
Seemed kind of relaxing to me.

Is the schedule really that aggressive?
[snip].
Seemed kind of relaxing to me.

Horses for courses. We took a trip last May. We were there for two weeks and there were two stops - Loches, France and London. That's closer to my definition of relaxing. It gave us time to be more spontaneous and not be on the move every single minute.

Kathy,
I found a few links - I'm looking in to a driver as well just to see.

Brad,

Is your car a rental or lease? Any chance to drop it in Rome then fly back to Frankfurt?
It would change your itinerary slightly.

Frankfurt>Lucerne>Como>Milan>Florence/Tuscany > Rome. Dropping the car at Roma Tiburtina and taxi to lodging in Rome. 15 minutes.

Suggest you stay just outside Florence, maybe around Bango a Ripoli. Taxi into Florence 15 minutes, 30 minute drive to Greve in Chianti and beyond.
Edit. Forgot to add Milan.
Day trip to Venice via train.

Gerri,
The car is rented, and I believe I have the option to rent 1 way, for a fee. I'll have to check it. It's getting a little bit late for me to change too much of the itinerary because the hotels we selected are booking up (we are using points which book out first) and we have tours tied to those dates in some cases. The only real options I probably have left is deciding on the method of travel or even a hybrid version of travel as suggested earlier. Thank you for the suggestion though!

This is all comes in faster than I can thank everyone but know I appreciate all of the feedback!

Lo, I meant to thank you earlier for the links - We have been watching the man in seat 61, but didn't know of the others.

As usual, I recommend that you visit Gemut.com for basic info on car
rental in Europe. They are actually in Oregon, so if you have more
questions you can call and talk to a real human being.

They have a great, free, downloadable brochure called, What You Need
to Know About Renting & Driving a Car in Europe. It covers all the
countries you list and more.

Since most of your time seems to be in Italy, the Man in Seat 61's
section on trains in Italy would be very helpful. There are even
pictures of the trains. With a lot of heavy luggage and a walker,
train travel will also be a challenge, but at least you'll likely
arrive in a central location from which you can get a taxi to your
lodgings.

Yes, it is the boarding of the train the worries us the most. She can
get on board OK by herself, but it is up to me to handle all the
luggage on the platforms and in the station.

Don't worry too much about that. Most railway companies offer all kinds of help for people with disabilites. Including, but not limited to, being able to book special seats close to the entrance to limit the amount of walking needed. Assistance when changing trains. Help boarding and alighting. Eg: DB: https://www.bahn.de/p/view/service/barrierefrei/gehbehindert.shtml?dbkanal_007=L01_S01_D001_KIN0011_-_rs_barrierefrei_NAVIGATION-gehbehindert_LZ01 (In German only, but Google translate should be able to give you an idea on how it works.)

Ha, well this trip kind of exploded for now - Can't buy tickets for the trains because they don't all connect anymore because of the quarantine cities on the route, and Austria cut off all incoming trains from Italy today. Guess I'll wait things out.

We always rent a car to drive through Tuscany. Keep in mind as well, gas is sold by the liter there. Very expensive!

We always rent a car to drive through Tuscany. Keep in mind as well, gas is sold by the liter there. Very expensive!

I think that might be our modified plan - or maybe, depending on the Contravirus. We would rent out of Florence and take take the train otherwise. In the USA we vacation in our 45' diesel motorcoach, so filling a Fiat at the pump would be a welcome economy at any price per Liter :)