5 or 6 weeks in Florence ? Overkill?

Hello Denny,

I'm not sure anyone can answer your question except you. If you have multi-week stays in a single city then my impression is "Sounds great - go for it!" If you could do 4 weeks in Venice then I don't see why you couldn't do a week or so more in Florence. Even if you get bored of Florence it is central to about everything - small towns and big cities all within easy access. You could revisit Venice in a couple of hours and see Siena for a quieter setting. If you are there before Christmas be sure to see Arezzo all dressed up for the holidays.

Full disclosure I'm looking to stay in a single city for 4 weeks to try our living the Italian lifestyle and then travel for another 4 to other places I haven't seen yet. So I may not be the most unbiased of commenters.

Not to be a bummer but I do think I need to confirm you know about the time limits coming from American - 90 days out of any rolling 180. I sounds like you might be coming after your previous 3 weeks in Venice are starting to roll off the clock but if not another 6 could really start to add up.

Sounds amazing - enjoy your time,
=Tod

I've done what you're proposing. (Not in Florence.)

The only thing for me was having a kitchen. I didn't want to have to eat out every day for most meals. Even if I didn't want to cook, not having to sit in a restaurant for most meals was an advantage. I could hit markets and bring back prepared foods.

I'm sort of doing that right now. I'm at an aparthotel that I frequent. This is a short trip, only 9 days, but I've stayed here in the past for longer. I've stayed at other hotels for up to 6 weeks.

Traveling in the off season is also beneficial as most hotel staffs and those working in hospitality are not as stressed as if they might be during the height of tourist season.

@EC Yes, he is fine but I don't know what other time he may have spent in the Schengen region during this time. If he spent 30 days total he has another 60 to "spend" in any 180 day window. Assuming he comes back after 6 months he'll have a whole 90 to spend again. With only the mention of "winter" I don't know the timing - after October should be all clear again but I wanted to be sure he was aware of the restrictions and potential issues with multiple long stays.

Not to be a bummer but I do think I need to confirm you know about the time limits coming from American - 90 days out of any rolling 180.

Thank you, hired man for mentioning this!

This is something I had never heard of or read of before. I hesitated about posting the above topic, but now I am concerned.

March 6 - March 29, 2024 in Venice
October 7 - November 6, 2024 in Paris
December 18 - January 25 in Florence

Have I gone over the 90-day limit for the Schengen zone? It doesn't seem like it, but I don't have tha tmuch extra room.

I stayed in one apartment in Venice the whole time and I really liked it. In Florence, I'd like to stay in a monastery (-run hotel) and then a studio a block from the Ponte Vecchio for the views of the bridge and Arno from dawn to dusk and through the night hours. I was on a cruise from Athens to Lisbon a couple years ago and to be on the water and watch the sun move over it was mesmerizing.

Then a much larger apartment on the top floor in the Santa Spirito neighborhood, near the Pitti Palace, one that I feel I can't pass up. (I never went into the Pitti Palace or the Palazzo Vechio when I did my 16-day Best of Italy guided tour).

I know it will be 10-15 degrees colder in Florence in January compared to Venice in March but it will still be a big improvement over Seattle at that time of year and, in any case, more than compensated for by the beauty of the city.

(I discovered, too, that it is very easy to through a meal together with the enormous variety and the quality of the pasta, with a salad and wine). I am rereading my trove of books on Italian art history from my grad school days, and hopefully will learn more Italian and put it into everday practice.

The Schengen (essentially all central Europe excluding England) allows you any 90 days out of a rolling 180 day of the year so 180 days absolute max out of any one year but not altogether. This includes travel days in and out - not just stays. If you ever stay the max 90 days you have to leave and not come back for 90 days to let the 180 day clock run out.

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/international-travel/before-you-go/travelers-with-special-considerations/US_Travelers_in_Europes_Schengen_Area.html#:~:text=With%20a%20valid%20U.S.%20passport,re%2Denter%20the%20Schengen%20area.

Looking at your dates you should be fine because the March days are far enough back that you're back to 90 days eligible when you get to your later trips. If these trips were all together you would be right at the edge of what is allowed. The fines and penalties are steep BTW so it pays to keep track.

There are literally calculators to help:
https://ec.europa.eu/assets/home/visa-calculator/calculator.htm?lang=en
https://www.visa-calculator.com/

Europe has been trying to launch a unified day and day out counter system called EITAS for years now. It is currently rescheduled for mid 2025 but no one seems to have confidence in that date. Also make sure your passport is good for at least 3 months after your exit date and six months is better.

Your stays sound amazing - Venice, Paris, Florence all great choices and all cities that deserve long stays.

An annual pass to the Uffizi is only 70€ - I would look into this. Being able to wander in and out of the Uffizi whenever you feel like during a time of low crowds sounds like a dream to anyone with an interest in art history. I've noticed many museums in Italy have longer term passes that aren't that much more expensive than single admittance. I would check in Paris as well but I doubt there are ever any deals for the Louvre.

Have a great time,
=Tod

Is this in addition to your visit to southern Italy, or an alternative to that plan? I like this plan better, I think a city is the place to be in winter.

I can't resist pointing out that the days will be much, much shorter in December/January than they were in March. That bothers me a lot (I get lethargic), but I realize many people are absolutely fine with mid-winter trips. Having spent mid-February through mid-March 2023 farther south, in Rome/Naples/Salerno, I can say I was a lot happier toward the end of the trip as the days got longer and it didn't take until about noon for the temperature to get up to 40F.

I can't resist pointing out that the days will be much, much shorter in December/January than they were in March.

But there will be 30 minutes more daylight than in Seattle. I've traveled a couple of times to Florence in December, not nearly as long as the OP will be, but I found Florence weather an improvement over Seattle weather and a nice break.

There are lots of things to see and do in Florence and/or within 1 or 2 hours from Florence to keep you busy for even longer than that.
The advantage of winter is smaller crowds, especially at museums and other sights. The disadvantage is short daylight and temperatures in the low 50s during the day and 30s/low 40s at night. Compared to Seattle that is not too bad. Could be rainy at times, but it's not the rainiest time of the year, and no snow below 2500ft except for very rare circumstances.

We spent 10 nights in Florence one December, then 35 nights one September (plus a bit of August and October), and are now going for another 35 nights this November (plus a bit of October and December). Only two half-day daytrips that whole time. So, we'd say it's not overkill at all. I would have stayed even longer all three times, but my husband starts missing our dog and our cabin.

I never noticed the short days in winter until I read about it here several years ago. People are different. And the city is alive in the evenings and at night (unlike Saint Paul, Minnesota!).

With such a nice long stay, I highly recommend staying about a 15 or 20 minute walk from the most popular part of the center, but still within the old city walls --- our locations, all great: near Santo Spirito, near Piazza Beccaria, and near the Porta San Frediano.

Thanks for that solid endorsement, Nancy.

I haven't "bumped into" (online or off) any people that spend time in Florence months or weeks out of the year, living there, essentially, rather than as part of a whirlwind tourist "gig."

For years, I've thought of doing this (being not a digital nomad, but someone who spends time and goes back to the same places, even same apartments). It just seems to be the right thing to do.

And my ambivalence is that I don't enjoy being a tourist (so "why go to Florence and spend weeks there?").

Unlike France, where I speak sufficiently fluently the language (years of study) to make communication fairly easily, in Italy I have barely mastered more than a few phrases).

Of course, I would like to visit other places such as Bologna, but this, for me, is also a launching pad for more challenging visits. I do get agoraphobic easily: just taking a nondirect flight is a logistics hurdle. So my three-week stay in Rome 2-1/2 years ago wasn't even punctuated by a train ride to outside the Eternal City, not even to Pompei...which seems rather foolish, in retrospect.

There are literally calculators to help:
https://ec.europa.eu/assets/home/visa-calculator/calculator.htm?lang=en
https://www.visa-calculator.com/>

Thanks again, hired man.

I'm not as confident but doing this sort of calculation (and have a passport that must be renewed in the next month or tow).

It is obvious that I need to do some basic calculations, especially for the start of 2025, where I usually spend 4 weeks aboad in the month of March.

Yes...there is a cat cafe!

I would start on renewing your passport pretty quickly - I don't think it's backed up like it was but the official guidance is allow 8 weeks for a renewal.

As for your day count if you spend the time in October and then December and January then your March time would fall in the same 180 day period starting October 7th. If you don't like calculators you could just get an old school paper planner and mark off the days. Assuming your listed dates include travel days your day count is about 69 days leaving you about 21 days in March. A Google search says that April 5th is 180 days from Oct 7th so you're close to okay in March but could easily break 90 days if you're not careful.

It looks like technically if you didn't come back into Schengen until March 17th or so you would getting your October days "back" as you were there. But as I said the penalties are severe to be cutting it so close and it would probably only take one person having a bad do in immigration to cause you issues.

Of course you should do the math yourself but it seems you're close to okay with your plan but it might need some adjusting. If you could push your March travel into April - assuming it's not tied to specific window or event - it would do a lot to minimize your jeopardy. Also this is just the Schengen region areas outside Europe, including Ireland and the UK, don't count against this total so maybe shift locations a little as well.

Map of Schengen boundaries: https://schengenflightreservationvisa.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Schengen-Area-Countries-Schengen-Area-Map.webp

Hope this helps. I wish worrying about staying too many days was my issue rather than trying to find enough time.

Safe and happy travels,
=Tod

I would start on renewing your passport pretty quickly - I don't think it's backed up like it was but the official guidance is allow 8 weeks for a renewal.

Great. Very useful advice, Tod.

I just realized, as it is already May, that I have only actually less than 4 months until my passport expires on September 23, although my trip isn't until early October.

A few months aren't going to be so much of a loss. I'll have to do several things. Since I don't write personal checks anymore, I'll have to go to my bank to buy a money order. Then I'll have to print the form at my local library and then take it, my money order, and my passport to the post-office to get it sent special delivery. That's a lot of running around. And then there's the outside chance, they'll send it back and say something is missing or incomplete. Or there's a delay in processing due to X, Y, or Z.

Of course you should do the math yourself but it seems you're close to okay with your plan but it might need some adjusting. If you could push your March travel into April - assuming it's not tied to specific window or event - it would do a lot to minimize your jeopardy. Also this is just the Schengen region areas outside Europe, including Ireland and the UK, don't count against this total so maybe shift locations a little as well.

I do travel in March rather than April, as I'm one of those who likes relative solitude. Maybe I'll have to limit the trip to 3 weeks just to be safe. Unfortunately, the U.K. and Ireland are nowhere in my near future travel plans.

Actually, I "stumble" when it comes to calculations having once been a (failed) math major in college.

The weather and crowds in Florence are very manageable. It does rain, so I'd suggest taking a hooded waterproof trench coat (vs. an umbrella), to keep more of you dry, and avoid tangling umbrellas with others on narrow sidewalks. Put a light grocery sack in a pocket, and use it to check "a bag" of your coat in museums. Have a layer underneath (sweater or fleece) and it's great for anything.

While it does get dark early, the city doesn't sleep; there's always something going on. We've stayed a couple weeks, and with 5-6 weeks I'd roam the entire city, spend lots of times in the parks/gardens, hike up the (not challenging) hills, take a hot air balloon ride over the city, try to find the cowboy who rides through various piazzas, eat far too much chianina beef, talk to locals during passagiatta, wander through museums at my leisure, eat my weight in breakfast pastries, and drink a ton of cioccolata calda. Bliss! Plus probably go visit Lucca, Pisa, and Siena again as the mood strikes.

It does rain, so I'd suggest taking a hooded waterproof trench coat (vs. an umbrella), to keep more of you dry, and avoid tangling umbrellas with others on narrow sidewalks. Put a light grocery sack in a pocket, and use it to check "a bag" of your coat in museums.

Thanks, Sea Girl. I've been actually thinking about how I'll deal with the rain. It did rain about 33% (and heavily, too) of the time in Venice in March. Those days I generally stayed inside as I was really enjoying my apartment and trying not to push too hard. Plus, I have a really bad sense of direction and Google Maps wasn't as helpful as another app a local suggested I use, which was [helpful].

One thing I did find is that walking around people holding umbrellas is a drag. I don't see why people bother, as they do take up so much space, and I think it'd be easy to bump into others. So I took and wore my Marmot rain jacket, fairly lightweight (though I hadn't bothered to spray it before I left with a water repellent) and with a hood.

At the beginning I'll be staying in the Gavinana neighborhood, south and east of the Centro Storico (2-3 miles?), rather remote but I do feel like spending Christmas in a religious-affiliated place (a convent, actually). I need time to adjust being in a different country, after a very long flight, and gradually acclimatize and find my way around.

I did forget to bring a decent Trader Joe's grocery sack in March. The plastic bags in Venice were not very durable (and tore easily).

I need to work on throwing together warmer clothing than what I had in March. I am usually reluctant to bring heavy clothing such as wool sweaters along, and I travel usually in the spring and fall. I'm wondering whether a cashmere sweater and lightweight long-sleeve, almost thermal REI T-shirts will be sufficient.

I'm not a fashionista! There is a store called Brooks in Wallingford-Stoneway-Fremont that I passed by yesterday that I might check out, too, though I have lots of clothing I never wear or am even aware of (it just sits on shelves, in piles, or is in suitcases),

Hello Denny! I have spent up to 6 months at a time in Florence and was never bored. (yes forum police, I have citizenship so not an issue). Anyway, I always rented an apartment with a kitchen to take advantage of the amazing markets of fresh food. The more time you stay, the more you can settle into the culture. I also took many day trips to other towns...even went to the movies! LOTS to do to keep you from getting bored for sure. Enjoy!

Hi June,

Thanks for chiming in and sharing your obvious love and enthusiasm for Florence. I'm not sure whether at this point I want to call it my "my second home," but I do feel confident now that this is NOT a mistake spending 34 days there, despite my apprehension about crowds of people and being a 15-minute bus ride away from the Centro Storico, at the beginning of my trip, or being so close to the Ponto Vecchio after Christmas (and then in the Santa Spirito neighborhood the last two weeks). Come rain or not!