1st trip to Italy - Itinerary Help please

It seems like a lot of stops to me, but only you can decide if you would enjoy moving every 2 days. Remember that even when travel times are fairly short, the time it takes to pack up, get to the station, take the train, settle in, etc., you lose a lot of time and will only have about one day in each of those places. I think Florence deserves at least 3-4 nights (5 was not enough for me), but that's my opinion (as a non-art-lover). Venice is, for me, the most amazing place I've ever been. Yes it can be touristy, but 5% (maybe less) of the city is where 95% of the tourists go. Efforts to stray away from those small areas will be largely rewarded and 2 nights in Venice is barely enough to scratch the surface of this unbelievable and unique city.
I think one thing with planning an itinerary in Italy is.... you MUST assume you will go back :) Trying to fit it all in won't work, I think you just end up seeing very little because you're always on the go. my personal approach is to try to pick a few places, spend a little bit longer there, and save some other places for a return trip that you just vow to taking :)

Are you planning to have a car? Staying in an agriturismo and visiting smaller villages would probably need a car.

I think if you do the trip as planned, you'll end up regretting moving every other day. You've either got a lot of driving and looking for parking, or you've got a lot of train connections and dragging luggage around.

I'd drop some of the cities with plans to see them on a future trip to Italy. Spend more time in fewer locations.

Patrick-

I was planning to have a car for the portion in Umbria and Tuscany until I get to Florence.

So would Assisi work as a base for Umbria, or am I better to base myself somewhere else? I was really hoping to spend some time in Assisi either before or after the tour groups arrive. The other thing I was considering was whether it would be better to base in either Florence or Siena (probably more likely Florence with a day trip to Siena)?

As far as the Venice vs. Pompeii question... I felt that Pompeii (the historical site) was way too touristy for me. We drove and parked near the site and I just like we got hussled. Venice on the other hand can be a tourist trap, but in the shoulder seasons you'll have less tourists than in the summer. There are areas of Venice that are just as quaint and small town feeling as Assisi and Siena.

Kathleen,

IMHO, visiting 8 locations in 18 days is overly ambitious and while it may be technically feasible, the trip will be far too rushed. My first suggestion would be to drop at least one (and perhaps two) destinations from your list.

Keep in mind that you'll lose the first day in flight times and time zone changes, so you'll actually have 17 days. You're also going to be jet lagged for the first few days, so won't be up to "touring speed".

There's also no allowance in the Itinerary for travel times between cities. By the time you check out of the Hotel, get to the station, travel to the new location, find your Hotel and check-in, you'll be losing at least half a day even where the travel distance is relatively short. The majority of your stops are two nights each, so that means you'll only have about a day or so to explore each one.

On the last day, you'll be heading for the airport for the flight home, so that leaves 16 days for travel. I'd highly recommend open jaw flights (even if they cost a bit more) as that would be a more efficient way to structure such a short trip.

Regarding Venice, while it does tend to be "touristy", it's such a unique place that it's definitely worth seeing at least once. Two days is good for Venice. I'd highly recommend leaving Naples and Pompeii for a future visit when you have the time to see them properly (and also visit Sorrento, Capri and Positano).

I don't mean to be pessimistic, but rather realistic. I believe there are too many stops here for an 18-day trip.

Cheers!

I'm so glad that others echo the "don't miss Venice" thing. One thing about touristy places - people go there for a reason! Venice is such an amazing place, no other place like it. My only disappointment in Venice was food - while I had one REALLY incredible meal there (FAR away from the center - we did the "get lost on the vaporetto" thing so I have no idea where we were!), the others were so-so.

You can get a good bit of the smaller villages by touring around Tuscany - lots of little places that are not on the 10 best lists that are wonderful. We've always taken recommendations from the agriturismos we've stayed in as to nice places to drive, stop, etc.

And though I'm really glad I've seen Pompeii (twice), it can be overwhelming with all the tour groups. Unless you were going to the Amalfi coast I'd skip it this trip and concentrate on Rome and North.

I took my first trip to Italy (solo, too) last October. I chose a shorter trip, so I focused on the north. First and last nights, Milan, 4 in Venice, 5 in Florence, 1 in Cinque Terre. I found that the one night stays didn't involve packing/unpacking. Even so, I was pretty worn out by the end (and I didn't have long-haul flights or jetlag to deal with).

I did all my travel by rail. There were several reasons I didn't want to rent a car: [1] it's expensive when you are solo, [2] driving in Italy is a challenge and solo you have to deal with both the road conditions and the navigating, [3] some of the cities (Florence, Siena among them) have dreaded no-drive zones (you can read more on this forum), and finally [4] the trains are good in Italy.

So I limited my itinerary to the cities with good train access. I managed a full day in Verona and 1/2 days in Padua and Pisa while "training" from city to city, by checking my bags at the train stations. Even so, changing locations eats up a half day, what with packing, checking in/out, getting to/from train station.

Venice - I fell in love with it (and can't wait to go back - Feb 4th). I had 3 days, one of which I "wasted" on a trip to the islands (Torcello and Burano). Much of Venice is not touristy and most of the tourists are 9-5 day-trippers from the cruise ships. I stayed in the Dorsoduro section, which is very close to the "action" but has a definitely quiet and residential atmosphere.

Florence - If you love 14th-18th century art, and especially sculpture, 2 days in Florence is barely scratching the surface - and there is more. I had 4 days, one of which was a day trip to Siena, and didn't get to everything on my must-see list (while I loved the sculpture I did pretty much skim through the other art).

If I were planning your trip, I would drop Bologna and add that time to Venice. I would see Siena as a day trip from Florence and add those nights to your Florence stay.

PS - it's not about how much you can see, but how much you can enjoy what you see.

Hi Kathleen!

Nice to see another Twin Cities resident here.

We're planning about 12 days in March. I'm doing the same thing you are. I want to see it all!

We're thinking of flying into Rome then out of Venice. Since we're going around my 40th birthday, I have two places that I absolutely want to see. 1. Cinque Terre 2. Venice

My wish list was as long as yours. It's becoming shorter in the interest of having a more relaxing trip.

So, my suggestion? Start by listing everything you want to see. As you start doing it, you'll begin to see a pattern and can start separating things off for future trips (cause we're all going to go back again and again!)

As a solo traveler, maybe it's easier to manage the travel days?

"Patrick-I was planning to have a car...So would Assisi work as a base for Umbria..."

Assisi is fine, but I really wouldn't call it a "base for Umbria" if you're only there two nights. In that amount of time, all you can do is see Assisi.

Assisi has a modern multi-story parking garage at the edge of town, with an elevator that takes you to town level. So while it's not free, it's convenient. You could park there, pull your luggage to your accommodation, and make it pretty well.

I'd advise you to avoid driving INTO any of the old town centers. I've driven in the heart of Manhattan and can tell you that I found driving in Italian town centers much more stressful than driving in New York City! Park at the edge and walk in.

If you're staying 2 nights, I picture you getting there one afternoon, checking in, having dinner, sleeping, seeing Assisi the next day, sleeping, and driving on the next morning.

So you really don't have time in such a short stay to see neighboring towns or anything before it's time to press on to Perugia, where you'll repeat the same scenario.

Here's where I am right now:

18 days was on the ground days in Italy. I didn't count the flight over in the days.

The 2 nights in Perugia would be scrapped in favor of 4 nights total in Assisi. So would it work as a base to see other areas in Umbria or am I better to base in Perugia as I believe Assisi is about 30 minutes from Perugia by train.

I have decided to stay in Florence for 4 nights and do a side trip to Siena.

I thinking of updating my itinerary to something along these lines:

4 nights in Rome
3-4 nights in Umbria (either Assisi or Perugia)
2 nights Tuscany agriturismo
4 nights Florence
3-4 nights Venice

ooooh, much better.

Yes, much much better.

Perugia is more in the center of Umbria than Assisi. You an more easily drive out to other towns from there.

If you have a car, I'd advise staying on the edge of town, so it's easy to park at your lodging and drive in and out of town to see other places, but also easy to get into Perugia when you want a meal or sightseeing there.

In Umbria, Assisi is nice but we LOVED Spello, and also liked Montefalco, Todi, and of course the greatest place in Umbria: Orvieto.

We parked at the base of Spello, in a free public lot, walked up into town and spent the morning there. Then drove over to Montefalco for lunch and sightseeing there. A perfect day.

Kathleen,

You didn't mention having a rental car in your original post. A few points to mention....

For driving in Italy, you'll require the compulsory International Driver's Permit, which must be used in conjunction with your regular D.L. Failure to produce an I.D.P. if requested can result in fines on the spot (should they choose to exercise that option). The I.D.P. can be obtained easily at any AAA office and is valid for one year.

As the others have mentioned, be especially careful of driving into towns in Italy (especially Florence), so that you don't pass through one of the dreaded Zona Traffico Limitato zones. Driving past the automated Cameras will result in a violation ticket (and you may go past multiple Cameras). Check other posts here on the HelpLine as there's lots of info on the subject.

I usually get the full CDW even though this adds to the cost, as I don't want any problems should the vehicle be inadvertently damaged. Rick's advice on the CDW question is at this link - www.ricksteves.com/plan/tips/carrental_cdw.htm

Cheers!

I would suggest that you visit Bologna. It is a great city. You could take a late afternoon train from Venice and spend the night and part of the day in Bolonga on your way to Florence or vice-a-versa. It cuts down the travel time between Florence and Venice and it isn't touristy because most tourist don't stop there. However, it is a great city with great food.

I think your new itinerary is much better! And keep in mind that using a town as a base means you can go to the train station in the morning with no heavy pack, visit 1 or 2 other places, and return in the evening. As Ken pointed out earlier, even a short move eats up about 1/2 day so you're able to spend that much more time exploring.

One other thing in the Tuscany/Umbria area is to look into buses. From Assisi or Perugia this could be a good way to explore other hilltowns or the wine region. Perugia in fact is a hub of one of the bus lines: http://www.apmperugia.it/canale.asp?id=23

So could I manage without a car?

The main reason I wanted to go to Bologna was to take a cooking class. I know there are some in Florence as well.

4 nights in Rome: don't need or even want a car

3-4 nights in Umbria (either Assisi or Perugia): You can see a few places by public transportation, but getting to some of the towns could be out of the question.

2 nights Tuscany agriturismo: Hard to find an agriturismo near public transportation. Without a car I guess you'd either just stay on the farm or call a taxi. Taxi might work if you're very close to a larger town and only want to go into that town. Or, once in town, public transportation might get you to a few other places. There's not a lot of public transportation for large areas of rural Tuscany. E-mail the place you want to stay and ask them if there's a taxi available to get you to/from town.

4 nights Florence: don't need or even want a car

3-4 nights Venice: don't need or even want a car

So, I'd say either eliminate the agriturismo stay or get a car for just those few days.

you don't need a car, even in Tuscany/Umbria. You pay a price in convenience by using public transit (train or bus), but its still doable. We've traveled in the area by train and had a fine time. From Perugia, for example, you take the bus down to the train line, go by train to your destination, then the bus up to the hilltown such as Assisi or Cortona. With a car you go directly and when you're ready to move on the car is waiting, but you can still get around plenty of places by bus & train. A partial list of places we've visited by train starting in Perugia is Cortona, Assisi, Arezzo, Orvieto, and Todi (on the small private train line from Perugia). So for a 1st time visitor I don't think you'll run out of places to go...

To get to Bologna you can subtract a day or two from Venice and go to Bologna from Florence. Then again, I'm not a big fan of Venice and some people are so they'd want the full 4 days there. If you visit Bologna, I'd also recommend a 1/2 day trip to Parma (easily reachable by train).

"Mike: you don't need a car, even in Tuscany/Umbria."

Mike, should she still do the 2 nights at a Tuscany agrigurismo without a car? It doesn't sound like a good idea to me, but you may know a way to make it work.

I have an email into the agriturismo to see how easy it would be to get around without a car. I was mostly planning for those 2 days to be pretty relaxing, maybe some hiking.

The agriturismo is located about 6 km NW of Pienza in Camprena if that helps. (It's where part of the movie 'The English Patient' was filmed.)

Patrick, you're right public transit won't work well at an agriturismo. I had missed that part, thought the OP was staying in town in either Perugia or Assisi.