Beautiful Florence is a Memory

I've heard the same thing from many recent visitors to Florence. Glad I had time there years ago.

So sad. We felt that way about Florence in 2015 when we reflected on our 2003 visit.

We experienced the same overwhelming crowds last May in Florence. Crowds were worse than cinque terre, Venice, or lake Como. We are glad we visited but we have no desire to return to Florence.

In 2022, in Oct, things were tolerable. There is no way I would ever visit in high season.

Yep, we spent 4 nights in Florence this last April, our 3rd time, and Jubilee year or not it was very crowded. We stayed in the middle of the shopping district on via Tornabuoni, and it was fun just people-watching out the window. March/April used to be sane. Look, we still enjoyed it, also got out of Dodge for a day with an Accidental Tourist guide, taking us to Chianti to a castle/winery, then to the guide's parents' home up in the hills in Rignano sull' Arno for a light cooking class and lunch. That made the crowds back in Firenze a bit easier to take.

Bottom line is if you want to go to Florence not in January, you're going to have this type of situation. Reserve your restaurants and museums early, don't assume anything.

Hello ladygabbiella, and welcome to the forums,

This is an on-going debate. Are we are ruining places by recommending them and turning tourists onto them so that they "become touristy" and we risk losing the places we fell in love with?

As an example I was lucky enough to visit Cinque Terre in the mid-90s - before the ferry and the cards and the tickets and had the experience people are looking for now and probably can't find. Heck, we showed up in Monterosso in June without reservations. Is it now "ruined" for me? I spent three days in the area and chose not to revisit the towns and "leave that memory where it is" as someone advised.

After I got back from my first, life-altering, trip to Italy I read a bunch of books with people's experiences in Italy and in one a woman returned to find her Italian family roots and stay with them. At one point an uncle goes on and on about how wonderful Rome used to be before they "ruined it" and she suggested maybe she shouldn't go to Rome after all. Paraphrasing:
"You have to go see Rome it's the most amazing place on earth!"
- "But you just said it had been ruined..."
"Oh it's been ruined so many times before it doesn't matter."

Is CT ruined? Yes, but it was ruined by pirates, and war and poverty and now tourism and probably by something else down the road. You can only visit places as they exist now and take them on those terms or choose someplace else. I see it happening right now in towns I really like and I have to remind myself that the building we stayed in is at least a hundred years older than my entire country.

Italy is eternal - we just have this slice of it to enjoy. And the current slice is pretty amazing.

Everyone have great trips,
=Tod

I found Florence to be horribly crowded and noisy in the Fall of 1989. I now stay outside the city and do an occasional day trip for sightseeing and shopping.

Once it was Rick Steves and other travel guide writers sharing "secret" travel spots. Now it is anyone with a phone and an Instagram or TikTok account.

Popular places are popular for a reason and experiencing them often means dealing with crowds.

Hello,

We understand when something comes out in a way that wasn't intended, and it can be a learning experience. Part of travel is learning about different people and cultures, and our place in the world. That can happen during and after your trip.

I've cleaned out what was of concern and the additional commentary. This is also a reminder of Guideline #4 to not post in response to (perceived or real) guideline violations. Posting in response sidetracks the thread and it's easy for the intended discussion to be lost, which was happening here. It's part of how we can all do our best to stay on topic (#1). Thanks to everyone for their attention here.

Now, back to the discussion. Crowds are definitely a thing to contend with in certain parts of Europe at certain times of the year. And, fwiw, it's been a point of focus since before the pandemic to add content across our guidebooks with advice about how to either avoid the crowds or plan ahead to make sure the crowds don't affect your sightseeing.

Agree it is disappointing and frustrating when a destination we love has morphed into something less enjoyable. A storekeeper in Florence told me that the less crowded season is now limited to January through early March. I’m going back in January and hoping for the best.

As world population grows, median world per capita income grows, more and more people will want to visit popular tourist spots. Publicity by "influencers" on the media (whether it is Rick Steves, Stanley Tucci, or less known influencers on Instagram or TikTok) is exacerbating the situation. However I see no reason for giving up on an entire country altogether.

As you get out of places like Florence, Rome, Venice, Cinque Terre, Amalfi Coast, and a few others, you will be able to enjoy a lot of Italian destinations that are just as beautiful (or even more so) but have very manageable crowds, even in high season. There are thousands of such places, not necessarily totally undiscovered, but not at all overcrowded to the point that they are not enjoyable.

Now, I understand that if you have never been to Florence or Venice or Rome, and you go to Italy, you want to visit those at least once. But a lot of 'foot traffic' is also caused by 'returning visitors' who've been to those places multiple times. There is really no reason to return to those places if there are many more to visit that you haven't seen before.

I visit Florence every year because of family and friends, but I don't go downtown Florence anymore, unless I absolutely have to, and just for the time strictly necessary to take care of business I might need to take care of. My friends who live in Florence do the same. They go downtown if their workplace is there, or also to take care of business, but otherwise they avoid the historical city center like the plague. When I ask them to suggest a restaurant they always suggest a place out of town or at least out of the city center. None of them go to restaurants in the city center anymore (they like to drive to restaurants too, and you can't do that in the ZTL).

The historical center of Florence has become like Las Vegas, where the local Las Vegan residents haven't been to the Strip for years and avoid the Strip like the plague.

Roberto, that is really interesting- thanks for sharing. I find that is quite a contrast to London, where we are in central London pretty much every weekend as are most of the people we know here. I suppose it's a much bigger area that can better accommodate crowds. But it makes me a bit sad people from Florence can't enjoy their historic areas!

The issue is ZTL and how old you are.

If you are young and "motorino" (moped) age, you still go downtown. You just hop on your vespa and go to the historical center with friends. Mopeds and Scooters are allowed in the ZTL.

But my friends are older now. They don't care to face the elements riding a vespa anymore, and nobody cares to use public transportation, especially at dinner time when service is less frequent, so now my friends prefer to go to places where they can drive with their cars, i.e. out of town or out of center, where prices are probably more affordable than the tourist gouging city center.

The only Florentines that still enjoy the historical center and go there for entertainment are, for the most part, the younger generations. The 20 something, the "motorino" age.

So if you need advice on which restaurant to go out for dinner in the city center of Florence, ask people under 30. Their parents probably haven't set foot in a restaurant in the historical center since they were that age.

There is another circumstance going on, that services are going to be transferred from center to outskirts. The centre has lost its main local bank, the courthouse, most of the university buildings. Once you take them out, there is no more reason for a lot of residents to go to town center daily. At the same time, a lot of buildings are being repurposed as hotels and residences, so we can expect the crowds to get even worst in the future. As another example, the idea of installing a funicular service within the Boboli area to a building repurposed as a luxury residence was considered a few years ago and ultimately not implemented; but even the fact that the idea was considered is an hint new times have come, fifty years ago nobody would have dared proposing a change to the Boboli area.

The ZTL killed the Florence Star
The ZTL killed the Florence Star

(to be sung to the tune of the 1979 song: "Video killed the radio star" from the Buggles)

When you regulate everything in an urban center as if it were a theme park rather than a living city, sooner or later it will become just like a theme park.

The “problem” can be solved by going to other places - places that aren’t being loved to death. The Earth is a big planet, and it’s filled with so many wonderful, fascinating places, they’re essentially uncountable. Plenty of them are under-appreciated and uncrowded. And, I dare say, every bit as enjoyable as Florence, if you give them a chance. You just need to make the effort to go find them. All the tools and circumstances that have enabled the unpleasant crowds in Florence and elsewhere enable you and me to find “new” gems (at least new to us). Take advantage of these other places while you can, before they’re “discovered” and instajammed!

As I write this, I’m relaxing after a wonderful dinner in (of all places) Valparaiso, Chile, a place that is beyond uncrowded, and (to me) shockingly and delightfully under-appreciated (and in fact, has a reputation as a notorious hell-hole to be avoided, which my first impressions tell me are breathtakingly misguided). We have been wowed and gobsmacked in the first days of our trip - just like we were on our first trips to Europe. To be sure, these places are not THE SAME as Florence or other much-appreciated places. Every place is unique. But discovering them and experiencing their considerable charms is, I think, just as delightful and satisfying as it was when I first discovered and experienced Florence, Venice, Paris, Bangkok, Istanbul, Fes, or a long list of other crowded places.

Unless you have a time machine, don’t waste your grief on how the previous charm of Florence or (insert your favorite place that’s now crowded here) has been lost to over-tourism. Go find new places to appreciate. They’re out there and can be just as satisfying as places you once swooned over. I find this approach much more satisfying than lamenting how jammed Cinque Terre is. It works for me.

Good luck finding your new gems. I promise you, they are out there.

Lots of great points above. I really agree with this: "When you regulate everything in an urban center as if it were a theme park rather than a living city, sooner or later it will become just like a theme park." I hope that never happens here!

One thing I just want to add in terms of visiting very popular places vs new "hidden gems" (or whatever we want to call them), is it depends on people's motivations for travel. For me, one of my main motivations is to see where history happened. If I want to see e.g. where Savonarola did the bonfire of the vanities, then Florence is the only place I can go for that. But if someone just wants to experience some time in a scenic Tuscan town, then I agree there are lots of other options.

That darn Rick Steves ! No one had ever heard of Florence before he wrote about it @%$!

Cat it’s happening already. Increasingly ‘public space’ in London is privately owned and operated and the activities you can engage in within that space are controlled by private companies. An example in London would be Coal Drops Yard. That’s not true public space. You can’t rollerskate there, or beg, or climb on the art works. Contrast with Trafalgar Square, an older public space that you can interact with freely as long as you’re not breaking the law.

Finding undiscovered gems like Valparaiso is fine for those of us (everyone on this chat, I think) who’s already been to Florence, but if I hadn’t been, that is where I would want to go too.

Ah but; the art, no where but Florence can you see art so breathtaking it captures my heart. I sincerely hope everyone decides to give Florence a pass and go elsewhere but I’ll go back, most likely in January or February, but I’ll definitely go back.

Just from the makeup of the two cities, I don't think Rome by any stretch has suffered the same gridlock issues as Florence. Comparing the historic districts--Florence's main area north of the Arno vs. in and around the Vittorio Emmanuelle monument in Rome...yeah, extremely crowded in both probably 10 months out of the year.

But we spent a few days in each this last April, and found it far easier to escape that in Rome--it was just a matter of walking from one neighborhood to another, a 10-15 minute walk, and you'll find sanity, a safety valve from all the people. Much harder to do that in Florence, it seems. That's why our next trip will be 2-3 weeks at an AirBnB in Rome, with maybe a daytrip up to Florence.

"Sounds terrible. I wanted to visit it someday, but now I'm not sure. Maybe it's better to wait."

@johnstevvart - My opinion, only, but it's never better to wait. 2020 taught me that. You go. You figure out your plan ahead of time so you can avoid some of the crowding and you enjoy. You won't have a comparison to how it "used to be".

We were in Florence last October. Was it crowded? Yes, as we expected. Would we go again? Yes, absolutely loved it. No place like it IMHO!

There is really no reason to return to those places if there are many more to visit that you haven't seen before.

Roberto, as one who

• Returned to Florence in 2015 to see sites we had missed in 2003, as well as to re-visit Santa Trinita and Ognissanti,
• Has returned to Paris to revisit the d’Orsay and Notre Dame, as well as smaller gems we had not seen before,
• Returned to Yosemite twice and hiked the Mist Trail each time, and
• still visits new places, such as Sicily, Puglia, Alsace, Burgandy, the Rhineland and the southern US,

I am not sure I totally agree with you. There is certainly ‘been there, done that’ and ‘there are new experiences to enjoy.’ But some old shoes fit so well.

The one thing I suspect we can agree on is to do what sparks joy.

”We will not re-visit Florence and are taking a break from Italy as a result of this 10-day stay which was truly disappointing, to say the very least.”

I have had the chance to travel often, and with my preference to travel short distances by train vs. day-trips, I’ve stayed in 49 cities in Italy (added 6 this year)…..with a few more planned in 2026. There’s no need for you to go back to Florence if you would rather not. If you decide to go back to Italy, browse some guidebooks & then go to cities that aren’t being promoted in the guidebooks. ; )

One note: there are some cities that are very touristy but timing is everything. Alberobello is a great example. Lots of people filling the lanes during the day to see the unique trulli. But, I rented an e-bike and rode out in the countryside while the day-tourists were there. Came back to a manageable amount of people & by evening, it was perfect to relax, stroll the empty lanes for some beautiful photos and sit with the locals in the small piazza.

I feel like I leveled up as a traveler when I started driving. Not only can I go to places trains (and mass tourism) cannot get to, but I can get to places and get out before the crowds arrive.

Florence is a victim of its own success, and it's always been crowded, even when I was growing up there and Rick Steves was just a college student.

It's just that now the City made it very difficult for locals to "live" the city center. They deliberately made it into a theme park. The Zona Traffico Limitato (which is also a Zona Parking Impossibile) may be pleasant for tourists, since they don't have to deal with cars, but made it a hassle for locals to go there for anything, whether it's a restaurant or going to the courthouse or to a store. So locals go to restaurants, stores, offices outside the city center. And many entities moved out of the historical center, like the courthouse, city offices, university campus, large box stores (which aren't even permitted to build in the city center).

Also it is very difficult to live in the city center given todays' lifestyle and amenities we all expect. If you live in the city center you must contend with living without a car, absence of elevators, small rooms, etc. That is fine for a week stay in an AirBnB, but 365 days a year? No thank you. All my friends and family who lived in the city center, moved away (often out in the surrounding municipalities like Bagno a Ripoli or Impruneta, or even beyond, where they all seem to live, and now rent those city apartments to visitors on AirBnB or sold them. Extra cash for them to enjoy on their vacation or their American size SUVs which they couldn't have driven in Florence's city center.

Nevertheless If you have never been to Florence you should go, crowds or not. And if crowds bother you, go between November and March, when it's not that bad at all. I'm just saying that, once you've visited the places in Florence you want to see, there is a huge plethora of wonderful, beautiful places throughout Italy where tourism is not as overwhelming.

My wife and I were in Florence last week......

The city centre has become Disneyland-ish in a certain way.

Still great buildings and painting, but a lot of restaurants are just really bad and really tourist priced, and the city seems to be dominated by sorority types and packed with lots of instagram driven tourists.

worth a day trip from Rome or Milan, but not much more

MHO

I'm heading back to Florence in a few weeks. I love to see the holiday decorations. For whatever reason, I find the crowds more tolerable in cold weather and I'm looking forward to seeing a few sites I haven't seen yet. I was recently given the opportunity to visit Venice in August and as much as I love Venice, I'm not sure I want to experience it with the heat, humidity and crowds, so I'm still mulling that decision.

Our last visit to Italy was in April 2023.
We had been to Florence several times before, but we visited again, and it was indeed mobbed. Even lesser known sights such as Bardini Gardens, had lines. But, we visited the Galileo Museum (wonderful) and the Pitti Palace (which we had never been to) and were glad we did, even though the lines were long. We had planned for Fiesole and Settignano, but didn't have time.
Then on to Siena, which we LOVED! My motivation for travel is to BE THERE, to marvel at the buildings and pay respects to the laborers who built them stone by stone, or the skill of the artists...painters, weavers et al. Mostly, I love to have a conversation in Italian, with an Italian, and those seem the most memorable to me. (I guess I'm trying to connect with my ancestors) I'd forgotten the name of the Bardini Gardens, mentioned above, or other places we've been, but I'll never forget my first conversation while buying a painting in Florence, many years ago, or negotiating a sale for my son in Trastevere, or chatting with a woman in Siena at a cafe, in Buonconvento (a tiny town with wonderful Museo d'Arte Sacre.
I can appreciate the frustration of locals these days. On the other hand, it's fortunate that people from around the world can now travel and appreciate the wonders of Italy. I don't know what the solution is.

Unfortunately that is the trade off in Europe. Either go in the colder months that don’t have holidays or be prepared for crowds. I visited Salzburg Munich and Berlin in March and it was chilly rainy and flowers were just budding. However Salzburg and Germany were far less crowded and locals were definitely friendlier.

The world population is growing.

I have a great affinity with Florence and have visited 13 times over the years.
It’s usually my last stop in Italy and I fly home from there.
I can’t explain why I love it so much.
Yes, the crowds are awful, but we are also part of the crowd.
I actually enjoy sitting out and people-watching them all.
Last year in the first week of October, I took the bus up the hill to Fiesole on a beautiful sunny day…..it was deserted, only a few people walking about, no one in the cathedral.
I’ll be back next year.

Don’t be put off if you have never been there…..it has so much to offer other than the main big sites.

The streets are packed with tourists and walking on a sidewalk is impossible without being crushed or bumped or having to hop back and forth into the road. - ladygabbiella

My wife and I spent 3 nights in Florence last May. It was our first visit.

We enjoyed almost everything about it. Its city center is overrun, though, with fellow tourists in pursuit of romanticized Tuscany and the perfect selfies and velfies - at all costs.

I'm happy we visited the Cradle of the Renaissance for its art and architecture. I doubt we'll ever return.

If only there was another Florence…perhaps a sort of “Florence of the south” that was still relatively uncrowded and not crushed by overtourism… 🙄

David:

There is already “another Florence of the South”, two of them in fact:
Florence, Alabama
Florence, South Carolina.

Both not yet overwhelmed by the selfie crowd.

Traditionally the beginning of tourism in Florence is considered to be the last wills of Anna Maria Luisa de' Medici, aka Elettrice Palatina, the last member of the Medici family, who died in 1743. The last Medici Granduke was his brother Gian Gastone, who died in 1737; the Grandduchy was transferred to the Lorraine family, but already in 1737 the Elettrice draw her will, that separated the state possessions from the Medici private art collection. "Lorraine cannot move from the capital city of the Grandduchy [i.e. Florence] pictures, statues, book collections, jewels and all precious things coming from the estate of the Most Serene Grandduke; they must stay in the city as an ornament, for the utility of the general public, and attract curiosity from foreign people".

For several centuries the most compelling reason to visit Florence was to visit art collections; after all, Medici were filthy rich for several centuries, they had a mania for art, and Florence was the place to be for artists. It is only in recent times that I began reading about people wanting to go to Florence, but not being interested in art. I do not want to sound judgmental, but if you really are not interested in art, I can see little reason to come to Florence. Cooking is better in Parma, for example, and discos are better in Milan. Wine is good all over Italy (IMHO, astounding in Trentino/Alto Adige) and there is no real reason to go to a country winery if you just want to taste wine. So, if you are into arts, there is no substitution to Florence. If you aren't there are a lot of better places with better ambience and less crowds.

And I would add that in Italy, Lecce is often defined as "la Firenze del sud", but I see little reason. Lecce has some pretty decent baroque architecture, but not the seminal buildings like the front of S. Maria Novella or the Brunelleschi Dome, things that moved architecture forward for centuries.
Personally I suspect that food is much better in Lecce, but, again, this is not the thing Florences are made of.

Dresden, Germany, is also nicknamed "the Florence on Elbe river".

Was in Florence early September and the crowds were not too bad and was able to easily buy tickets for the Uffizi (did need to wait in line) ad the galleries were not heaving with people.

Interesting article below (in Italian, but you can use Google translate)
https://www.controradio.it/turismo-firenze-384-presenze-italiani-rispetto-a-pre-covid/

It looks like actual numbers tell a different story compared to people’s perceptions. For Florence and Province only the tourist presence is lower than pre-Covid, unlike Tuscany as a whole. So it looks like visitors are opting for other areas of Tuscany (and indeed Italy) not just Florence.

In any case if you travel to Tuscany outside of April-October, crowds are low, and even April and October are not too bad. See graphic below.
https://ot.toscanapromozione.it/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/Bollettino-Toscana-2023-_annuale.pdf

This all highlights a quantum physics hypothesis: "One of the most bizarre premises of quantum theory, which has long fascinated philosophers and physicists alike, states that by the very act of watching, the observer affects the observed reality." Florence tourism is therefore a quantum problem.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/02/980227055013.htm

Hi,

I had a different experience recently. I was in Florence for five nights last week (November 12 through 19, 2025) and never saw it less "crowded." (I had been there three other times since 1992). We booked all of our museum tix in advance (Ufizzi, Palazzo Vecchio, Medici Chapel, etc) along with making dinner reservations at restaurants. Didn't have to wait in any lines other than a few minutes at wine bars. We walked right up to the ticket counter and got into the Boboli Gardens with zero waiting. Perhaps it was because we traveled midweek (Tuesday to Wednesday) and perhaps because it was off season, but we were pleased with the lack of tourists we encountered.

I had a full day in S. Giminignano in early October and I found it to be very touristy. I came back today for a meeting in late afternoon. On a rainy late November afternoon it was almost empty, but for some Asian tourists. Walking back to the car at 6.15pm, it was completely empty. I managed to shoot photos of the two main piazzas without a single person.

"One of the most bizarre ...that by the very act of watching, the observer affects the observed reality"

Not that bizarre*.

If you're seeing something, it's because light bounced off it. Which "jiggled" it a tiny bit. Without light hitting it you have to do something like that to "watch" it => so you jiggle it. And affect it.

People who use microscopes are in a constant battle to keep from destroying sensitive samples from all the light they need to shine on it to see. And that's way before they get to the Quantum level. (Which is one reason why those two-photon tech(s) are great).

At the scale of quantum, even light "jiggles" can make a large difference.

(It's *how it affects reality that's so bizarre)

"It ain't what it used to be" has been the complaint ever since the first caveman trekked over the hill to see what he could see.

I used to go to Florence every year around this time at Thanksgiving (now, after my parents were gone I prefer warmer destinations). It was never crowded. I was there end of March/early April in 2023, and in spite of being Easter week at the time, it was fine.
Florence has always been crowded from mid April to mid October, and particularly when schools are closed on holidays, so beautiful Florence is still there if you travel there off season. For the peak season, devote more time to other less popular destinations in Italy. There are plenty to choose from and "discover".