Beware of Ugly Americans.

Wow. Hard to believe this person has been going to Arezzo for several years. His review is definitely in the minority in terms of rating; thanks for the eyewitness report (I noticed there was no mention of the friendly local trying to be helpful).

Hard to believe he's been to Arezzo for 4 years (and he's also been to 156 cities) and this was the first time he was aware of the coperto. How embarrassing!

What a jerk!!!! He claims to have been to Arezzo four times before, but never heard of the coperto? Thinks it is a scam???

If you look at his reviews, he basically pans everywhere he has been abroad. The only places he likes (5stars) are a deli and an ice cream shop in Lexington Kentucky. I guess that is the quintessential ugly American. He should just stay home.

The guy was an arrogant clueless type and didn't know what he was talking about. I tried to explain to him ( the staff didn't speak much English) the "coperto" is standard practice in Italy and is charged in place of the service charge or gratuity that is prevalent in America and I've never seen restaurants in Italy that include the "contorno" (side dish) with the main dish. Everything is a la carte and charged separately. The menu had the "Coperto and Servizio" (a very reasonable €2.50) in very large characters on top of the menu and the side dish was also properly reported with the price that he was charged. He told me he had never been charged for a coperto before, but I thought that unless he went only to McDonalds' (he looked like the type) that would be impossible. He expected that he should have been warned about it at the entrance because the menu wasn't in English. My entire family was very apologetic to the staff. The poor waiter was mortified and I felt sorry for him. I didn't have lamb (I don't like lamb) so I can't speak for the quality of that particular dish, but what I had would have definitely passed my mother's test, and she's from Arezzo.

Roberto,

That guy needs a good slap up side the head! Two words that come to mind are "arrogance" and "ignorance". I find it hard to believe that's he's never encountered the Coperto in Italy before, and that he wasn't aware of the way Italian meals are priced. Maybe he just wasn't paying attention at the other restaurants he visited? I feel bad for the restaurant staff, as they shouldn't have to put up with this type of rubbish, but I suppose that comes with "dealing with the public".

Unfortunately, that type of behaviour is not exclusive to Americans. I've seen other nationalities (including my fellow Canadians) behaving badly during my travels.

I assume you're in Italy now?

My initial reaction when I hear stories like this is to smile smugly, appearing to have all one's stereotypes confirmed. But as Ken just said, 'ugly travellers' come from everywhere ... just not from the Rick Steves Travel Forum !!!

"First, there was a mysterious "Coperto" (cover) charge. .... If you have a cover charge, you must tell people AT THE DOOR, not in small print at the back/bottom of the menu"
So, he was expecting somebody to be waiting at the door (who was to pay for this extra staff member?), who would somehow know the nationality of every potential customer entering, and explain to them in their own language the differences between the way Italian restaurants work and how they work in that person's country. The menu (with prices) would have been displayed in the window.
Do the restaurants in his home town have somebody at the door who speaks italian, German, French, ... and can explain all the extra charges that will be added to the bill (tax, tips)?

One fussy guy, eh?

I don't believe a single word he writes. Since when is lamb served with the skin on?

Taking a browse through the rest of his reviews, it's pretty clear that this guy is a nightmare traveler with a big ego/attitude problem. I loved this response from another of the unfortunate individuals whom I'm guessing he badly abused:

"I certainly apologize for asking you to leave, but it seemed that you were extremely agitated and I felt at the time it was best not for us to serve you."

A two-year TA member with only 10 reviews and 8 of those scathingly negative? Nope, no credibility there. Regarding your noble attempt to rescue the poor server, Roberto, sometimes I get very tired of the contingent who equate Italy (and some other countries are well) with a den of thieves. Am I the only person who has yet to be 'ripped off' or pickpocketed by anyone at all on our trips abroad?

We can all report him to the TripAdvisor moderators and get the review pulled. Roberto, the fact that you were there will hold a lot of weight with them.

This is what you need to do if you want to report him (which I plan to do):

copy the link and remember his screen name- onefussyguy (or you can go to his home page and use that link).

Next, scroll down to the bottom of the page and click on "help center".

When the popup comes up click help center again.

On the next screen, near the top click "contact us" and then "general support".

from the drop down menu click "forums, private messages and traveler articles"
on the next drop down click "Help using the forums"

In the box provided add the link and the issue with the report.

The fact that he's mistaken about costs and coperto means his review is very misleading. If you look at his posting history for reviews you'll see that he only has 10 reviews that he's written. 6 of them are terrible, 2 are bad and 2 are excellent. I think this guy is a prima donna who wants things his way or he writes a bad review about it. He also has no clue about traveling in Italy.

I'm going to report him now on TA and hopefully get that review removed.

Donna

In September I had an experience with Lamb at The famous Trattoria Mario at Via Rosina 2r, Firenze. It was so dry it chewed like hay and looked like tiny matchsticks. I just told the waiter that I couldn't eat it and he brought me a bowl of pasta.

A few days later I was at Giglio Rosso near SMN and I witnessed an American man abuse a young waittress. After he left she came up to me shaking. She sat down at my table and I literally emptied all the Euro coins I had into her hands. It was my tip and his tip I said. She laughed so hard at my crazy effort to change the situation that it did. She thanked me for my concern and finished serving the lunch crowd.

I am not going to excuse bad behavior, but I will stick up for the behavior of most Americans that I see traveling. I have been coming to Europe for fifty years and spend a good portion of my time living here and have seen 'ugly Americans' only a handful of times and a small handful at that. Most Americans are more interested in the culture they are visiting than comparing it to what they know back home. I can remember only four or five exceptions and they could not be forgotten; however, I also remember many times being almost trampled by the Germans and the Italians pushing their way to the front of the line in their mad dash to be waited on before those in front of them. I have been ignored many times in shops in Italy, even when I speak to them in Italian. (Not the best Italian, but my Italian friends understand it.) I have seen many more drunk and excessively loud English and Australians than I have ever seen drunk and loud Americans in Europe. I refuse to label Americans as ugly because of the few exceptions and I will try to be as nice about the other people who don't do a good job representing their countries. In the meantime, I am generally proud of the way that my countrymen act.

Yes that guy represents an exception. There were other Americans in the restaurants who were very polite and pleased with the restaurant, including a family from Sacramento sitting next to our table and some from SF. It's also true that American travelers don't have the monopoly on ugliness. But the attitude of this guy surely irritated me. Why would he judge a restaurant abroad by the standards of his own country? It would be as if an Italian traveler gave a scathing review of a restaurant in America because they expect a 15% tip. When one travels one has to learn how to deal with the local customs and practices. This guy lost my respect the minute I saw he ordered coke with his meal.

Well, anyone ordering coke with a meal in Europe needs their heads examined. I would put his rudeness down to ignorance; after all, he did order a coke. I think a lot of rudeness is caused by fear of being in a situation over which one has little control. My mother used to say that many people are afraid to travel as they will be going some place where no-one knows them. No excuse for rudeness however and I am glad that you were there and not I.

ordering a coke=rudeness?????
That statement in its self is a bit rude and ugly.
Not everyone drinks alcohol, and the the fact that the restaurants offers it as an option means there is a demand for it.

I think the guy's TA moniker says it all. Anyone who describes themselves as 'one fussy guy' is pretty sure to be a rude narcissistic lout. Probably fancies himself as a restaurant critic par excellence.

We reap what we sow, in travel and in life. His TA review history speaks volumes. Nice of you to try to help him, Roberto. For some people there is no help.

FYI, we are in fantastic Ortisei, which I know you also like. We are finding contorni included with secondi in some restaurants. Rather a more Tyrolean phenomenon than Italian. Of course the entree price is a bit higher to make up for it. :-)

We have run into Americans like this. I remember wandering through the market in Florence separately from my husband and when we connected we simultaneously said 'You'll never believe these @#$ from Tennessee in the market' -- we were living in Tennessee at the time and were embarrassed to be associated with these arrogant clods. (worse yet, we could understand enough Italian to know what was being said about them -- and rightfully so)

I think Americans get confused by the term 'cover charge' which is a poor translation. A cover charge in the US is the fee you pay for a venue with entertainment -- like a ticket for a show almost -- and it is charged on entry. The 'coperto' is not such a cover charge; it pays for the table settings and bread i.e. the table cover. It is of course a long tradition in Italy; they don't have tips but they have coperto (except in Rome where it is outlawed)

I will say that the worst tourists I ever saw were a Saudi and an Englishman with a couple of Germans in the running. I have not yet encountered a rude Canadian (although come to think of it the drunk bellowing 'Where's the fookin poutine?' under my apartment window at 3 am in Paris was probably Canadian.) We have also only met delightful Aussies, but that may just be our good luck.

Polite people fit in and aren't noticed; it is the uglies of any culture that get noticed.

No, it's not just Americans who can be "ugly".

Two weeks ago when we were checking into our hotel in Venice a German man came to the front of the line and demanded the clerk check him and his group in. We were actually standing at the counter being helped by this young woman. My husband looked at the man and said "she's helping us, you need to wait your turn." The man literally stood right next to my husband, at the counter, so close that they were touching. My husband told him he needed to get to the back of the line and get out of his personal space. At that point the man apologized and backed off.

Sometimes I think people just don't think about what they're doing or how they come across to others. I'm sure the guy in the restaurant is just a jerk and is probably like that at home as well. He's probably one of those that has a reputation at restaurants in his neighborhood and no one likes to wait on him because he is so arrogant.

Donna

Ordering a coke = rudeness?? Just curious what beverage someone who has an alcohol intolerance should order to not offend Europeans?

A "rude narcissistic lout" - I love it!!!

How was your meal Roberto?

I don't know why several have their knickers in a knot, thinking Roberto said it was rude of the man in question to order a coke with his dinner. Roberto did NOT say that. What he did say was that he had lost Roberto's respect when he ordered a coke with his dinner. I agree and I'd sooner drink water than a coke with my meal, that is, if wine is out of the question.

A stand up comedian named Ron White has a classic line in one of his routines. "You can't fix stupid"! Amen!!

Roberto never said ordering a Coke at a restaurant in Italy was rude, but I would argue it's a strong indicator of someone who is fairly clueless about dining in Italy. The "never had a coperto" bull just confirms that.

And Roberto certainly isn't saying that all Americans are ugly, just that this guy was the quintessential stereotype of the Ugly American.

This guy was definitely "uno stronzo della prima categoria," to use a phrase from a favorite Italian pop song.

I would argue it's a strong indicator of someone who is fairly
clueless about dining in Italy.

How??? Coke was available on the menu, he ordered it, they served it, he consumed it. Isn't that how restaurants work? To judge others on what they do or don't select on a menu is rude.
If it's okay to wear shorts in Europe (or "whatever" makes you feel comfortable), why can't someone have a coke or any other soft drink with their meal?

I have to take exception with the last comment from Michael regarding that ordering a Coke was a strong indicator of someone who is fairly clueless about dining in Italy. I admire those who accept the role of a designated driver and don't drink any alcohol or are smart enough to to know when and when not to have a drink. Also, some people cannot have alcohol for religious reasons or for medical reasons.

The huge Chef Express Cafeteria on the main floor of Roma Termini has rows and rows of plastic Coke bottles and other soft drinks on shelves of open coolers that look just like ours here.

Only they don't know that these items are supposed to be kept cold. They are too warm to drink. And you can't open them.

So I head to the beer cooler. It has a door on it and the bottles are cold.

What irritated me the most about that guy was his expectation that the restaurant should have had the menu. including the coperto explanation, in English. Of all his arrogant statements, that one takes the cake.

Personally, I would be happy if "Ugly American" disappeared from the lexicon entirely. There's no question this guy was, at the minimum, a total jerk. We have traveled through Europe, Asia, the Caribbean, Central America and North America. There are Ugly Anyones from Everywhere. And for that matter, they are in the distinct minority, at least in my experience.

Roberto, are you sure he wasn't Furbo, or trying? Maybe he thought if he was awkward enough the restaurateur would respect him and give him the food....

It's my recollection that in the book "The Ugly American" the title character was a sympathetic pleasant person who happened to be physically unattractive -- but the phrase caught on to describe behavior

"This guy lost my respect the minute I saw he ordered coke with his meal."

In the National Lampoons European Vacation movie, didn't the French waiter refer to that as "American Champagne"? I could post the video link but it has some "salty language" that probably wouldn't be appropriate for the forum.

Maybe the dolt thought he was ordering a high class beverage. His choice of course.

Yosemite1, Michael didn't make that statement. He was quoting (and disagreeing with) someone else who did make that statement. And I agree with Michael. If something is offered on the menu, who is anyone to judge someone "clueless" if they order something they like? Perhaps it doesn't match what is typical of Italian diners, but it doesn't make them clueless. I don't like lamb, and even if a place is famous for their lamb, I will not order it. I will order something that I like. That doesn't make me clueless about their reputation for lamb, it just means I prefer something else.

EDIT I see now that Michael made the statement, and Michael S quoted it.

......also the notion the only Americans consume coca-cola is way off base. It may have been invented here but it's an international brand sold and consumed in every country in the world.

I once had dinner at a pizzeria in Milan way off the tourist trail in a residential neighborhood. Every single table in the dining room had a one liter bottle of Pepsi (the restaurant didn't do coke)on it, and all the patrons other than myself were locals.

I always enjoy reading Roberto's posts but this one was a downer. Still, I applaud Roberto for trying to help the situation and anybody (local or visitor) out there who tries to help smooth an encounter like this.

I kind of wonder what that tourist looked like (I know it's irrelevant but the idea of a good looking human made ugly by behavior is an example to remember).

Um, Chloe, sorry - here's your 'ugly Canadian' ;-) You should always Go Before You Go.

I'm with Chloe on this Coke thing...and it wasn't even a Coke; it was a Diet Coke. So...here's Mr. Fussy Guy (already some scary foreshadowing) eating his lamb meal, blahblahblah...and as a connoisseur of all things Good Taste and Proper is pairing his Fine Meal with a Diet Coke. Hey, if you want to drink soft drinks with all of you meals, fine, but I'm surprised with OneFussyGuy. I expect someone fussy to be more particular about his food-and-beverage pairings, that's all. But that Diet Coke was the saving grace of his meal...and he even gave them high praise for it AND the ice!

Ya know, if someone wants to rant about coperto, etc., that's OK. We all have to learn these things. But to put yourself out there as OneFussyGuy, all-knowing of all ways Arezzo, now you're just asking for it.

And FWIW, I wouldn't be ordering lamb, or much or anything else, at that time of night...unless the place really looked like it was in the swim of things. Sounds like he got the tired leftovers...BUT a fresh Diet Coke!

janettravels44, "fookin' poutine" - LOL! Good guess ;-)

Donna, if someone gets that close to me, they may get a squeeze where they least expect one. Whatever's closest to my hand...

(I've already mentioned on another post that I may be on this forum, requesting bail money, while on my next European trip...)

Laurel, I'm enjoying your trip in Ortisei!

Roberto, thank you for trying with OneFussyGuy (sigh). I do hope our Sacramento visitors represented us well!

Well to describe the way he looked, since somebody here asked, all I can say is that the the frustrated restaurant owner lost his temper and called him "grasso" (fatso) (or maybe it was 'obeso') before he left. That might explain why he also got upset at the size of the antipasto portion. The portion didn't meet his requirements he is used to in America where portions are often oversized.
Both my wife and I also believe that he pulled that one to get some freebies. He did in fact demand not to pay under the threat of a bad review. Looking at his tripadvisor activity I now wonder if that is a tactic he uses to extort free stuff from all restaurants and hotels he goes to.

Yes there are ugly travelers everywhere. However this particular one was definitely American.
Feel sorry for the restaurants in Italy that cater to various nationalities. Italian practices like coperto or no tap water get some Americans upset, but if they adopted American practices the local customers would also get upset. No Italian guest would accept the practice of expecting a 15% tip or the practice of marking up wine at least 300% ( it's 150% in Italy). They can't win.

Here's ugly from the NY Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/12/world/europe/selfie-vacation-damage-majorca-paris-ibiza-rome.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Ftravel&action=click&contentCollection=travel&region=stream&module=stream_unit&contentPlacement=5&pgtype=sectionfront&_r=0

I think I'll make it a point to visit this restaurant in my upcoming Sept thru Oct trip. Arezzo is a 45 min drive from my apartment. Pretty sure my experience will be very different. solo acqua per favore, grazie

If I am not having red wine with pizza, I think I'd prefer a coke over a beer, and I'm a beer drinker.

Maybe as affective as getting his post pulled would be to write your own review, rating not only your own meal but also what you witnessed from the previous poster.

Kind of off subject, but similar. When I was in Italy with my sister last year, she was very disturbed that the man in the ticket window in Como did not speak English. I didn't bother me, I just wrote down Como-> Milan Malpensa and the number 1. I got my ticket. After, when my sis was going on and on about it, I asked her if the NYC people who man the subway/info desks speak Italian. That shut her up.

Beware of Ugly Americans ?? You mean we can avoid Donald Trump somehow, even here in Australia ?

Oh gosh, having fun reading the responses here.

And I want to travel with Janet and Eileen!

this has been the most entertaining thread today. (thank you Roberto for filling that visual detail in about FussyOne...we split our sides laughing)

The mention of ice in drinks reminded me when I was in Volterra and a table of tourists next to us (english speaking but not american) kept saying "ICE ICE ICE" and pointed at their soda can to the confusion of the waiter. For some reason they seemed to think saying it progressively louder would help him understand. I watched this for a minute: since I was not familiar with their accent, I was trying to understand their pronunciation of "ice". It was starting to sound like another insulting word and I didn't think they were asking for ...a donkey. So I checked the phrase book and whipped out a scrap of paper. Wrote "ghiaccio" on it, drew a cube, and handed it to the nearest lady at the table and they understood immediately.
They erupted in clapping and thank yous. Loud but not meaning to be "ugly".

Roberto -- you're a kind soul trying to help out the restaurant with their clod of an American customer. I salute you.

It's funny but sad that his review turned up, just as you predicted, trashing the place. it seems he does go around terrorizing people and trying to extort through bad reviews. I'm not sure why he spends his money traveling abroad if he finds such disappointing results. would that he would just stay home.

Well it's almost time for the Bastille Day parade fly-over here!! must get to the window!!

wellwhaddayaknow! This thread has reached its 50th birthday....

Happy Birthday!!!

Surely not Pepsi?

http://roma.repubblica.it/cronaca/2015/07/13/foto/piazza_navona_il_tuffo_dei_turisti_americani_nella_fontana_dei_quattro_fiumi-118982712/1/#4
Guess where are they from? From the same country of Mrs Victoria Wyatt, an outraged tourist who took these pics.

It wasn't long ago that I had to deal with that exact fountain being behind wooden hoardings while it was being cleaned and repaired.

So those idiots will hasten the day that it will be hidden away again,

I nearly used foul language .... but I restrained myself

An unbelievable example of insensitive and boorish behaviour! The woman that took the photos should submit them to the "Finger of Shame" segment on Jimmy Kimmel so these morons and cretins can get some exposure there too.

I think over the top reviews may not to be as much feared as bullies like the one referenced here think. A few years ago I was looking for a hotel in Beaune for a couple of nights as we drove towards Paris from Provence. I saw Hotel La Paix recommended by someone here and so looked up the reviews. One was from a cousin of the traveler described here. He arrived late with young children and was highly offended that the owner insisted he quiet down his children who were hooting and running because 'after all they had been in the car all day.' One of the kids managed to break a lamp in the room and he was highly offended that he was required to pay for it because 'that should just be normal wear and tear.' So he gave the place a roasting. That review clinched it for us -- we booked immediately knowing the owner tried to deal with noisy guests. It was a lovely little place within easy walk of the central sights and the room itself was charming. There were of course other good reviews.

When you see a really bad review sometimes it tells you more about the reviewer than the place and you can often see that reading between the lines. In apartments it is people who go on and on about uneven or cracked floor tiles in centuries old buildings, or the horror of having the toilet in a separate tiny room distant from the bathroom etc etc Clueless shows.

I completely agree with Janet. Such a review can provide a very valuable insight -- in a completely opposite direction to what the boorish poster intended!!

I wonder if it's possible to send a copy of this Thread to Il Cafone Grasso (if that's the correct terminology?). It might be an eye-opener for him in terms of how to behave when travelling.