14 day honeymoon in Italy, part 2

It will be difficult to tie both of your threads together since they both cover the same ground. Which thread would you like your answers on?

RB If you have a look around the archives here you will see frequent discussion about the early flights from Venice, and that the buses, vaporetti, and Alilaguna boats start plenty early enough for a comfortable, albeit granted early departure.

Julie, Regarding "suggestions for other towns", I'm not sure you'll have time to add other towns. You might add a day trip from one of the towns already on your Itinerary. Regarding the "recent disaster in the Cinque Terre", YES I believe you will have a good experience. As I suggested in my other reply, I'd add at least one day to this portion of your trip. A few things to remember are: > Three of the five villages were not affected by the flood, and I'm sure they would be happy to have visitors. > Only the "old town" was affected in Monterosso, and I believe that will be ready for tourists by late April. If not, book a Hotel in the "new town". For an ideal honeymoon location, you might have a look at This B&B in Manarola, This B&B or This Hotel in Monterosso. Your idea to use open-jaw flights (inbound Venice, outbound Rome) is really the best plan for a 14-day trip. The airport in Rome is VERY accessible from the city via the Leonardo Express (easy 30-minute trip right to FCO). Given the few rail trips you'll be taking, I'd probably just buy P-P tickets. Have a look at Ron's excellent website, especially concerning the "Mini" fares. With a Railpass, you'd still need to pay for the compulsory reservation fees separately, so I'm not sure it would be the most cost effective solution. I see NO advantage to renting a car, especially in Florence. You'd need to avoid the numerous ZTL areas there (each pass through a Camera results in a €100+ ticket) and you would each need the compulsory I.D.P. I don't know of any bike rentals. Cheers!

Nigel, Thanks for the update. Buon viaggio,

Julie, I think Rome is very romantic. Take a look at Ron in Rome's photos of Rome at night. I agree that Orvieto would make a good day trip rather than a two-night stay. If you decide not to do Cinque Terre, you could easily substitute the Amalfi Coast at that time of year, although the towns in Cinque Terre will be happy to have tourists come back. I think vehicle rental should be the lowest priority. All of the places you mention can be easily reached by train or bus.

I apologize for posting in two placesthis section of the Rick Steves website is currently having technical difficulties and this is how the manager suggest I post. We are now looking at starting in Rome and finishing in Venice. The tickets we are looking at have us arriving in Rome at 9am. We are hoping that it will be a very romantic end to our trip. Thoughts??? Which hill-town would you recommend touring agritourismos from? I'm not sure if I want to give up staying in OrvietoI was so enchanted with it when I visited on a day trip when I went in college. What do you think of cutting one night in Siena, and adding it to Cinque Terre? Or cutting Sienna altogether and possibly making it a day-trip? I know the night-time is very lovely there as well. The only reason we thought we may rent a car was to get to the agritourismos. How do we get to those places from Siena or Orvieto? Taxi? Thank you so much for sharing this "Ron in Rome" website. I can't wait to explore it! Thanks for all the great suggestions!!

You could visit Venice, Florence, and Roma at a slow pace and still be romantic at a relaxed itinerary. Venice at night is a completely different place after 7 p.m. when all of the day trippers have departed. Get lost as you wander the back streets and do not worry about seeing every last sight. Florence in the evening on Piazza Del Signora has scheduled and unscheduled concerts in addition to some very talented street musicians. Roma is always romantic in the evening just strolling around, especially in the old section. Orvieto is a good day trip since it is only a 75 minute train ride from Roma. Also, you might consider making a day trip to Ville di Este and Hadrian's Villa because they are very close to each other. It would probably be cheaper to buy point-to-point rail tickets instead of a railpass. I have a Harley, but we do not rent bikes over there. Maybe you should become somewhat familiar with Italian traffic patterns before you rent. Here in the USA we ride motorcycles staggered from left to right and in Italy they ride on the extreme right of the lane and they are not staggered. Plus, driving in Italy is an ADVENTURE in motoring. We spend a month their every year with a rental car and the Italian drivers never cease to amaze us. Two years ago on the Autostrada we watched a motorcyclist traveling at an extremely high rate of speed weaving in and out of traffic with his right hand on the throttle and his left hand holding a cell phone to his ear under his helmet. Buon viaggio,

Which hill-town would you recommend touring agritourismos from? . . . The only reason we thought we may rent a car was to get to the agritourismos. Agritourismos are usually small farms or other agricultural operations which, as a sideline, rent rooms. Are you touring them to prepare for a later trip? If you look around further on the Ron in Rome website you can find information about driving in Italy, and plenty about riding a motorbike or motorino in Italy. There is a link to a very informative video that explains why I and others suggest thinking carefully about it. BTW - I drive every year in Italy, but no way would I ride, nor would I go near the centre of Florence. Driving in all of Italy is an adventure,and driving south of Northern Italy can be very exciting (not in a good way). To survive you must get into the state of mind of the drivers in the part of Italy you want to have your adventure. If you still decide to do it, get the top insurance. There is a reason why so many Italian cars have so many dents on the front, back, and sides. If you still decide to ride, make sure your life insurance is paid up and bring heavy leathers and a really good skid lid.

Personally, I would drop the CT and boost your time in Rome and Venice. It's not going to be at its best in April, especially this April. I agree that you're trying to cram too many locations into this itinerary. You're making it almost impossible to relax and enjoy any one place if you're there for only 2 nights, imho. Happy travels.

From your advice, I think we will simplify our lives and not worry about renting a car or a bike. I'm sure we will have plenty to see and do by public transportation and by foot. I am also thinking we should cut staying in one of the hill-towns, and possibly reducing our time in the other to a one night stay. That could possibly make our new schedule this: Day 0 (Monday 23rd): Depart Wichita Day 1 (Tuesday 24th): Rome Day 2 (Wednesday 25th): Rome Day 3 (Thursday 26th): Rome (day-trip to Pompeii) Day 4 (Friday 27th): Rome Day 5 (Saturday 28th): Orvieto Day 6 (Sunday 29th): Orvieto Day 7 (Monday 30th): Florence Day 8 (Tuesday 1st): Florence Day 9 (Wednesday 2nd): Florence (day-trip to Siena) Day 10 (Thursday 3rd): Cinque Terre Day 11 (Friday 4th): Cinque Terre Day 12 (Saturday 5th): Cinque Terre Day 13 (Sunday 6th): Venice Day 14 (Monday 7th): Venice
Day 15 (Tuesday 8th): Depart Venice I am hesitant to drop the Cinque Terre just because it looks very lovely and it would be a new place for me personally. I have been to all of the other cities and am very curious to experience it. By reversing our schedule (Rome to Venice) I'm hoping the weather may warm as we work our way north. On the flip side, if it just isn't the best time to visit it, maybe we should consider dropping it...

We were in CT (Monterosso) 4 nights at end Sept/early Oct. Very lucky. Gorgeous weather. I wanted to stay in an agriturismo in Italy but did not want to rent car. We found Buranco Agristurismo in RS book and stayed there. It is up a steep hill from the relatively flat old town. About 5-10 min hike to nearest beach, maybe 12 min to train station and rest of new town. Roosters crowing outside our windows, gorgeous vineyard views from our terrace (no water views, though). They produce wine and I think olive oil and honey. I have no idea what their current condition is since the floods and mudslides. You could check their website for a look at the facilities. Be sure you know what you are getting. I thought we had an aptmt, but it had no kitchen or dining area, just 2 decent bedrooms, bathroom, sm vestibule, and nice terrace w table and chairs. it was a misunderstanding and we were disappointed, but still loved the place and the people running it. We negotiated on the rates before booking. They do have full aptmts, too. Angelo (employee) speaks Spanish, as well as Italian.
Nice breakfast, congenial staff. Cool places to hike to in and around Monterosso, even before you get on the CT trail to Vernazza. (no idea of trail condition currently)

With your planned departure from Venice you may have an extremely early flight. I've read on Frommer's Italy Forum that the time you would need to be at the airport may be before public transportation is operating requiring you to use a more costly mode of transit to the airport. As a rule of thumb on Frommer's Forum, the suggestion is to fly into Venice and home from Roma. In 2008 I spent three nights in Orvieto, which, IMHO, was two nights too many. The town rolls up its sidewalks and closes by 9 p.m. You can go to Pompeii by train, but several years ago we used enjoyrome.com for a no frills down and back tour to the Scavi. We were on our own once we arrived and we were in Pompeii for four hours. I would drop Le Cinque Terra, also. The area is digging out from the disaster and I would find another place to hang out. Maybe you could add the days to Roma and Venice. The Italians have a saying, "Il dolce di far' niente." It means the sweetness of doing nothing. Another suggestion would be to build in a do nothing day to relax. You want this to be a leisurely honeymoon not a marathon at a dead run. Sitting at an outside cafe sipping an espresso and watching the world go by is a legitimate vacation activity. Buon viaggio,

Julie, Your latest Itinerary looks good, however I'd suggest changing the order. Would this work: > Day 7 - Train from Orvieto to Cinque Terre (there's a train departing 09:33 and arriving La Spezia at 14:19 - time 4H:46M, one change at Firenze Rifredi, current second class fare is €28.40). You didn't say which of the five villages you were planning to stay in, but you can easily reach any of them in a few minutes from La Spezia Centrale. > Day 8 - C.T. > Day 9 - C.T. > Day 10 - Train from La Spezia to Florence (there's a train departing 10:06, arriving Firenze SMN at 12:00 - time 1H:54M, one change at Pisa Centrale, current second class fare is €14.90, reservations compulsory on one section - note that your destination station is Firenze Santa Maria Novella). > Day 11 - Florence - day trip to Siena (use Bus for the trip to Siena & back) > Day 12 - Florence > Day 13 - Train to Venice (there are trains every hour - time 2H:03M, reservations compulsory, current second class fare is €43 - note that your destination station is Venezia Santa Lucia). > Day 14 - Venice > Day 15 - Depart Venice Regarding a previous comment..... "I would drop Le Cinque Terra, also. The area is digging out from the disaster and I would find another place to hang out." I respectfully but vigorously disagree! It's important to remember that only TWO of the five villages were affected by the disaster. I've been monitoring the recovery efforts on a daily basis, and I really believe Monterosso will be ready to receive visitors in late April (and will no doubt appreciate the business). Vernazza will likely take longer, so at this point, I'm not sure what their status will be in April. You could also stay at one of the three other villages. Cheers!

Julie, One further comment (I ran out of room in the previous reply).... I suggested the change in route, as the trip from the Cinque Terre to Venice is a long one, and as I recall it's at least six hours with perhaps three changes. I thought the "change of order" would be more efficient. Cheers!

we went to Venice from Monterosso train station. There was a train departing around 10:30 a.m that stopped in Milano Centrale for about 45 min, then we caught the train to Venice. Only one change. Beautiful coastal scenery much of the way. I think it took about 6 hrs but was very relaxing because only one switch and no worries about missing the connection, because enough time in Milan. We bought tickets (reservations) days ahead while still in Rome. We learned about this option from others on this blog before we went to Italy this fall. (thanks again, everybody, for all the great help to me and others)

I want to thank you all so much for all your help! I haven't had a chance yet to really look at the train travel (in regards to the Florence - Cinque Terre - Venice) section of our trip yet but I will soon. We booked our tickets last night and are flying into Rome, out of Venice. I'm hoping to finalize our itinerary soon so we can look at booking our rooms for each city. We are now considering cutting a night in either Orvieto or Florence and adding it to Venice since we will lose a half a day just to the time it takes to get there...

You could definitely drop a night in Orvieto. Leave Rome early in the morning to arrive in Orvieto as soon as you can. Pre-arrange with your lodging to drop your bags there. Find out what's the latest you can show up at your lodging in Florence, and pick the next day's departure train accordingly. That will give you the most bang for your buck in Orvieto. If you're wondering what to expect in any of these places in April, remember you can use photo sites such as flickr.com to run searches restricted to certain dates. For example, you could search for photos with the word "Orvieto" taken in any particular year in April. It's a great resource.

To me, dusk and darkness in Siena is magical and romantic. If you only go for a day trip, stay late!

We are getting very close to finalizing our itinerary (less hopping, more relaxing) and would appreciate any last suggestions on places to stay. Our budget would ideally be around $150, give or take (and expect to pay more in Venice). We think we will prefer charming over lavish... In Rome, we would like to be in an area that has a romantic nightlife. Reading Rick Steves, he recommends places close to the Pantheon. Does anyone have a particular recommendation? We have decided to stay in Casa Selita in Orvieto. Romantic stays in Cinque Terre? We have not committed to any town yet are open to suggestions. We are looking at this boat tour place in Monterosso that has a sunset tapas tour... http://www.angelosboattours.com/#!tours Venice? Again, being close to romantic night life would be nice. Day 0 (Monday 23rd): Depart Wichita Day 1 (Tuesday 24th): Rome Day 2 (Wednesday 25th): Rome Day 3 (Thursday 26th): Rome (day-trip to Pompeii) Day 4 (Friday 27th): Rome Day 5 (Saturday 28th): Rome Day 6 (Sunday 29th): Orvieto Day 7 (Monday 30th): Orvieto Day 8 (Tuesday 1st): Orvieto Day 9 (Wednesday 2nd): Cinque Terre Day 10 (Thursday 3rd): Cinque Terre Day 11 (Friday 4th): Cinque Terre Day 12 (Saturday 5th): Venice Day 13 (Sunday 6th): Venice Day 14 (Monday 7th): Venice
Day 15 (Tuesday 8th): Depart Venice Do you have any ideas for romantic excursions out of Rome? I thank you all for your wonderful suggestions. You have been very helpful!

Julie, Concerning the Cinque Terre, we are staying in Corniglia in May 2012, so we've been trying to keep up with the reconstruction efforts there. Among other sources of information, we stay in touch with Maria Angela who owns the B&B we're staying at.
As others have said, three towns- Riomaggiore, Manarola and Corniglia- were not damaged in the floods. The Monterosso new town was not damaged, while the old town was damaged but will probably be up and running by Easter. Vernazza will take some time to come back- probably many months. Trains are operating normally. The status of the hiking trails, however, eludes us. We certainly hope we can hike on some of them- but regardless, we're going.

@Gary, At the present time, only the famous Via dell'Amore (Riomaggiore/Manarola) is open. The situation with the trails will undoubtedly change before May, and hopefully most of the trails will be open then. Cheers!

Take a look at La Calcina in Venice. I was very pleased with it in all respects. An alternative to the CT would be to head to the Amalfi coast instead. Motorcycle - how would you deal with your luggage?

I posted earlier in the thread about trains and accommodations in Monterosso.
Didn't take the sunset boat tour, but was wandering the breakwater/pier around early evening (great place to hang out in Monterosso...there are actually 2 such places in the old town and the new town) and a group came back on one of Angelo's boats. they seemed VERY happy. Looked like they had a good time.

Thank you, Ken!

My husband and I took our one year anniversary trip to Italy this past September- we did a similar itinerary. Here is what happened for us (and our thoughts).
We flew into Venice- it was a great spot to get over jet lag. We stayed for 3 nights in a gorgeous B&B, where we had a view on a quiet canal- so romantic! We stayed in the Cannaragio district, and loved its local feel. We did a bar hopping tour with Allessandro (recommended by Rick), and it was also amazing. We then took the train to the Cinque Terre for 2 nights, staying in Manarola. We did the lunch tour with Angelo's boat tour, and LOVED it- the best part was swimming in the Mediterranean- try to get a day tour if you can :). We also did some hiking, and just relaxing and eating- some of the best food we had was here on our entire trip. After we headed to Lucca, in Tuscany for 2 nights. We liked Lucca, and rented a 2 person bike to ride around the walls- fun and romantic. We stayed in an affordable B&B and met a few other young couples, which was nice. Then we went to Florence for 2 nights. We started with a cooking class by the Spice Lab- one of the highlights of our entire trip. We are now very popular with our friends for the fresh pasta we make home :) HIGHLY recommended. We loved the B&B we stayed in in Florence, but didn't fall in love with Florence itself. Two days was enough (shopping was great though). We then ended our trip with 5 nights in Rome, including a day trip to Pompeii. I'm glad we saved Rome for last, as we found it the most intense- and we were able to appreciate it. My husbands favourite day was our trip to Pompeii- we had a fabulous private guide, which made it much more worthwhile. We also stopped in Naples at the first ever pizzaria (Da Michele- HEAVEN). All in all, our trip was excellent. If you have any questions, feel free to PM me. :)

@Gary, (and others that are interested), For updated information on the Cinque Terre trails, have a look at This Website. If everything goes according to plan, you should be able to hike all the trails! Cheers!

Laura, it's really funny that we have so many similarities in our trip! I hope that we don't regret having Rome for the beginning of our trip instead of the end...we have booked our tickets so it is what it is I suppose! Our lodging in Rome is our splurge of the trip. It looks to be very nice and romantic and we can see the Trevi fountain from our window. We are excited to be close to so many wonderful sights. We will have four nights there and we are hoping to have a relaxed pace. We are not planning on visiting the Vatican so that eliminates an entire day according to some itineraries. We are planning on a day trip to Pompeii too! I think we will save this for the day before we leave Rome. The pizzaria idea is wonderful. We are then planning on staying three nights in Orvieto and are going to do a winery tour at Decugnano dei Barbi. They coincidentally offer a cooking class and we are not sure if we will do it or not. It sounds like you had a wonderful time with yours! We are also planning on a day trip to Civita di Bagnoregio. We were thinking about time at a spa, INNCASA, but you have to stay there to get any treatments. It's pricier than what we wanted to spend (and still most likely much cheaper than it would be in a bigger city) but could be worth it...they have the most amazing looking infinity pool that overlooks Orvieto. What a view! We are skipping Florence...I feel like you confirm my feelings. I visited it a few years ago and liked it but didn't feel it was particularly romantic.

We spend three nights in the Cinque Terre in Manarola. We are thinking about Angelo's Boat Tour too! I'm glad to hear the day trip was worth the money--we need to pick and choose our "extras". Please let me know what your favorite food places are. We love food! :) We end our trip with four nights in Venice (2 1/2 days of actual time there). We have also booked what appears to be a nice B&B in the Cannaragio district. We have not formed an itinerary for Venice yet. I will have to message you for a few more particular recommendations! Thank you Ken for the website recommendation! Just what we needed to to track the progress.