Big Picture Planning for Group Trip to Italy

Kyle, I'd have to give this a lot more thought, but your task is to basically plan a trip for a small tour group. A few thoughts and questions..... > You have far too many destinations for a 14-day time frame (or even a 17-day trip), so you'll need to pare this down. > When you arrive at each destination, is everyone going to see the sights as a group or go their separate ways? > You're probably going to have to use larger (possibly more expensive) hotels for a group of that size. In smaller communities you may have to split the group into two hotels. You'll have to reserve rooms as soon as you've got the Itinerary nailed down. > I don't find the C.T. to be "similar" to Sorrento at all. The character is quite different (IMO). > I'm assuming you're planning to use open-jaw flights? Inbound FCO and outbound MXP is one possibility (not sure what flights are available from your area?). > For your stay in Tuscany, I'd probably use Florence as the home base as it's got good choices in larger hotels, lots of good restaurants and good transportation links to places like Siena (or to the C.T. for a day trip, for those that might want to do that). > I'd probably use trains to get around as that would be the simplest for a larger group. If you decided on rental cars, you'd need at least two large vans to accommodate 14 people with luggage. Larger vehicles could be a problem getting around some towns with narrow streets, and there are also the issues of an I.D.P. for each driver and avoiding ZTL areas. > I don't have any information to offer on apartment rentals as I usually travel solo, but I'm sure the others will have lots of good tips. Good luck with your planning!

With a large group like that it seems like renting some apartments and villa might be a good idea. I would break the trip into just two or three sections with 14 days. Having alot of short stops would be hard for a group unless you were to hire a bus and driver for transfers. I always think getting to know a place is better than just breezing by.
Something like Venice/Tuscany/CT or Rome/Amalfi Coast then you could do some day trips to see other parts of the area.

Ken, thanks for the reply. My post was too long so I had to cut out some detail. To answer your questions, in order: That list was meant to be a list of options, not an itinerary. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough. We are looking to probably keep it to three areas in 14 days. That is why I would like some recommendations on which areas to visit and which to cut. We'll probably stay together for the most part, although the older bunch may need some downtime while the younger crowd keeps going. I get that Sorrento and CT are different character, but they are both coastal areas. We'll probably look to do some coastal, some history/art, and Rome. We will look to do open jaw flights. Naples, Florence, and Venice all work with 1 stop in Germany. Probably won't go all the way to Milan. Thanks for the rec on Florence as a base in Tuscany. Seems to be the busiest of all the stops in the area, but probably also most accommodating. Also considering Siena or in the countryside. You nailed my reservations about renting vans. May be more hassle than they're worth. I still have some research to do concerning larger apartment/house rentals, but I should be able to find what I'm looking for. Thanks again, and let me know what you would recommend out of Amalfi/Tuscany/CT/Veneto.

Lisa, thanks for your response as well. I'm definitely going to look into apartments/villas, just need to figure out where we're going first. Could be very reasonable with such a large group. I must not have been clear, but we definitely plan on keeping it to ~3 areas over 14 days. Rome is a must, and the Amalfi Coast is high on the list. Everything else we're considering is further north, but as long as it's not Venice, you're really only talking about a couple hours on a train. What two areas would you suggest in addition to Rome?

Kyle, For determining which places to visit, I'd approach that by having each member of your group list the six places they most want to see, in order of priority. From that you should be able to work out an Itinerary that more-or-less keeps everyone happy. I could certainly suggest an Itinerary, but that may not fit with the desires of your group. As some of your group haven't travelled in Italy before, it might be worthwhile to get everyone together for a few hours and provide a short "tutorial" on the types of things they'll encounter. Some suggested topics: > Using the trains in Italy - buying tickets from Kiosks, the importance of validating, how the reserved trains work, handling luggage, etc. > Dining in Italy - what the "Coperta" is, how the menus are arranged (ie: Antipasti, Primi, Secondi), asking for the check, etc. > Language - it wouldn't help to have a few Phrasebooks at hand for the group, so that everyone will be familiar with the "pleasantries". > Crime - Moneybelts, using public transit (especially in Naples), etc. > Money - ATM and credit card information, notifying home bank that they'll be travelling, etc. As the Amalfi Coast is a priority and Venice is also important, you could (for example) fly inbound to NAP and then go directly to Sorrento via the Curreri Viaggi Bus. That would be a good place to get over jet lag. From there, move north to Rome, then Florence (with side trips to Siena, etc.) and finally Venice. Fly outbound from VCE. That will limit your rail travel to three main trips. It might be worthwhile to hire a Guide, especially in Rome, for a group tour. I'd highly recommend Francesca Caruso. Cheers!

I think if you are truly going with that big of a group, less is more as far as changing your home base. I would suggest a week in Rome and a week in Tuscany. A lot of the other things you are listing can be done as day trips. If you are really set on a third place, I would suggest Verona/Bologna/Venice. I love Sicily too but you either have to fly or take an overnight train which may be challenging with that big of a group. I would avoid Cinque Terre unless you have a very athletic group. Remember that August is hot and sort of a vacation month in Rome (things are closed/open less). June and September can also be uncomfortable. Have you thought about a cruise? A cruise is not my favorite way to see Europe but if you are looking for an easy way to accommodate a lot of people, it might be your answer. It takes a lot of the pressure off you. There are a lot of cruises that leave from Rome and Venice. Then you could just organize a side trip for people that want to arrive early/stay late and see more of the country. It is EXTEMELY nice of you to be willing to plan this trip for your family. But, like everyone else, I also fear you are in for a lot of headaches. It is too big of a group to accommodate everyone. I would just create an itinerary (that YOU want to do and you think is reasonable) and email it out and tell people they can take it or leave it. Or there are companies that will do this for you. Contact one of them. Good luck!

It seems to me that with the size of the group and the length of the trip still to be determined, and the time of travel about 14 months off, there is really little planning to be done at this stage, just talking and thinking. I'd be willing to bet that 5 or 6 people will bail for various reasons and a trip that may be 10 days or it may be 17 days is just an idea, not a plan.

For your group I think Sorrento would be a good place to stop for several nights. There are lots of hotels, many side-trips to take, and the town is mostly level and walkable. Views and shopping are great, too! For a third stop, I think Florence would be good. The town is walkable and there is train/bus service available to a variety of side-trips into Tuscany.

If Rome is a must perhaps start there for 3 or 4 days, then Positano or Sorrento on the Amalfi Coast from there you can do some day trips to Capri, Pompeii, Ravello etc. Then Tuscany where you can visit hill towns, Florence and perhaps a long day trip to Assisi. If your wife is set on Venice perhaps you can do a few days there at the end before flying back. You might want to check with Rome Cabs or Rome in Limo for pricing on transport. Renting cars in Italy can be problematic, there are ZLT zones that you need permits for, if your car is photographed in theses zones or even wrong lanes you can get billed €200 on the credit card you rented the car with several months after you return (google Italy traffic fines). The only area where a car would be handy is Tuscany as the other ones you have mentioned are better without a car.

Kyle, To put it bluntly, unless you are getting a free trip out of this, you are headed toward major headachesville. Half the people will bail out, half will not be happy with your plans( but keep quiet )& the THIRD half will find plenty to complain about every day. Unless you are planning to write a comedic movie script, give this project a LOT of thought!

Kyle,
It's not impossible to plan this trip. I planned an Italian villa trip for 14 (4 couples fifty-somethings/3 couples thirty-somethings.)We rented a large villa in Todi for a week, which gave us options of daytrips into both Umbria and Tuscany, then went to Rome for a few days at the end. I think the secret of our success was having congenial friends and FOUR cars, which gave us plenty of freedom to split up and choose our pace for the day before regrouping for dinner. We were living in Germany and had the luxury of 6+ weeks of vacation time, but when it comes time to put the money on the line, I've found after many trips, that most people will commit to no more than about 10 days. Traveling in a herd does require lots more time, and I think you will have happier campers if you really narrow down your locations so people won't be exhausted from too much packing up! Since this was my first villa rental, I went with ParkerVillas for the extra hand-holding, but on subsequent villas, I rented from owners directly on VRBO, etc. with no problems. (I also vetted my travelers before I even considered doing this!) Good luck.It's not completely easy, but it can be done!

While I'm not so naive as to think this is going to go perfectly and I recognize it's going to be a huge challenge, I'm a little surprised by all the negativity here. (Although I did get a little chuckle out of Bob's three halves story.) All I can say is that we genuinely like eachother's company and I would be very surprised if there were any major riffs. Even though most in the group are fairly experienced travelers, a big reason they are going is because they know I will plan it out and help make it go as smooth as possible. If we encounter any bumps in the road, they'll be forgiving. Anyways, to respond to some specific posts: Ken-Thanks again for all the info. I got a laugh out of "it wouldn't help to have a few Phrasebooks at hand..." I know what you meant. Norma-I disagree, I think we have to decide on our destinations now, especially since most of us are planning to use miles for the flights. We need to be on top of things. Swan-You nailed what seems to be the leading itinerary at this time. Amalfi-Rome-Tuscany, in either order. Lisa-Thanks again. I'm shying away from even considering our own transportation because of the reasons you mentioned. Bob-If it does end up like a "comedic movie script" everyone else will just be laughing along with it. Kristen-You echoed much of what I was thinking. It's good to hear it from someone else. Except the cruise, nobody has any interest in that. Ruth-It's nice to hear you did almost exactly what we're trying to do. So it can be done. Looks like you pulled off the cars though. I definitely see the benefits, but am wondering if the hassles outweigh them.

Let me rephrase the question. Large group or not, where would you go in Italy on a 12-14 day trip and why? I'm trying to build some intel on each possible destination to present to the group so we can all come to a mutual agreement on what to include in our final itinerary. I greatly value the first hand accounts of those on this site.

Kyle, I must have been tired when I posted the comment about the Phrasebooks. Anyway, I'm sure you got the meaning. I'll try to add some Itinerary suggestions tomorrow, when I'm not tired.

Kyle, you have the perfect attitude for the job. Glad to see that you weren't offended by my heartfelt opinions. Have you had a face to face ( or Skype ) meeting with all involved to discuss some possible stops?

I absolutely agree that you need to be planning now in order to get 14 on the same page in terms of timing, transportation, and budget. Some people may need to know how much to save up, for instance. Good luck to you!

Bob - Thanks for the compliment. This trip has been talked about a lot in passing over the last two years, but never really on a detailed level. I am trying to gather some info to present to the group. I don't want to just say where do you want to go? I want to be able to say we can go here, here, or here and this is the pros and cons of each. Christina - Thanks for the well wishes. Most people have been saving up for this (both dollars and miles) for a couple years now. We do need to nail down a rough itinerary so we can book flights at the earliest possible moment.

Kyle: What you're wanting to do gets pretty complicated with so many people. My medical doctor recently went through what you're planning, but they operated out of hotels in Florence. They didn't try to see as much turf as your group wants to visit. The easiest out for you would be to go onto RonInRome.com and shoot him an E-Mail. Ron is now associated with a very high quality travel agency out of Birmingham, AL, and he can oersonally take care of all your travel details.
One look at his website, and you'll see that Ron has Italy figured out.

Ron, thanks for the suggestion. I don't think trying to see three different areas over 14 days is too ambitious. That allows for two travel days and then four days at each stop. While I really appreciate all the help and advice everyone is giving, I'd like to get away from the fact that this is a large group and focus on where YOU would go if you had 14 days in Italy and had never been there before. I'm trying to layout the pros/cons of the places mentioned above (or any others I may have left out) for the group so we can all make a mutual decision.

*Sorry, that should be thank you David for suggesting RoninRome.com.

Kyle, the new pope may submit you as a candidate for sainthood after you pull this off. Best wishes. I really like the suggestion of relocating as little as possible. A minimum of four days in each place, with options for daytrips while there, might be just the ticket.

Kyle... I think the planning for a group of people you like sounds like fun. If it were my friends I would do 3-4 days in Rome (will be hot, crowded, but you said it was a must-see) From there I would do one of the two locations by the water...either Amalfi or CT...If there were fewer people I would spend 5 days or so in Tuscany and do day trips, but logistics will be a challenge. So, I would skip that and go to Venice with day trip to Burano. You can do all the moving about by train. If you get your group down to 9, there are 9 passenger vans that you could rent and spend a week in Tuscany and see the countryside and villages and skip Venice. You have lots of options, but until you get a firm commitment from all involved your plans are likely to change.
Edit... another thought... if you can get your numbers up by a few (15 total) you could have a private tour with some flexibility through GoAhead Tours. That would give you the option to move about a bit more because you would have your own private bus... also, lets you off the hook a bit as the tour company handles lots of the headaches that would otherwise fall to you. Makes travel to big cities much easier to handle. PM me if you want more info on a few things I have done in the past with large groups.

The largest group I've planned for is 7 but quite honestly I enjoyed it. There are just a couple of things I would keep in mind. As others have suggested, it won't be easy to find rooms for a large group in smaller hotels so you may have to pay more than you would like or split up into two or more hotels. I make a spread sheet so everyone knows where we'll be going and in what general order but we're always flexible because we may finish early in one place or want to stay longer in another. With a larger group you'll probably want to be a little more defined in your plans for each day. The other biggie with a group is to have contingency plans for getting separated. You'll be taking trains I assume (just read the last of your post. It just doesn't seem feasible to rent cars and try to stay together. Your wish list is spread out and you'll all be unfamiliar with roads/driving habits/signage.I think you'll be especially glad to use public trans if your doing the Amalfi coast.) and the likelihood that someone will go to the bathroom, etc. and miss the train is a real possibility. Since connections can be hours apart, you may not want to waste a day waiting for another train or for someone to catch up. (I had an older group member get separated for just a few minutes once and her trip was almost ruined. Had we had a plan I don't think she would have gotten so upset.) Think about setting time limits for museums with a predetermined meeting place. Trying to keep a large group together when interests are so different is tough and this will allow everyone a chance to see what they're most interested in. I'm sure you'd probably already thought of these but didn't think a reminder would hurt.

I went through the tours offered on this site to get an idea of some possible itineraries and time budgeting. Albeit these are run by professional tour guides, but it gives some insight as to what is possible and adviseable. Best of Venice, Florence, and Rome - 10 Days 3 days in each city Heart of Italy - 9 Days Rome - 3 days Volterra - 1 day Cinque Terre - 2 days Florence - 3 days My Way Italy - 13 Days Venice - 2 days Lake Como - 2 days Cinque Terre - 2 days Florence - 2 days Assisi - 2 days
Rome - 3 days After looking these over, I'm even more confident 3 areas is perfectly doable in a 12-14 day trip. That would be a minimum 4 days at each stop. We would also plan to base out of one place in each region so as to keep hotel switches to a minimum. Now we just need to figure out which 3 places we'd most like to visit.

I think planning this trip sounds like fun! My suggestion assuming you have 14-days (although I'm not sure this counts the flights in and out as days, so it may be easier to work by figuring out how many nights you have): Fly into Naples and head out to Sorrento via bus: Stay three nights. Train to Rome and stay four nights. Train to Florence and stay three nights (you can explore Florence for a day, and then do day tours the other days). Train to Venice and stay two nights. Fly out of Venice. I highly recommend you try and rent a house/apartment/etc. for all of your stays. If you are willing to consider renting cars, than substitute a villa in Tuscany for Florence as it would be very difficult to get around and explore otherwise.

I agree with Maryam, calculate nights instead of days; traveling can cut into how much time you actually have during the day to see a city. Getting lost can affect that, too (been there, done that, got the t-shirt).

Kyle, just a couple of thoughts. I would keep your locations to no more than two if you end up around the two week mark (including travel days). Remember you will lose a day every time you change location. Also, my one trip to Italy with a larger group than I usually travel with worked out very well. We rented a villa in Chianti and had two cars. That way we could split up each day and do different things (or stay at the villa and lay around the pool.) We had dinner together each night and shared our experiences. It was a wonderful week and I think the secret was we had both togetherness time and do your own thing time.

I haven't read every reply here, so apologies if I'm repeating what someone has said already. I've been coming to N Italy for several years now. We usually rent an apartment in Verona and make that our base to travel easily by train to Venice (2 hours), Padua, Bologna, Milan, Vicenza and Mantua. I think staying in Padua would give you roughly the same range, but Verona is a very old city and is quite lovely in itself. Plus, if you're here, you get the chance to go to the opera at the Arena which is really magical, even if you don't particularly like opera! We rent through VRBO and Tripadvisor. Good luck- I think this will be a memorable trip for you all, and a wonderful thing you're doing for your friends and family!