30 Days in Italy - Please help a novice traveler with itinerary

Great trip overall. You cover a lot of ground! Luckily you have time.

This section
4/24 – 4/26: Three days and nights in Florence, including day trip to Lucca
4/27: Train from Florence to Sienna, stay in Sienna
4/28: Sienna
4/29: Train from Sienna to Assisi, stay in Assisi
4/30: Train from Assisi to Orvieto, stay in Orvieto
5 /1: Orvieto, possible side trip to Civita
5/2: Train from Orvieto to Paestum, stay in Paestum
5/3: Train from Paestum to Sorrento via Naples, stay in Sorrento

is a but chopped up. I would add a night to Firenze and day trip to Siena, then take your second Siena night and add it to Assisi.

To go to Civita from Orvieto can be challenging without a car. The bus schedule when we were in the area just would not support going there from Orvieto. Potentially rent a car? Note May 1 is a holiday and check for closures, including at the car rental agency, and any buses that run weekdays will probably not run on the holiday.

If you travel to Paestum on the 2nd, and to Sorrento on the 3rd, when will you actually see Paestum? Is it worth the long trek for one night?

I have been to Paestum several times, definitely worth a night's stay. Remarkable temples and archeological zone, very good small museum, mozzarella farms and a beach.

Hi Zoe!!! I am certain Paestum is worth time, but is one night enough? Should he steal night from somewhere so he has a full day in Paestum? It's a long trip from Orvieto.

Hello, Laurel!

For me, Paestum is worth a couple of nights. But one night is better than no nights. If one wants to forgo the beach and mozzarella farm, and just visit the temples and museum, that could easily be a little more than a half-day on the ground. The Hotel dei Templi is at the edge of the archeological zone, the temples lighted at night are beautiful, and you can buy a ticket to the temples and museum at the hotel (or the hotel's restaurant), there is an entrance directly from the hotel. (The hotel itself is a splurge for me, but even when I stay elsewhere, I have a drink at the café near the entrance to the archeological zone.)

Paestum is wonderful, you could either stay there (for some relaxation and visiting the beach and such) or you could stay In Salerno and do that side of the coast, Vietri, Paestum, etc....

but yes! go to Paestum! (From somewhere close by! because from Sorrento is crazy far)

You are all so generous with your time and knowledge, I can't thank you enough!

I was a little doubtful about Paestum because travel there is time-consuming, but will definitely keep it based on your comments. The beach is really not important - the temples and museum attract me - so I'll spend at least a half day and a night there. If travelling there doesn't allow much sightseeing time that day, I'll spend as much time as necessary the next day.

Laurel - your comments about Florence, Sienna, Orvietto, Assisi, etc., being too chopped up really hit on my concerns about those days. So, you would add another day/night to Florence and do Sienna as a day trip? St. Francis is an important historical person, but I'm not very religious, so I was including Assisi for the history, architecture, art, and scenery. Since travel to Civita is challenging, I can eliminate that. Given all that, how would all of you suggest planning for Florence, Sienna, Assisi and Orvieto?

Incidentally, I just booked my 4 nights in Venice at Albergo San Samuele, which is recommended by RS and got great reviews on Trip Advisor. That's taken care of - yay!

So you would add another day/night to Florence and do Sienna as a day trip? St. Francis is an important historical person, but I'm not very religious, so I was including Assisi for the history, architecture, art, and scenery. Since travel to Civita is challenging, I can eliminate that. Given all that, how would all of you suggest planning for Florence, Sienna, Assisi and Orvieto?

Based on this input and the appeal of Paestum I suggest

• Firenze, 4/24-28 with day trips to Siena & Lucca, 4 nights

• Assisi, 4/28-29, 1 night; Try to get there early. It really is a lovely city and worth a full day

• Orvieto, 4/29-5/1, 2 nights. Check locally to see what bus schedule is to Cività and decide. You could possibly do it on the 30th if there's a convenient bus to and from

• Paestum, 5/1-5/3, 2 nights

• Sorrento 5/3-5/7 as planned above

This tightens it up a little. Only one 1-night stay, one less change of location.

Your trip to St. Moritz may be a very harried day. According to Swiss train schedules, you could leave at 7:24 and get into St. Moritz at 11:11, but the last train back to Varenna would leave at 17:08 and get back at 20:37. That would give you just less than 6 hours in St. Moritz with travel time of nearly 7 hours to to roundtrip. For me that would be too much traveling in one day, but strictly up to you.

The trip sounds amazing and well planned. Only thing I'd suggest is don't give up a night in Siena. It's such a beautiful city and you really want to spend some time in Piazza del Campo during the day and when it's all lit up at night. Palazza Ravizza is a great hotel inside the city walls and check out Taverna di Cecco for an amazing dinner. I highly recommend the tortellini alla panna. If you need to give up a day I would suggest Orvieto. Hope you have a great time!

Since you are staying at the Beehive, the owners there also have lodging through Cross-Pollinate.com for Venice and Florence. Also I would recommend B and B Ripa Medici in Orvieto which was terrific. Right on the city walls overlooking the valley. We did a month in Italy and sicily last fall and had a blast.

Thank you all for your comments and suggestions. I'm doing more reading and research to plan the days in Florence, Sienna, Assisi, and Orvieto, and will post more later. Here are my current thoughts.

Ken - Regarding St Moritz, I'm doing that for the Bernina Pass train trip that ends in St. Moritz. A couple of hours in St. Moritz will be OK. A friend did it a couple of years ago and said it was great. She also said she purchased all the necessary train tickets at the travel agency in Varenna - both Trenitalia for the roundtrip to Tirano and the Swiss rail tickets from Tirano to St. Moritz and back. Right now, there's only one train daily from Varenna to Tirano, but I believe there are several per day in April. If that's not correct, please advise. At any rate, it appears that it can be a last-minute decision based on weather, etc.

Laurel - I think I can see what I want in Paestum with an overnight there. I agree that involves quite a bit of travel, but those Greek temples look amazing! So, if I take that day away from Paestum, I can add it to Toscana.

One change I'm making is for 3 full days in Firenze, plus additional days for side trips. The 2 days I had planned are not going to cut it!

Dan - Sorry I called you Ken. It's been a long day and too much computer time.

Hi Zoe,

The Hotel dei Templi looks very nice. Since I'll be arriving by train and dragging my RS Rolling Carry-on, do you recommend it or someting else? I'm also not averse to paying a few Euros for a bus or taxi, if they are available.

Jay: There are multiple trains to Tirano from Varenna but in order to enjoy the most time in St. Moritz the best bet would be 07:24, arriving in Tirano at 8:50, then the 9:00 train to St. Moritz arriving at 11:11. It still looks like the last train that would get you all the way back to Varenna leaves St. Moritz at 16:48, arriving in Tirano at 19:00 with the train for Varenna leaving at 19:10, getting there at 20:36. Any later trains from St. Moritz cannot meet the last Tirano-Varenna train that leaves Tirano at 20:06. And yes you can buy train tickets at the travel agency right on the way into town from the Varenna train station right next door to the Rick Steves recommended hotel Albergo Berreta.

Most hotels in Paestum will pick you up if you let them know in advance. Hotel dei Templi is close enough to walk, I would say about half a kilometer from the station, but there are also taxis at the train station. Last time I was in Paestum (last year) the station was unstaffed, so wherever you buy your train ticket to Paestum, also buy your ticket from Paestum.

Hi everyone -

I had a conversation this morning with an extremely well-traveled friend whose father grew up in Bolzano di Grappa, speaks fluent Italian, and has been to/through Italy several times. It was a conversation I should have had a month ago. Looooong story short, I'm reconsidering all parts of the trip except for the 4 nights in Venice and 6 in Rome, which I prepaid. I may very well extend those stays.

James - I do plan to return to Italy, and I'll take your critique a step further. Besides jumping around, I'm asking myself why am I considering staying in tourist traps like Vernazza and Sorrento. (My friend describes them as larger versions of Fisherman's Wharf in San Francisco, my hometown.) Maybe Sorrento makes sense for seeing Capri, but not the Amalfi Coast. Also, Pompeii, the Archeology Museum in Naples, and some walking around Naples could be a good day trip from Rome. There are many popular sites I want to and should see on this trip, but also go beyond those places in order to truly experience Italy.

I'll be having an extended conversation with my friend in a couple of days. She already suggested using 3-4 "bases" such as Venice, Florence or Sienna, Rome, and Positano to explore those cities and regions in some depth, maybe in part by car. I may blow off Cinque Terre entirely. And/or blow off Lake Como and spend a couple of nights in Verona on the way to Venice.

Thank you all for your insights and advice. I'm going to "go quiet" on the Travel Forum for awhile, but I'll be back. There's still plenty of time before the plane takes off!

:-) Jay

Hello all,

I'm back with an update after more research and having booked accommodations. As several of you previously suggested, I will overnight in fewer cities and reduce the number of travel days. My lodging reservations are somewhat flexible. I'd appreciate comments and suggestions on my updated itinerary, which can still be changed.

4/12 - 4/13: Fly SFO to Frankfurt
4/13: Fly Frankfurt to Milan, train to Varenna, stay in Varenna
4/14: Varenna, Lake Como boat tour
4/15: Train from Varenna to Verona, stay in Verona
4/16: Train from Verona to Venice, stay in Venice
4/17 – 4/19: Three full days and nights in Venice
4/20: Train from Venice to Cinque Terra, stay in Vernazza
4/21 – 4/22: Two full days and nights in Cinque Terra, stay in Vernazza
Day trip to Pisa or somewhere if weather is poor
4/23: Train from Vernazza to Pisa, +-4 hours in Pisa, train to Florence, stay in Florence
4/24 – 4/27: Four full days and nights in Florence, including day trip to Lucca. Possible bike/food/wine day in here.

4/28: Bus from Florence to Siena, stay in Sienna
4/29 – 4/30: Two full days and nights in Siena. Probable food/wine/bike tour
5/1: Train and/or bus from Siena to Sorrento via Naples, stay in Sorrento
5/2 – 5/4: Three full days and nights in Sorrento, see Capri, Pompeii, and Naples
5/5: Bus tour of Amalfi Coast to Amalfi. Explore Positano, stay in Amalfi.

5/6: Full day on Amalfi Coast, stay in Amalfi
5/7: Bus/train to Rome, with possible side trip to Paestum en route (a long day with Paestum!)
5/8 – 5/13: Six full days and nights in Rome, with day trips to Ostia and Tivoli/Hadrian’s villa, with Orvieto as another possibility
5/14: Fly Rome to SFO via Munich. Drink a lot of beer in Munich airport.

For the benefit of everyone reading this, I advise making your hotel reservations as early as reasonably possible. For my travel dates, many of the RS-recommended places I booked have sold out between early February and now. If not sold out, prices for the same nights have increased by as much as 50% (I checked out of curiosity).

James - Thanks for the tip on the melatonin!

Jay for what it's worth, I'm another Bay Area guy and I will also be in Florence on 4/23-24, having flown into Milan on 4-23. Will also be on my own and who knows we might cross paths in Florence on those days.

Fortunately Jay, given your desire for a beer or two, you will find the world's only airport brewery at Franz Josef Strauss Airport.

Dan - Yeah, maybe we can meet somewhere in Firenze. I grew up in San Mateo - small world, isn't it? I'll send you a pesonal message with my email.

mph - That's what I had heard - thanks!