A Little help with Train travel in Italy - response

Which train would be the best to use for time and schedules for us?

There is not that much difference between Italo and Tenitalia. Just pick the fastest and least expensive time and route. Italo is usually cheaper and only offers high speed rail service. For example you won't be able to use Italo to go to Siena. For convenience you can search using https://www.thetrainline.com/ which displays the schedules and sells tickets on both Italo and Trenitalia. However https://www.thetrainline.com/ charges a small fee. Nonetheless whatever you do if you want to say money don't use RailEurope.

You might consider the bus to Siena. There is one that stops closer to the old town which is on a hill

agree with Jazz+Travels.

I prefer Italo because it is the little guy and part owned by the owners of Ferrari and I like Formula 1. I like the leather seats too.

Pick the one going when you want to go and for the price you want to pay.

There are no fast trains between Siena and Florence. A lot of people prefer the bus on that route, but I had my car so can't vouch for either.

Also there is no fast train to Sorrento and Pompeii.

To get there from Rome, you would take the high-speed train to Naples (either Italo or Trenitalia depending on what mix of price and schedule works best for you on your date) and then transfer to the local commuter train Circumvesuviana which stops at both Pompeii and Sorrento.

Unless you have already booked your flights, I would consider flipping your schedule. It is far easier to leave from Rome to return to the US than it is from Venice. Fly into Venice and home from Rome. Second get on trenitalia.com just to get feel for the trains schedules. Not all location are connected by high speed trains and sometimes the high speed trains are only marginally faster. High speed trains are not non-stop and you need a better understanding of the train system. Trenitalia is the national railroad system operating nearly all of the trains in Italy from the Regional trains to the high speed (Frecciarossa, Frecciabianca). The exceptions are some private, local trains like the Circumvesuvianna -- Naples to Soreneto only for example. The Italo is a private train company competing with Trenitalia but using Trenitalia's tracks and stations. Italo schedule is limited mostly to fast trains and major cities. So you go with the one that best fits your schedule.

While there is no schedule for May 2020 available (should post sometime in Dec) you can easily check schedule and price by selecting dates in Nov. Very small changes, if any, from one schedule period to another.

Personally think you have too much travel involved in your planning. One night stays give you at best a half a day at that location. Personally I would drop Naples or do Naples as a day trip from Sorrento. The museum in Naples is worth a good half day or more. You need to make some cuts. Florence is more than a half day. While Sienna is interesting I would drop it in favor of an extra day in Florence. I would even consider cutting Venice and returning from Milan.

Arriving at Napoli Centrale you go downstairs to Garibaldi and tickets for the Circumvesuviana train to Pompeii Scavi:

https://www.sorrentoinsider.com/en/naples-to-sorrento-train-schedule

Here are the sites for train tickets:

https://www.trenitalia.com/tcom-en

https://www.italotreno.it/en

Leonardo Express fare for the two of you will be €28; €20 more for a taxi to your hotel.

IMO you need to cut down on these stops. Two nights yield only one full day; on night an afternoon and evening. Changing hotels you will spend a couple of hours in addition to the train trip; in other words, hotel changes figure half a day. A partial day in a huge city like Naples is just not sensible; plus you need another night in Sorrento.

Leaving Sorrento you have 4 nights left. You could spend 3 in Florence, a Siena day trip by bus if desired; last night in Venice.

I agree that you are moving much too fast. I don't see this as an 11-day trip. You appear to have just 10 nights on the ground in Italy, so that's 9 full, non-jetlagged days. You have listed 6 base cities plus side-trips to Pompeii and Herculaneum. That is way too much for a 9-day/10-night trip. Having mere hours in Florence really doesn't get you much of anything, given that it takes time to check in and out of a hotel there. And to go all the way to Venice for just a few hours is a terrible shame. I'd urge you to drop Venice and save it for another trip, but apparently you cannot because you've already bought your plane ticket home from Venice.

At this point, I'd suggest dropping the southern leg to Sorrento, etc. Alternatively, chop Siena and add one night to Florence and one night to Venice. Unfortunately, that second option will still leave you short of time in those cities.

cyndie,

My first impression in reading over your proposed Itinerary is that it's a bit ambitious for the time you have available, and will require some "fine tuning". Does your 11 day time frame include your two flight days? A few thoughts, based on your post (hopefully I'm reading it correctly).....

• D1 - Flight to Italy
• D2 / N1 - Arrive Rome, Leonardo Express to Roma Termini, walk or Taxi to your hotel
• D3 / N2 - Rome, Tour 1
• D4 / N3 - Rome, Tour 2
• D5 / N1 - High speed train to Napoli Centrale, Circumvesuviana to Pompeii; store luggage and tour site; continue to Sorrento
• D6 / N2 - Sorrento - 8 hour boat tour.
• D7 / N1 - Not sure how you're going to travel from Sorrento to Ercolano (is there luggage storage available?), fit in a visit there, take the train to Naples and still have time to see much in Naples?
• D8 / N1 - Train from Napoli Centrale to Firenze SMN. Between checking in & out of hotels, travel to & from stations, etc., you travel day is probably going to be at least five hours, so that's not going to allow much time to "visit sites there", especially as reservations will be required for some and there will be queues at many in May.
• D9 / N1 - Fast trains to Siena will be few and far between. As the others have mentioned, it would be better to use the Corse Rapide bus from Florence to Siena as it drops passengers in Piazza Gramschi which is in the centre of town, rather than the rail station which is at the bottom of the hill.
• D10 / N2 - All day wine country tour and sites.
• D11 / N1 - Train or bus to Florence and then high speed to Venice. You probably won't arrive until mid-afternoon so won't have much time for "Gondola and sites".
• D12 / - Flight home to U.S.

Hopefully I haven't misinterpreted your plans. I few other points to note.....

• As you may have noted in the RS Italy book, locally purchased tickets for Regionale trains, buses, metro, etc. MUST be validated prior to use, or you'll risk hefty fines which are usually collected on the spot.
• Tickets for express trains (Freccia, Intercity) come with compulsory seat reservations and you MUST board only the train shown on the ticket, or again hefty fines. Tickets for the express trains do not have to be validated.
• May is getting into the thick of spring shoulder season so Italy is likely going to be very busy and crowded. Your touring likely won't move as quickly as you might have anticipated.

Hopefully you haven't made any hotel reservations yet, as I think a few "adjustments" might be necessary.

Good luck!

Looking at your schedule, my impression is that you see 'high speed trains' as equivalent to the Transporter beaming system on NCC 1701 ( i.e. Starship Enterprise).

To me it looks like you are training for an Olympic event like a decathlon, or an audition for The Amazing Race ?

I see you indicate it may be your only trip to Italy, but I fear your lasting memory will be of exhaustion.

If you can, plan more days or fewer destinations.

Happy travels

I agree that you are moving much too fast. I don't see this as an
11-day trip. You appear to have just 10 nights on the ground in Italy,
so that's 9 full, non-jetlagged days. You have listed 6 base cities
plus side-trips to Pompeii and Herculaneum. That is way too much for a
9-day/10-night trip.

Cyndie, I'm throwing my hat in this same ring: it's too much. I'm especially concerned given this bit of info from one of your previous posts:

We do not want hostel as we are elderly ladies.... ...we will have 1
suitcase each which we don't want to have to pull 30 minutes or so to
the train station

The itinerary you've provided would be exhausting for most of us here, and many of us are not what we'd call "elderly"! Additionally from a different thread:

Our budget is limited so can't afford anything over $150 USD per
night.

Budget appeared to be of some concern in some other posts, such as transport from the airport in Rome. With so many moves over such a short time, it feels like you're substituting the actual experience of being in those places for getting to/from stations and sitting on a lot of transport. And you'll barely get your bearings in one day before it's time to move on. IMHO, the "sights" in Florence can barely be touched in 1/2 a day so I think I'd cut that one, and you've precious little time to do much at all in Venice. Fewer moves = time and $ that can be spent sightseeing instead of transport. It might equate to a little more to spend on accommodations as well.

Additionally, you'd have to work your schedule to make sure that the one single day you had in city _ is not the one that the attractions you're wanting to see to see are closed. An all-day rain on the one day you have to sightsee the Amalfi Coast or Pompei? Could happen. Anyway, with just 10 nights/ 9 FULL sightseeing days, I wouldn't do more than 3 locations, such as:

3 nights Venice; 3 nights Florence; 4 nights Rome
2 nights Venice; 4 nights Florence (day trip to Siena and all-day wine/country tour); 4 nights Rome
3 nights Sorrento; 3 nights Florence; 4 nights Rome
2 nights Venice; 4 nights Sorrento (day trip to Pompeii + Naples/Herculaneum + coastal tour); 4 nights Rome.

At most, you could maybe squeak 4 locations without feeling you're spending most of your days at a dead run. One example:

2 nights Venice; 2 nights Florence; 3 nights Amalfi Coast; 3 nights Rome

I hate to rain on your parade, but you are moving around too much and too fast, IMO.

Trenitalia is an easy site to use to see whether a high speed train or regional train is available and how much time the travel takes. Check it out for days of the week you want to travel to get an idea.Unless you plan to arrive in a city and race to a site and see it for 15 minutes, you are not going.

If you have not yet booked your flights, flying into Venice and out of Rome does give you more options. You could even fly into Milan and take the train to Venice.

There is much to see in Venice. Everyone goes to Piazza San Marco but there is so much more to Venice than that. It takes a little time to navigate around by foot. There are also many interesting islands around Venice. My advice is 2 full days minimum in Venice.

One day in Florence is no where near enough time. If you plan to go to more than 2 museums you need more time. There are so many piazzas, statues, churches, museums, bridges, gelato. My first time in Florence was 4 full days and I couldn't get everything done on my list. I'm going back in the spring and will give myself at least 4 more days to take as much in as I can and repeat a couple sites. To get a feel for Florence I would spend at least 3 full days there.

Siena does not warrant 2 nights. I would stay in Florence an additional night and take the bus from Florence to Siena for the day. You can take the early bus. It is about 1 hour to Siena and the bus drops and picks you up close to the main tourist area. You could easily visit the cathedral, another church, the campo and probably visit a contrada area in a full day.

Rome is a big city. I'm sure your tours will focus on a specific area, for example St. Peters/Vatican, Coliseum and surrounding area. In 5 days I haven't covered the city.

So this is a "northern" suggestion. Heck you could even take the train to Bologna (great university town, amazing churches and food for a day or stop at a hill town like Orvieto for a slower day and discover all a hill town has to offer.

I have not made it to southern Italy yet. That could be a trip on its own with Pompeii, Sorrento, Positano, and Naples.

Instead of trying to do everything in one trip, slow down and really enjoy the cities you are visiting. If you are reading Rick Steves slow down and become part of the culture instead of racing through it. Things move slow in Italy because they live 'la dolce vita'. Remember there are lines to get into museums, especially if you don't book ahead, which will eat into your time. Use Google maps to create a route to the various sites you want to see so you can see how much time it takes to get from site to site so you can make better use of your time.
I suggest you decide if you want to see Rome and north this trip or Rome and south. At the pace you state, you are not going to have time to enjoy and experience the sites and food. If your plan is to create a checklist of sites to check off because you saw it from the street, you may succeed with your itinerary, but are you giving yourself time to breathe and enjoy what you are seeing?

While there is no schedule for May 2020 available

Frank, Trenitalia has already published the May 2020 schedule of high speed trains, it's the prices that will be uploaded on December 14 (together with the local trains schedule).

The high speed line goes from Salerno to Milano via Naples, Roma, Firenze and Bologna. There is no high speed service to Pompeii and Siena. Bullet trains from Southern Italy call at Venice, but from Bologna on they slow down and share the old tracks with local and long distance trains.