ATM FRAUD

Were they ATM cards or Debit cards?

Actually, one of each

There is a very good article on the growing problem of PIN theft here:

www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11731365/ns/technology_and_science-security//

I think the lesson is to make sure your ATM/debit cards have some fraud protection, because - unlike credit cards - banks are NOT required to provide fraud protection for ATM/debit cards.

Federal law regarding ATM or Debit Card Loss or Fraudulent Transfers (EFTA).If you report an ATM or debit card missing before it's used without your permission, the EFTA says the card issuer cannot hold you responsible for any unauthorized transfers. For unauthorized use occuring before you report theft/loss, if you report the loss within two business days after you realize your card is missing, you will not be responsible for more than $50 for unauthorized use. However, if you don't report the loss within two business days after you discover the loss, you could lose up to $500 because of an unauthorized transfer. You also risk unlimited loss if you fail to report an unauthorized transfer within 60 days after your bank statement containing unauthorized use is mailed to you. That means you could lose all the money in your bank account and the unused portion of your line of credit established for overdrafts.
However, for unauthorized transfers involving only your debit card number (not the loss of the card), you are liable only for transfers that occur after 60 days following the mailing of your bank statement containing the unauthorized use and before you report the loss.
Some of the skimmers and cameras are almost impossible to detect--maybe going INSIDE a bank with an indoor ATM would help?

Rick describes in his book what a skimmer looks like and to be aware of them when using atm machines. I think we should all refer back to that chapter and refresh our memories before we travel or even use our atm cards at home.

If your credit card is used fraudulently, your only dispute is whether or not you owe the bank the money. Your liability is only $50. The money in your checking account is intact.

If your debit card is used fraudulently, the money is immediately gone from your checking account. If you don't notice the fraud in 48 hours, you're potentially out $500. Plus, it might take the bank a while to investigate and refund your money. In the meantime, you could be up the creek without a paddle.

It's not just skimmers you have to worry about; apparently most PIN thefts are from retail merchants whose payment processing software gets hacked.

This can happen anywhere and anytime. Last year, I had logged onto my credit union account to balance my checkbook and saw a $500 ATM withdrawal transaction for that very day in California. Since it had been 3 years since the last time we had been in California, I immediately called my credit union. The compromised card was the one that belonged to my husband. The credit union stated that it was a full magnetic strip swipe and that the PIN number had been entered to complete the transaction. What made the whole situation so bizarre is that this is a Visa Logoed Debit card. It can be used with a PIN to withdraw cash or it can be swiped just like a credit card with no PIN number entered. My husband had never used it as an ATM card....only as a credit card......so no merchant's software could have been hacked to gain the PIN number and nowhere on the magnetic strip is the PIN number embedded. As my husband said, HE didn't even know the PIN number and verified that it was still safely put away in the same spot where he had put it upon receiving it. And no, the card was not missing either although we did have to cancel it on the spot. Several weeks after his card was replaced, the credit union sent me a brand new card "as a precaution". I still have to wonder if it was not somebody inside the credit union who was responsible for the fraud.

What if you have a Visa ATM/Check Card? That should be covered by the $50 fraud liability limit shouldn't it?

If it's an ATM card, a thief knowing your PIN could still clean out your checking account. Even if your bank has a $50 liability limit, you'd still be out the cash until you report the theft and your bank replaces the money.

Recently read a news report of an employee at one the Disney World resort hotels who personally installed skimming devices to all the CC readers at two hotels at the complex. Took the banks, CC companies, Disney, and the police six months to figure what why so many guests were having problems with their cards.

I have also heard of clerks taking photos of the front and backs of cards with a cell phone camera.

We always set aside one "ATM debit account" that we only fund for trips. If it did get cleaned out while we were on vacation, we can alwasy revert to our normal account.

Agree with Steve, having one account set aside as a "trip" account with a spare on the side is the way to go. I do this myself.

Camille---in which book is the information about ATM machine skimmers and how to recognize (and avoid) them? I can't find it in my Italy book. Thanks.

In addition to skimming at ATMs, any waiter/waitress with a drug/gambling/money problem is a great source for credit/debit card information.

Not long ago, a device that looked (intentionally) like a pager could be used to scan cards. At the end of a shift, the server sold their collected card information to a contact for use in fraud schemes. The best way to defeat this scam was to always keep your card in sight. I'm not sure if this scam is completely gone now or not.

As with virtually all schemes like these, efforts to counter fraud are always playing catch up to criminal efforts to defraud people.

Maybe the best way to protect yourself is to check your bank account online every day or two and make sure there haven't been any unauthorized transactions.

OK--so looking at the photos on the link Steve posted, it appears that a card skimmer is not inside the slot where you insert your card, so not invisible. Somehow I had the impression that they were inside the slot, although I couldn't picture how that would work. But this website shows them either installed on the outside of the slot (looking like a gas-station type card reader), or attached above, with a camera inside. It seems like one ought to be able to avoid these by exercising caution and inspecting the machine?

Is there any type or location of ATM that is more or less likely to be a problem? Large city versus small towns? I always try to use ATM's that are attached to banks, and use them during banking hours. Is there anything else we should watch out for?

I'm probably being over-cautious, but we usually travel in Switzerland, where ATM scam hasn't been a problem. This trip, in Italy, we will rely heavily on ATM's as we are mostly using cash rather than credit cards. I appreciate any and all advice! (And yes, I will wear a money belt.)

As Tom suggested, if you have access to a computer, checking your bank acct every few days is a good idea. Our withdrawals, however, did not happen until we had been back in the states for 5 days. Maybe changing your pin number, or even canceling the card and getting a new one when you get home would be wise.

@ Lola, whenever possible, use an ATM inside a bank and not a random one on the sidewalk. In Florence, there was a bank that had an ATM inside the entry vestible, but you couldn't enter without swiping a card to get at the machine. A more secure arrangement.

Scott---thanks! I've seen that kind of secure access in Germany, but not in Italy. Do you recall the area where that ATM was located? We will be in Florence early in the trip, so that ATm would be a good option for us.

And yes, we will be checking our bank balance frequently . . but I've heard there can also be issues with "sniffers" at wireless internet "hot spots", so it's kind of a Catch-22.

And yes, we will be checking our bank balance frequently . . but I've heard there can also be issues with "sniffers" at wireless internet "hot spots", so it's kind of a Catch-22.

When you access your online banking system from the web, at no time do you enter your CC number/pin, nor do any of those numbers appear on the screen.

The system my credit union uses, only allows me to check activity, and transfer money between checking and savings. So even in the unlikely event my username and password were intercepted, there's not much damage a hacker could inflict.

@ Lola, in Florence, there is a Banca Toscana directly across the street from the north side of the Baptistry in Piazza Duomo.

Scott---thanks. We'll be in that area on a weekday afternoon (climbing the Duomo and Giotti's Tower, and visiting the Duomo Opera Museum). So we'll check out that ATM. I'm going to have to learn the names of Italian banks---we are so used to Switzerland, and everything is going to be new to us in Italy.

My wife and i spent 3 weeks in Italy this past June and had an amazing trip, however when using atms, we had 4 occasions when we received no cash, no receipt, and yet had our bank account debited for the entire amount of the withdrawal. It looked as if this was going to be resolved on our return home, but we received a letter 3 days ago informing us that we were out $700.00 dollars via two of the transactions, and that there was nothing we could do about it. While touring we met another American couple who had previously experienced Italian banking nightmares who had consequently handled all of their banking needs in Germany prior to entering Italy. Our only recourse while on the trip was to take large cash advances on our credit card within banks that would accomodate that transaction. It was an expensive, disappointing, memory for what was otherwise a great trip.
i had been careful to the point of paranoia with my cash, and was careful to check each machine for the fake tab thieves stick in the tray, so i don't think that was the issue. Also, in retrospect, i never heard the machinery drop the cash down, so i feel this was truly the banks which had somehow wrongly taken our money.

Tim, that is good information but I would encourage you to copy your posting, delete it from this location, and post it under a new heading. Some will look at the dates of the original posting and not bother to scan to the bottom. You will have wasted some valuable information.