15 days in Italy fall 2020

Though everyone is different, a general rule of thumb is that every move pretty much takes half a day from packing, checking out, transport, finding new place, checking in...you get the picture.
Consider what drew you to these places. Then think again...are you replicating similar in different locations?
I have an online buddy who almost annually spends early fall in the Dolomites for hiking. If you really want that, I wouldn't miss it....but from Vienna, it would most likely mean flight to Milan then getting into whatever area is best for hiking. It could be wonderful but might require dropping either Lake Como area or Cinque Terre.

Rome isn't all dirt and crowds. Send your husband to walk the Palantine Hills or Borghese Park for green space and fewer folks. Head out and bike the Appian Way. You 4 don't have to stay attached at the hip. Ending with Rome means having acclimated to the culture (to a point) and DH should be more tolerant by the end.
You are correct that it is a lot of moves and you would benefit from more time in several of these places, but there are appetiser travelers and full 5 course travelers. With feedback here, you'll determine what suits you best.

Do you mean Vienna, or were you thinking of Venice? Two nights isn't long enough in either place. That will give you just one full day plus a few odd hours. In Venice, that will pretty much consign you to spending all your time surrounded by mobs of other tourists. Give yourself more time so you can see the non-touristy areas.

I like Rome. I like big cities. But there's no rule saying every traveler going to Italy must have Rome on his itinerary. My first trip to Europe (while in college) lasted an entire summer and I didn't get to Rome. I just felt I didn't have time to go that far south. Your trip is quite short; your husband doesn't like crowds. You could easily use that Rome time elsewhere. There's history and atmosphere everywhere in Italy.

Two night may also be short for Lake Como, but that depends on how many of the lake towns you want to see. I would imagine there are some lovely potential walks there, too. Note that I have not traveled to northern Italy in late September or October and don't know what the weather might be like. I suspect it could be rainy.

I loved the Dolomites, but I'm not sure about your timing there, either.

Two nice smaller cities between Venice and the Dolomites are Padua and Vicenza. Many people like Verona, also conveniently located. I haven't been there, so I don't know how crowded it would be in early fall.

My guess is that you'll need/want a car only in the Tuscan countryside.

Assuming

I really don't want to spend less than 2 nights in any spot.

Good thinking here. 2 nights is really only 1 day for sightseeing, plus maybe a partial day if travel to new location is not long.
I'd aim for more 3-4 night stays if possible.

Do you have 15 nights or 14 nights? Count your trip as nights not days.
On a 15 night trip I'd try to narrow to 3 or 4 locations max.

A car is useful and recommend for Tuscany. Driving there was a breeze. Read up on what you need to get (IDP and know (ZTLs) beforehand.

Hope you can convince your husband that Rome is a must. Aren't all cities a bit dirty and crowded? I don't think Rome is any worse/different than others in that respect. And it is Rome! (From all my reading CT seems like the MOST crowded area in all of Italy- that's the stop I would probably skip as it requires a few more transfers/travel/time to get there.)

I was anxious about Rome on our first trip- we put it at end of a 17 night vacation- and actually had 5 nights. We LOVED it and are going back again next month.

I did mean Venice and not Vienna! Sorry. I do feel like we probably need 3 nights in Venice. (I've heard it described on a forum post here though as a dirty slum or some such thing - comments? Worth it?) I'm thinking of skipping the Dolomites. We love the mountains but if you're out hiking by yourselves I'm thinking it's not that different from hiking in the Rockies or at Glacier. Want the Italian experience.

As far as time, my husband and I can squeeze 15 nights out for sure. Our friends have more of a vacation problem.

When I say Lake Como I was thinking maybe Verenna overnight, walking, taking the ferries, wandering the little cities, so I'd really like to keep that in the plan and I'd really like to do Cinque Terre, hiking those villages. What will weather be like in late September/October? Swimming or not?

What about this?

Venice - 3 nights,
Lake Como - 3 nights,
Cinque Terre - 3 nights,
Hill towns - 3 nights,

Rome 3 nights

Would a train work for all those places but the hill towns? Where would we pick up a car and drop it? Drive to Rome? Pick up car in Cinque Terra? Where town would you suggest we stay in where we could get out and drive to other villages and just go a little slower?

My husband loves to cycle so we could ride the Appian way maybe. That would make him happy. Thanks for that suggestion. I think we need to go to Rome.

Also do you think this is a good overview of at least northern Italy? We don't have time to go south I don't think. Are we duplicating too many experiences? Are we missing something we really need to see?

I appreciate all your suggestions and comments. I love the planning. Some hate it but for me it's anticipation.

I know you took out the Dolomites, but I loved them. It's a different experience than the Rockies. Taking gondolas up mountains, walking around, getting lunch in huts, and taking gondolas back down is a very civilized way of hiking. :) You can look at pics online to see if it appeals to you. The only concern would be weather, but three nights in Ortesei gives you a couple fulls days of hiking, one day for the mountains on each side of the town. It would, however, mean giving up Cinque Terre or Como. To get there, you'd take the train from Venice to Verona, change to a train to Bolzano, and probably bus to Ortesei from there. Not hard, and it's a little different culturally than the other areas you're going to.

And Rome has a lot of people because it's a big city, but it also has more room for those people to spread out. The crowds will probably be at the Trevi Fountain and the Vatican museums. Otherwise, it's typical city stuff. I've never been to Cinque Terre, but from what this forum says, you may have bigger crowds there than in Rome.

Have you looked at Lake Garda? Largest of Italy's lakes, beautiful towns, some great opportunities for biking.

https://fullsuitcase.com/lake-garda-best/

This would also condense the amount of transfer time between locations.

This would be your itinerary would be.

Venice-Verona, (train)-Tuscany-Rome. You would need a car for the lake and Tuscany and the drive to LaSpezia could save time too but could be done by train..Then train to Rome.

Look at Rome2rio.com for approximate travel times.

I picked late September and October to avoid some of the crowds at Cinque Terre and other places. I was hoping it wouldn't be as bad as summer. My son and DIL were there and they loved it.

Now I'm really confused. The Dolomites do appeal to me. That's why I put them in originally I read a blog on them. I guess if I was thinking the Dolomites and Lake Como or Lake Garda I might opt for renting a car to those places.

I can see how Lake Garda would be more direct for me to get to the other places we want to visit but not as much info. I might need to do a lot of digging if I was spending 3 nights there. At Lake Como you could visit several towns just by taking the ferry. Looks like I could take the train to Varenna with one stop and wouldn't need a car. I'm sure there are other options but not sure where to start with that.

What to give up and what to include? I guess the whole transportation thing needs to be considered too. I really don't want to do a tour.

We have been to the Dolomites and Cinque Terre twice In late September. The Dolomites are unique and different than hiking the Rockies but they are bit out of the way for what you seem to want to do. Cinque Terre is not like anything in the USA, hence it is very popular. However, most of the tourists are day trippers and leave in the afternoon and do not venture onto all of the hiking trails. We spent four nights in Cinque Terre last visit and hiked to all the towns except Riomaggiore. We also hiked from Levanto to Monterosa (trail not part of the park), which was fabulous. If our hike ended in Monterosa we would take a dip in the Ligurian sea. We did not experience unbearable crowds the end of September. Also Cinque Terre is close to Tuscany and you want to spend time there. You could use trains nearly everywhere and maybe rent a car in La Spezia when leaving Cinque Terre to see the hill towns. Whatever you plan it will be fabulous. We are actually planning our third trip to Italy right now for 2020.

Some additional info on Lake Garda. Tons of ferrys!

https://lovelakegarda.net/lake-garda-ferries/

Try this path.

Venice. 3 nights.

Train to Bolzano 2:41. Train faster than car.

Bolzano. Rent car head to...
Ortisei. 3 nights. Hiking ,biking, lifts, food,fab views.

Ortisei- Riva del Garda

Riva del Garda - Malcesine. 3 nights

Malcesine- Verona-Florence/Tuscany 3-4 hrs. Dependent on location.

Tuscany-Chiusi about 1.5 hrs. Drop car. Train to Rome 1:5 hrs.

3 nights Rome.

There is much better hiking in the Dolomites than Cinque Terre.

Look up the towns on Lake Garda. You won't be disappointed.

We will be traveling with another couple, so we might think of apartments or rooms that can accommodate us 4. I would only choose a place that has 2 bathrooms. . . . and AC in Rome, Venice, and maybe other places too.

Venice is one of my very favorite cities. Avoid the main tourist areas during the day (mainly around Rialto Bridge and Piazza San Marco). Visit them in the early morning and evening hours, when the day trippers are gone. It's surprisingly easy to walk 5-10 minutes away from them and find quiet, picturesque rios (minor canals).

"My husband doesn't really want to go to Rome, has this idea it's dirty and crowded, but it seems like a good place to end our trip and fly home and of course there are things we really should see if we're in Italy."

I actually disagree with both parts of this. Rome is one of my favorite places; sure there are crowds, but you can also escape them. On the other hand, no place is a "must see." As others have said, you can't see all of Italy in 2 weeks; if other places draw you more, go to them instead.

If flying out of Rome is most convenient, but you want to see other places instead, you can always just stay in an airport hotel the night before your flight.

I didn't go to Rome on my first Italy trip (Milan, Venice, Florence, and day trips from Florence). Many were scandalized - "how can you visit Italy and not go to Rome?" But I just had no interest at that time. However, that first trip kindled an interest in Rome, and I made it the focus of my second Italy trip, and loved it. Who knows how I would have felt if I had gone on that first trip, only out of obligation rather than a genuine desire to be there?

It seems like some of you are you suggesting that we bypass Cinque Terre but it's something my husband and I both want to do and I think we'd be sorry or feel we missed out if we didn't include it. Maybe after being there we will wish we hadn't but I feel we need to leave that in.

Also I've been talking to our friends that we planned going with us and they are on the fence. If they don't go and another couple go with us I would probably keep the Dolomites in. The first couple does not hike; the second couple loves it. They also may be more flexible on vacation time.

Looking at a map and doing some limited research it looks like we could spend some time in Riva on Lake Garda and would be fairly close to the Dolomites there. May consider that option if the second couple go with us instead. Maybe we could extend a couple days and do

3 nights Venice
3 nights Lake Garda
3 nights Domoites
3 nights Cinque Terra
3 nights hill towns
3 nights Rome.

Do you think that the lake area is too much like Cinque Terre? Are we duplicating or missing something special in northern Italy that would give us the Italian experience?

Thanks for all your input!

hey crose
i agree with gerri about lake garda. few years ago we were in venice and took an overnight trip to bardolino on lake garda for their annual wine festival, last weekend of sept first weekend of october.
we rented a room at hotel nettuno on a sunday night, right on the lake. walked to fabulous festival, so much food, wine, & fun. (last night has fireworks over lake)
check lake-garda.eu (change language)
lakegarda.com
dutchbloggeronthemove.com (she has article about bardolino)
we loved the area. they do have ferries on the lake there that stops at different places on lake. we had a car and drive a little ways north thru small villages, needed more time. had lunch in peschiera del garda and walked a little around town, then drove back to venice.
further north is the town of spiazzi, with the church, santuario basilica madonna della corona, built into the cliff. maybe stop and have lunch is one of few cafes.
driving north to malcesine, haven't been but lots of posters love that area.
lucca is a smaller town, luccatoiurs.com, apartmentslucca.com, come&seeitaly.com
outside of rome, oldfrascatiwine tour.com (read blog & about us), withlocals.com (beautiful countryside day trip: castelli romani
venice: walk the canals, crossing bridges to see different "districts". getting "lost" taking a zig instead of a zag, finding interesting things around every corner. look up schezzini.it alessandro does a cichetti tour (bar tour, small bites, wine and history of venice).
you'll be doing lots of research and seeing what interests your gang. it pays off knowing before hand which helps to make this trip fun and not stressing. any other questions come back and ask, these posters are great and here to help you; the good, bad and ugly. it's your decision. have fun and enjoy
aloha

Thanks so much for all the info on Lake Garda. That sounds like a perfect place to stop and enjoy a few days.. I love the idea of the wine festival. I'm going to check out all those links you sent.

I also like the idea of just walking and "getting lost" in Venice. I'm thinking it will feel like a more geniune experience. The alessandro tour sounds great too.

I told our friends they need to let us know by May 1 if they're going or not. Then I'm going to come back with more firm places and length. You all are so helpful.

Thank you!

Sorry. One more thing. If we think about the Dolomites for 3 nights, would late September/early October weather be too cold or snowy for hiking and enjoying in this mountainous area?

In my experience, no. My husband and I were on the RS My Way Alpine tour at the same time of the year in 2017 and our group stayed at Hotel Cavallino D'Oro in Castelrotto - lovely hotel with a wonderful breakfast. It's an easy bus ride to the base of the Alpe di Siusi where you can catch the first gondola up to the meadows. From there you have more lifts to choose from depending on where you want to hike. My husband is much more of an avid hiker than I am so he went off on his own for a bit and I sat in lone splendor just outside the very convenient, uncrowded hut, which served food and had restrooms. The Dolomites are breathtaking beautiful and are very much worth experiencing - we intend to go back at some point and further explore northern Italy. It was chilly in the mornings and then a sunny, clear 60 degrees while we were there - we love traveling in shoulder season because we find the weather more comfortable for all the walking involved. On a separate note, on our My Way tour in 2015 at the same time of year, one of the stops was the Cinque Terre. The weather was beautiful when we arrived but when we woke up the next day it was cold, overcast and very windy. Weather changes can happen rapidly - I've learned to consider this when I pack - a variety of layers and always a raincoat and umbrella. Better to have them and not need them (which happened on our recent Sicily tour) than to need them and not have them. Have fun planning!

Thank you for the information on the Dolomites. I think we need to include it in our plans. And for sure we need to pack for all sorts of weather. It's a little hard when you're trying to do carry on with hiking boots and jackets but I hope to make it work. I'll be back here when our friends decide if they're going to go and then I think I can make a better plan. I'm so excited.