My friend’s son is going to Italy on a school trip. The school takes this trip every year. The cost includes airfare, hotel, transportation, 3 meals a day, & entrance fees. So basically everything except souvenirs. The kids will sleep 2 to a room. They will be going to Florence, Rome, and Venice. And they’ll be traveling in March.
When I run the numbers $8000 seems like a lot for 10 days. Does anyone have more insight. Is $8000 per person reasonable?
I'm going to go out on a limb and assume this is a private school. My husband and I have been to Italy seven times, 10 days each, always in late May--renting apartments mostly, eating out every night and drinking a lot--and we don't spend that much! And yes I am including airfare.
Definitely seems high.
Probably have a really good student to adult ratio though on the plus side.
Basically the parents are in this case paying for the adult teacher / chaperones to go for free plus fitting the likely very costly insurance bill that is required.
Very likely given a large group size a travel agent is used to make all of the plans which also increases costs.
Which all actually does make sense cannot exactly charge the teachers to go and you need multiple adults or parents would be very worried. On these type of trips underage drinking is a major issue among the many other issues.
Given that it should cost double to send a child on a school trip compared to what you would pay as an adult on your own trip.
Are they getting some kind of academic credit for the program?
Here's a link to Rick's comparable tour. Airfare is not included in his price and not nearly as many meals - so add in maybe $30/day for food.
https://www.ricksteves.com/tours/italy/venice-florence-rome
Of course you'd have to add $ in for paying for the chaperones fares.
Does anyone have more insight. Is $8000 per person reasonable?
I looked at some of your earlier posts. It's not like you haven't traveled in Europe and should have some idea of what would be reasonable, therefore I'm confused about the purpose of this post.
I don't think you're paying for your friend's son to take the trip. It seems it is already booked, so I don't see you telling your friend "don't do it". I can't see this as a warning to us here at RS because it is highly doubtful anyone here will be booking it for their child, especially since we don't know what school, etc. What purpose does sharing this at RS serve?
[Edit] OK, I'll play.
My wife is the Director of the School of Nursing at a university. Every year she takes a group of students on a medical mission trip. They normally go either to Honduras or Tanzania for two weeks. All in cost for the Tanzania trip is less than $4,000 for the student and it counts as one of their courses. Then Honduras trip is even less, somewhere between $2,000 and $2,500. I'm sure accommodations aren't quite as posh as in Italy.
We did a scouting trip for a Studies Abroad program in London and Paris. We were gone 10 days and spent less than $4,000 for the two of us. When we went to Tuscany on a 10 day trip, we spent around $3,500, but we had Skymiles to help with airfare.
Is this a college or a high school? As a point of comparison, the University of Georgia offers a 7 week program in Cortona in the summer. It includes breakfast and dinner 5 nights a week. Students share a room and you get 12 hours college credit. There are field trips to Naples, Rome, Sieana, Arezzo, Florence and Venice. The cost for 7 weeks, excluding airfare, is $7,000.
Yes, it sounds expensive, but I doubt that anyone can renegotiate the price with the school, so sorry, but I don’t see the point of the post.
School trips with minors are very, very different than just going with your parents. Obviously it is high and if you and I were doing it but probably reasonable for that type of trip. When our sons were in public high school 20 years ago they each did an European trip, one with the high school band, and they were relatively expensive but it involved a lot of logistics. One paid chaperon per ten students, etc., etc. etc. Without the details of the trip, the $8000 is probably in the correct ballpark. You could do it cheaper and, please, I doubt if the school is doing this as a profit center. And I agree, why the question? It is what it is.
What kind of "school" does this kid attend - Exeter? St. Albans? Georgetown Prep? Maybe they're already used to "the finer things in life." perhaps they're flying in Business Class...for $8K, I hope those kids aren't stuck back in Basic Economy in a non-reclining middle seat next to the bathroom (then again, maybe the nation's elite future supreme court justices are exactly who should get those seats...).
The school trip is a done deal. My friends and I know that. These are the friends that actually accompanied us to Italy last time. They were over for dinner and we were taking about the trip. We all agreed the price seemed particularly high. They asked me point blank what I thought since I’m always browsing cost effective ways to take my family to Europe. I have my thoughts as to the high cost but I’ve only planned travel for my family. I told them I would post the question on the Rick Steve’s forum as they know I frequent this site.
Interestingly, some of the responses on this forum are some of the same thoughts we tossed around at dinner. And yet others say sounds about right. Next time we get together I’ll tell them what other people thought. Why? Because we were curious.
Come on DougMac, Jennifer, and Frank. Are you actually suggesting that a post on this forum has to have a point!
Seems a bit high to me as we did a similar trip 2 years ago and spent approx 12k for 4 of us (2 adults, 2 kids)...10 days.
Come on DougMac & Jennifer. Are you actually suggesting that a post on this forum has to have a point!
Touche!
Here's another tidbit to share with your friends. When I was in high school, my best friend's mother, who was a science teacher, agreed to chaperone 8 students (4 girls, 4 boys) on a People to People trip to Europe. It was 21 hectic days through Belgium, Germany, Switzerland, Italy, Monaco, France and London. The cost including airfare was $670, which in today's money is ~$5,000.
50 years later, 3 of the 8 went back for part of the trip. The party included my friend and his wife, a cute little girl I fell in love with on the original trip and me.
For $8,000 I hope they have first class accommodations!
Let me guess... EF Tours.
Incredibly overpriced IMHO.... but the teachers get "free" trip LOL! (That's part of your 8K)
And of course the tour companies are making LOTS and LOTS of money.
I have priced out the same trips and know I could do them for less. When I finally quit my fulltime job I am going to start doing this for scared Girl Scout leaders :)
As for "security" I did one of these tours once, don't assume the company is doing much IMHO.
Check to see which company the school is using and check its website. For some companies, teachers and chaperones are free, but it’s really the students who are paying or subsidizing them. To me, that prices seems very high.
Postings do NOT have to have a point.
Simply put, no it is not reasonable.
Seems high even though they have to pay their share of the chaperone's costs. On a teacher's salary, I hope no one expects them to pay their own way considering the responsibility they have for the students. Considering that, I would think $6000/each, based on RS tours being about $3000 and airfare could be $2000 if from a noncompetitve gateway. If 1 chaperone per 10 students, that adds $500. College trips wouldn't need to cover many chaperones if restricted to students who are legally adults and responsible for themselves.
Our daughter's (yes private) school planned a trip to Paris and there was no way we would have sent her on it-two or even all three of us could have traveled on that amount because we have frequent flier miles and hotel points.
.... Simply put, no it is not reasonable........ Based on what ????? Opinion ???? Without the details, it just speculation on anyone part. Of course, chaperons are paid and probably not enough. Who wants to be responsible for tracking ten high school kids??
It's a bit high, but IMO, not unreasonably so, considering these are school kids. My daughter teaches at a private school that takes a group of high schoolers on a 2 week trip over spring break every year. Each year to a different country. Last year it was Kenya. The year before that India. That price includes everything except souvenirs for the kids and includes the chaperone's costs (and there is a higher chaperone/student ratio than there would be for a regular tour; in Europe it's 8:1. In Kenya it was lower), plus the insurance, which is also higher than one would normally pay for yourself independently because of the liability portion that the school has to cover. In her case it also covers visa arrangements and the travel medicine clinic costs (which wouldn't be required for a trip to Italy. And yes, for liability and logistical reasons, they book through an agency that specializes in these groups.
Of course you could do the same trip more cheaply on your own. You might even find a "regular" tour company who would be willing to accept a bunch of school kids at a lower price. But most schools don't have those options due to liability concerns.
It would be high for an adult. However kids and teens need chaperones and teachers. Teachers are paid, obviously. Chaperones often get their costs deeply reduced. So the kids fees are subsidizing that, but it’s necessary because the kids need supervision and education.
So if the adult to kid ratio is good then I’d find it reasonable. Weather I’d send my kid is another question. Maybe not, I can take him to Italy and provide a cheaper and more specific experience, but not all families have the travel experience to do this. Plus kids like to go with their peers.
College trips and study abroad opportunities are often cheaper because college students are adults so don’t need the same amount of chaperoning.
CJean makes a good point. Some years ago my sister-in-law took a group of girl scouts to Europe, and she said the liability insurance was killer. Also, they had strict rules about what kind of hotels they could stay in - rooms had to have private bathrooms, for example, so the girls didn't have to go down the hall to shower or toilet.
And all the sightseeing was included, as well. I don't remember what the girls had to pay, but they held fund raisers for several years to help those girls whose families couldn't afford the fees.
Since Rick does a 10-day Venice-Florence-Rome trip check their price. It is $2700 + Air in March. Not all meals are covered in that price, but it does have a guide and driver in that price who don't need air. Including all meals and the free tag-along chaperones, $5000 seems reasonable. The extra $3000 is going to the school and the tour operator, who could be the dean's brother-in-law. :-)
Laughing about this. The incredible responsibility undertaken by the teacher(s) in charge of this is huge. Most of the time, they are not getting paid for their time. Yet, posters on this forum are complaining that their travel costs are paid? Crazy.
A fellow teacher asked me if I wanted to join such a tour to Peru this summer with her and some students. Much as I would love to see Peru, I passed. A trip taking care of the same teenagers I work with all year just wouldn't count as a vacation to me!
I have some reservations about ETF tours from coming in contact with some tours in Europe where things were going incredibly wrong for the students and no one seemed to be able to fix serious safety issues.
Of course the teachers' (plural) expenses should be covered since they are escorting the students. Counting noses and keeping kids out of trouble is A LOT of responsibility (says someone that is not even a parent). I just could not imagine herding cats like that. Those teachers/escorts will be working...just in a much less controlled location.
It is also impossible for any one of us to evaluate the price, since we do not know the specific itinerary. Daily activities vary within an itinerary. For instance, are 50 or 100 kids doing a drive-by tour of the highlights, or will they be escorted in a smaller group by local PhD experts providing extra insight that the typical tourist might not receive? Will they be visiting The Vatican Museum in a private after-hours tour (avoiding the crush of the crowds)? Will they get a small group instruction on glass blowing in Venice, a visit to agricultural location with a cheese-making, olive oil pressing or something like that? Will they visit a private residence (maybe of a high-ranking public official or university head) or a typical home to see how local people live? Private audience with the Pope (okay....I'm stretching it on that one)? But, you get the idea.
There are different experiences.
We were on a ship expedition (National Geographic Iceland/Greenland)with the previous (and only) Female Prime Minister of Greenland.....we had lots of one-on-one time with her, even riding in a Zodiac. It was fabulous. In Italy, on a group tour, we were afternoon guests at the home of a professor who talked about contemporary living in Italy, followed by wine and nibbles on her private villa terrace that overlooked the sea. Shared dinners with Dr. Ken Taylor who since has been interviewed on CBS This Morning several times re: ice drilling/melting in Antarctica and then sat next to top National Geographic photographers, while we listened to whale researchers tell us that the hump back whales (literally 6 feet away from our zodiac) were getting ready to do( and they were right). Could we have experienced those locales less expensively? YES, but we will have the special memories of rare connections/access for life. So, it is not always about the cost. We are extremely frugal (seriously), and we make spending decisions very carefully, but we also believe in making the most out of our rare travel experiences. We have friends who blow more on boats, golf, bowl games for their favorite teams, vacation homes...no judgment from us....just different priorities.
The parents of the child can likely afford the trip, and if the child comes back with a truly enhanced knowledge and perspective of Italy and its (and his) place in history that will be remembered and carries with him for life, then it is money well spent. Sure beats a lot more ways they could blow $8000 on the kid!
P.S. To the previous post: If the class trip is also sort of a fundraiser for the school, then that is also understandable....especially if it is a high-end private school. From what I hear from friends, the tuition to private school is JUST the beginning of expenses :)
For `Kaeleku:
Not sure why you think Birmingham would not have high-end private schools? Just for giggles and grins, I did a quick Google search and then clicked on the Tuition tab of the first one that came up. The Altamont School shows annual high school tuition of $22,200. Seems like an investment in a young person, for sure. But, compared to the annual tuition at Nashville's Montgomery Bell Academy (a blue-blood boys' school) of $27,250, I guess it seems like a bargain :) I would guess, some of the large cities and New England markets have even higher tuitions.
Kaeleku, yes it should be way cheaper in March. I was assuming the high season after school is out for the summer. And you would be surprised at the trips taken by students in our part of BHM. One of my students went on a National Geographic tour to the Galapagos and I'm sure that wasn't cheap. The Birmingham suburbs have more people with high incomes than you would expect. There seem to be plenty of people able and willing to pay $2500/semester sorority dues (that includes meals but not housing). So it's a matter of priorities.
For $8000 maybe in lieu of chaperones each student gets an “escort” (the type of escorts Berlusconi uses in his field trips).
Absolutely RIDICULOUS! We take a group of high schoolers every year in early June all over western Europe for 2.5 weeks - everything included is $4400.
At the public school where I teach, the Italian club takes a trip to Italy every Easter break. The students fund-raise and last year, the cost was under $3000 for 7 days.
My daughter is taking the same school trip in June, same length, same inclusions, same cities, and her price is $3900. Sounds like someone is earning some lavish travel commissions or they will be staying at 5 star hotels and dining quite well . . .
Hi, Maggie: Long time no hear. Please, what is a Zodiac? Googling didn't help. Thank you
A Zodiac is an inflatable speed boat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD-xX3Dq5Vk
Since posting does not have to have a point, but because I want to stay on topic...
I hope for that cost, they're flying business class and have unlimited room service in their top of the line hotels.
Not knowing exactly what the tour includes it is difficult, if not impossible, to offer cogent commentary on the cost.
Did you friend not ask for a detailed breakdown of the tour cost, before, signing up?
Many years ago my daughter's (public) high school was doing a trip to France. It was no where near the equivalent of the price of the trip the OP is asking about but it was still high enough that I said "we could both go for that price" to which she said she'd rather go with me. So we did - first trip to Europe for both of us and the start of a great love affair with travel, especially to Europe. My daughter subsequently did two studies abroad in college (one France, one England) , went to grad school in England, and worked for a year in France after graduation teaching English. I'm currently planning my 32nd European trip for next summer. I know the OP was asking out of curiosity but anyone finding themselves in a similar situation should consider taking the student themselves - it could be great for both of you.
Off-topic but not really...
...I have found it extremely satisfying & liberating to find out that traveling smartly in Europe doesn't have to break the bank. First trip nine years ago, OK--I spent more than I should have because I was ignorant. Second trip, better. This most recent trip a year ago February, I'm on my way to nirvana. Did the Kayak/Google air price stalking thing months in advance, saved about a thousand there, although I gave some of that back upgrading to business for comfort.
Stayed for a week at a small but efficient Roman apartment for 80 Euro/night that I could have holed up for a month, no problem. Market-shopped for breakfasts in our hovel--having a little fridge is key--and most local restaurants are comparable with eating out here in the US, in many cases cheaper. Attractions in Rome are surprisingly inexpensive to view, sometimes free. And that weekly 24 Euro bus/Metro pass was our ticket to go anywhere in the city.
We really enjoyed the challenge of being economical because in the back of our minds we want to do it for a couple months at some point. And $8000 for 10 days--no matter how nice--is way out of whack no matter how you slice it.
Sam, thank you. Isabel, great story!
The parents of this child should spend the $8000.00 and take a nice European vacation for 3
Easily done within the same budget and would get valuable family time and memories.
That is what I would do if my child's school was purposing something similar, very much as Isabel stated her experience above (lovely story BTW)
Our older daughter spent a semester in Rome for roughly the same cost as her regular semester at a private liberal arts college. It was a life-changing experience for her, and very cost effective considering that we would have spent the money anyway. We visited her while she was in Rome, and became hooked on European travel.
When my son was in high school he did a trip to England with the AP English class and in the previous year he did a 2 week trip with the French teachers. The French class included 5 nights with a French family with a son his age. I don't remember what the exact cost was, but the setup sounded reasonable to us and a great experience. He loved both trips and they weren't extravagant.
The one thing I think of now, that I don't remember about either trip was if extra trip insurance was included. Health and or emergency evacuation. Check to see if those are included, because if they are that could be a significant part of the cost.
Although, I suspect that a travel agent is a big part of the cost. If the parents can afford it, and want to, it could be a great experience for the child. So could a trip to Europe with the parents. Their choice, no wrong choice.
When my daughter entered high school we went to a presentation on the AFS exchange program -- most students from her school who did this program did a summer (4-6 weeks.) But it turned out that a semester was only slightly more expensive than the summer -- and an academic year only a little more than a semester. Administrative costs, travel costs, comprehensive insurance -- all these things are there no matter how long or short the trip.
EDIT -- she took the academic-year option as a gap year between high school and college.
Our oldest grandson is spending his first semester in college in Paris right now. He is doing well and having a blast. He is taking Intermediate French, European economics, French history and French architecture. The architecture class is taught by traveling Paris and environs to view the subjects of the class.
He spent Fall break traveling to Greece, Rome and Venice with a group of friends.
Tuition, room and board and airfare is twice the 10 day trip that is the subject of the post.
I paid for a Spring break trip to Europe during high school for both of my kids. Two of us, at least, could have gone to Europe for that duration for the same amount of money. Generally the chaperone to student ratio seemed to be about 1:5. The teacher in charge of the trip explained that due to the logistics of traveling with a group of ~25 people that they stayed in prime location hotels (3 star). They chartered exclusive buses a couple of times, although did use public transport a lot of the time. Besides the school's teachers, they also had a European-based guide all day for many days. Based on times when I've volunteered for school field trips here at home, I did start to have some empathy for 10 days on the road with a large group of students, and perhaps the attraction of streamlining group travel. One of the kids became ill and had to go home early, and one of the chaperones went back with them, which makes you realize why a higher adult ratio on the trip is desirable. I know trip insurance was baked into the cost. They also needed a large number of adults to stem sneaking out at night, sleeping together, under age drinking and drug use, and other trip rule breaking.
Although I'm a fan of European public transportation, I would not want to attempt it with high school students. That is the stuff of nightmares!
