first time

dan, given that you don't want to rush yourselves, enjoy the sites, food, wine and have a relaxing time, IMO your planned Itinerary is a bit too "ambitious". As this is your first visit, I'd suggest 4 days in Rome (keep in mind you'll lose the first day in flight times and it will take you a day or so to get over jet lag), 3 days in Siena, perhaps 2-3 days in Florence and 2 days in the Cinque Terre. You could take day trips from either/or Siena or Florence to other locations in the area. Keep a few days open for travel days. Note that Tuscany is a region and both Siena and Florence are located there.

Open-jaw tickets would be a really good idea. You could fly into Fiumicino (Rome) and return home from Malpensa (Milano). Regarding the Hotels, I've travelled in Italy at that time of year and it's a bit of a gamble whether there will be vacancies. I prefer to have my lodgings "locked down" so that I can maximise touring time, rather than wasting time looking for a place to bunk. This also ensures that I'll have lodgings in both the price range I prefer as well as the area of town that I want.

Another option you could consider would be to stop at Orvieto (region - Umbria) for a day or two on the way north from Rome. It's a wonderful small city with lots of history, and a visit to one of Rick's favourite hill towns, Civita di Bagnoregio would be a nice day trip. Of course, if you stopped there it would probably be necessary to drop one of the other destinations.

You didn't indicate which method of travel you would be using. I find train to usually be the best and fastest method.

Cheers!

Thank you for the insight. This is the input we NEED. our method of travel will be train. If I had to narrow down the one place we need to see, it would be cinque terre. I also feel if we are going to Italy, we need to see Rome and the incredible history. In a two week trip, how would you plan for the time between Rome and cinque terra?

Dan, you'll have fun without a doubt. Problem with your question is, you can't travel off the beaten path in the places you mention. I know the folk who frequent this sight the most will disagree, but their wrong. You won't have any problem finding a hotel anywhere providing you are ready to look. As for locals, and culture?, try Cambodia. Don't get me wrong Dan, I love Italy deeply. Truth is, every place mentioned in RS's book and most of the others are not going to offer unspoiled local culture ever again. Ever.

Thanks Josh. I wish I had gone years ago...
If you were to plan our trip, where would you go?

I'm not sure what Josh means by "locals and culture." There are lots of "locals and culture" in the areas you plan to visit. If you're thinking about visiting the Italy of the hardy but poor peasant scraping a living out of the rocky ground, sitting at the side of his vineyard quaffing a bottle of wine and eating a loaf of bread....well, that Italy disappeared half a century ago. You're visiting a rich, modern western nation in the 21st century. Enjoy the history you find there....that hasn't changed. If what you REALLY want to is to get away from tourists, then head down to Bari, rent a car, and travel up the Adriatic coastline. You won't see many tourists there....but the Italians you find won't be much different than the Italians found at the locations you've mentioned.

Dan, we followed a simialr itinerary in May and had no toruble experiencing local culture. It's all about attitude and willingness to seek out those experiences that show you how Italians live today. We actually found that advance reservations helped with this. We spent a good deal of time choosing our accomodations, and stayed at small family run hotels and B & B's. Sites like Trip Advisor will let you know which hosts offer the most help and warmest welcome. For example, we stayed in a small Hotel in Florence where the Manager (marco) was only too happy to help us find opportunities to experience local culture. Some would say that is a hard thing to do in such a touristy place, but with a little digging we walked just outside the walls and had dinner for less than €10 each (with wine) surrounded by locals (shared tables) doing the Italian version of fast food (which is nothing like North American fast food). In Cinque Terre (Vernazza) we chose to rent a flat from a local (Maria Cappalleni), and enjoyed an "Italian Coffee" at their kitchen table talking in broken english/Italian about how life has changed in their lifetime. Around 5 pm you head to the benches by the sea wall, bring your bottle of wine, and watch the locals gather in the square after work or the 5:00 o'clock mass. In Sienna, the scene changes a great deal if you stay right in town (we were just off Il Campo at a small B & B) in the evening when the day trippers head home. The same thing in Montalcino. In Rome it was wine and pannini at a little place called Aristocampo just off Campo di Fiori. Anyway, I'd vote for Rome (4 nights), Orvieto(with a side trip to Civita- 2 nigths, Sienna (2 nights), Vernazza (3 nights) and Florence (3 nights). And I would make reservations, not because you necessarily need them, but to ensure you stay in the right location/atmosphere. Have fun. I'm jealous just thinking about it. Our 21 days this May was the adventure of a lifetime. Tim....

I found such wonderful hilltowns as Radicofini, San Casinao dei Bagni, very real and untouristy but then I traveled in November. Train travel is great and easy BUT I would rent a car in Chiusi and explore the surrounding area which includes Orvieto. That's what I did and I still remember the my meal at La Grotta in Radicofini where no english was spoken and I truly felt I'd found heaven. Having the car provided me with flexibility and I loved just seeing a sign, making a turn and finding a small town/village to explore. This place was superb:
http://www.bb-palazzopalesa.toscanaviva.com/home.htm Go off the beaten path even in Rome, be sure to get lost and wander. Ciao.

Dan, thanks for the update on your travel plans. Other than Rome and the Cinque Terre, could you indicate which of the other locations are most important to you (Siena, Florence, Lago di Como). It would be easier to make suggestions with a bit of further information.

With only two weeks to work with, you will have to plan your travel and sightseeing very carefully, so that you don't waste any time!

I've got to second the idea that the best way to ensure experiencing authentic culture is to make your lodging arrangements ahead of time, as in NOW for your time period. The family-owned B&Bs are the way to go and they can fill up quickly. If you wait, you run the risk of having only large hotels with available rooms by the time you get to your destination. The great thing about Italy is that there are very few "bad" choices when it comes to places to see.

Since this is your first trip, you might want to start in the north (it's easier to manage) and then work your way south, ending in Rome. (That way you'll also postpone going down to the hotter southern weather to give it a little more time to cool off.)

You could fly into Milan and train immediately to the CT, recover from jet lag there for 3 nights, then on to Siena (2 nts), Florence (3 nts) and then Rome (5 nts). Or add 2 nights in Lake Como at the start, and take away one night each from Florence and Rome. Those are my thoughts.

Wow, I'm very impressed with all the info you've contributed so far. Keep it coming. I really can't say which towns between CT and rome would be of more interest to us. I just don't know enough about any of them to make a decision. Family owned hotels and B&B's would probably be our preference for lodging. We also would love some more dining recommendations. We would prefer the not so touristy places that are middle of the road pricing, but great charm and atmosphere. We are really getting excited for this and I think we'll take everyones advice and start booking!

Dan, the first step will be to check with a travel agent (or whatever) to find out the best options and prices you have for open-jaw flights. Look either for flights to Milan and home from Rome, or vice-versa.

Once that's established, it should be relatively easy to work out an Itinerary.

Cheers!

We found we got the best dining recommendations from the places where we were staying after we arrived. Tell them at the front desk what you're looking for and then they can also show you on a map how to get there. Otherwise you get flooded with tons of well-intentioned recommendations that become a burden of their own, IMHO.

Hi Dan,

First of all, you will need to be sure to bring your fat pants to Italy! :) Although you will walk tons you may gain a pound or two and the last thing you want to think about on vacation is tight pants.

OK, seriously.... My husband and I went on our first trip to Europe in 2006 and it was a disaster because we tried to cram in way too much. It was overwhelming. I agree with the other posters that you need to allow a couple of days in Rome to get over the jet lag. In my opinion, there are two types of people: those that love Rome and want to spend a week there and then there are those that can't wait to get the heck out of there. We fell into the latter category. The cities in Italy can be very chaotic, so we much preferred the Tuscan countryside. I highly recommend agriturismos in this region. RS touches on them. In Greve we stayed at Cetinelle and it was wonderful and affordable (73 euros per night).

Sienna is incredible. The time of year that you are going will still be touristy, but this year seems to be a little slower than in the past.

We passed on Cinque Terre upon arrival on our last trip. Again, this was the disaster trip so I could be completely wrong about the place. When we arrived in late October it was still so touristy we could harldy navigate the streets of Vernazza. Unfortunately, I think this is one place that could have been better without RS's discovery.

Lake Como is on our next visit. I will trust you to relay your experiences. I hear it is breathtaking.

Make sure that you always stay focused on your goal-- to enjoy yourselves. That will help keep things in perspective when you miss your train, the restaurants aren't open yet for dinner and your starving, and you and your wife begin to bicker. All of those things will happen, but just remember that the experience is what happens on your trip, not what you planned to happen on your trip. :)

Btw,we just got back from our second trip and it was incredible.

Enjoy!

hi dan
a friend and i will be in rome for 4 days before our oct 29 transatlantic cruise. i found a website that is worth looking at. freereservation.com has a lot of places to sleep; from b&b's, apartments, hotels etc. hope this helps you.

Don't bother with a travel agent.
Depending on how you need to travel or sleep, you can always find a better deal doing it on your own.
Flights within Europe, even specific countries can be cheaper than a train- and a hellava lot faster!!!
Not to mention- getting off the beaten path!
Pick 2-3 places and explore the in-between- locals, food, wine....
Have fun!!!

We're trying to decide on the last 2 weeks of Oct. and 1st two of Nov. also. It sounds like it gets more unpredictable as it gets later in the year. What I noticed is that October seems to have a few more days of rain on average than November, as a trade-off for the temperatures.

My own observation:

We loved Rome and you might find you wish you had another day.

We love Siena as a home base -- the old central town is small and has a wonderful feel, particularly in the evening.

We did a day trip to Florence from Siena, which we found adequate -- we didn't care much for Florence other than the usual sights.

CT is wonderful, though the other posters are correct--Vernazza can get overrun during the day with tour buses. We've thought of another town to stay in next time.

The good thing to remember is that you can't really go wrong in Italy. We allotted too much time in the CT for us, but did a day trip to Lucca, for example. Have a great time --

We are getting close to booking our trip, finally!! We've decided on a rough plan to go from Rome (2days max) through the tuscany region for 4-5 days. Cinque Terra for 3-4 days, and on to Milan where we will fly out of at the end of our trip. We are finding rates in October to be beween $1000-1200 per person. In earyl Nov (1-17th) they are roughly 750-800. Can anyone tell me what we could expect in earyl nov versus october weather-wise. I've read in Rick Steve's book that the average temp in oct is H-63 and Lows of 52. November is H51-L43 Which seems a little chilly to enjoy the outdoors like we want to. Any thoughts or experiences with the weather that time of year? As always, advise in Tuscany, sienna, CT for lodging and dining welcomed. Dan

I lived in Chioggia (50km south of Venice) on the Adriatic for several years. The weather in November will be chilly and can be rainy. But you will also get sunny days. September is actually the best time to travel. Warm days and less tourists.

We finally booked our trip..Woohoo! We are going to be in Italy from oct 8-23rd. We are flying into rome on the 9th, staying two nights in Rome. Then we are off to the Orvieto are for a two night stay in an agritourismo (recommendations needed asap) we want to keep it to $100 per night if possible but may splurge if it comes that highly recommended. After that we are heading to Sienna for a couple of nights, maybe San Giamanganno and some of the other hill towns (agritourismo recommendations needed there too) for 2-3 nights. After that we go to CT for 3 nights, possibly staying in vernazza. We'll have 2-4 nights left at the end of our trip as we make our way to Milan. Any ideas for another location to see on the way North that would cap off our first trip. any ideas would be helpful for lodging, eating etc. Cheers. DK

How about the lakes area? Lake Como? I have heard that Lake Orta is beautiful.
You could also stay in Milan and see the sites there.
Enjoy your trip.

I would use some of those extra nights at the start of your trip - in Rome. Do four nights in Rome and then go.

You need to add at least 2 more days to Rome. Right now you only have one day there. Find one agrotourismo in Tuscany to use as a home base. Rent a car and spend a week or so visiting the many hilltowns. With a car you will be able to get to towns that are not filled with tourists and can have a relaxing time and get off the beaten path.

Dan,

Great to hear that you've now booked the trip! A few more thoughts.....

I agree with Michael that you should add at least two days to Rome. You're not going to be up to "touring speed" for a few days, and only one day in Rome is not enough! Since you have a few "extra" days at the end, I'd suggest using a few of them in Rome. Be sure to plan your touring in Rome carefully, so you don't waste any time.

Two nights in Orvieto is good. I don't know of any agriturismo's in that area, as I stayed right in town. Check Rick's "Italy" book for listings. Were you intending to visit Rick's favourite hill town, Civita di Bagnoregio, while in that area?

You might consider staying right in Siena, so that you can enjoy the ambience (not to mention the Gelato) in the evenings. Again, the Guidebooks have lots of listings for accomodations. I stayed at Albergo Bernini and would certainly recommend them.

Be sure to look at all the towns of the Cinque Terre, as they each have their own unique character. Vernazza is quite popular, but there will probably be lots of choices for lodgings at that time of year. If you want a large, sandy beach then Monterosso al Mare would be the best choice. I stayed in Riomaggiore on my last visit, and quite enjoyed my time there. Corniglia doesn't get as much attention from visitors as it's on top of a bluff (and farther from the train stations). Manarola is also great!

If you have time (be sure to factor your travel time in as well), you might consider a short visit to Lago di Como (Varenna), which is another very beautiful spot. It's only an hour north of Milan, and IMHO would be a fantastic "final stop" on your trip.

Buon Viaggio!