Traveling to Europe for the first time.

You don't say how many people you are moving around but, in general, the fewer places you go the better. I think you will be happier not trying to squeeze in another city in Italy. Six nights is only five full days, and you are probably flying out on day 6, so that day won't be usable for sightseeing. Railpasses are seldom a better deal than point to point tickets, and I think that is particularly true in Italy.

Re: Italy: Don't buy a railpass, point-to-point tickets are cheap in Italy. You can buy reserved-seat tickets (no changes, no refunds) up to 120 days in advance.

Venice is too far for a convenient daytrip (4 hours each way), but if you want to shave a couple of days off of Rome you could make it an additional stop. Florence has so much to see (and it's 2+ hours each way) that I would save it for another trip.

People will suggest spending much less time in Rome, I lived in Rome on and off for several years and I think 4 days is the minimum if you don't want to rush around.

Hi Jk! Venice is too far for a day tip. And while you could technically get back and forth to Florence in a day, there is way too much to see for one day.

I think you could argue both sides of the coin on whether to stop in Florence for two nights on your way to Rome. But that would still mean only one full day in the city. And if you say you like a more relaxed pace, I think you would feel rushed. Especially if there are younger children on the trip. And since it is your first trip to Europe. Those travel days can take a lot out of you. My preference would be to stay in Rome. Have a great trip!!

I don't have any issues taking a day to go to Florence. Heck, I drive 2 hours just to go to a baseball game. Its only 1 1/2 hours on the train. If you pick a day you can get a RT ticket for 68 euro total for 2 people. Leave at 7 in the morning and be back in Rome by 10 pm would give you 12 hours in Florence. You'd have to buy well in advance to get that fare, but you know you'll be there, so go ahead. It's not really weather dependent. You can go rain or shine.

There are 4 of us my husband and two boys but they aren't really young. One is 17 and the other is 22. Sam that is what I had thought. I regularly travel 1.5 hours one way to Portland. I visit and fiddle around and then come home that night. Which is why I thought Florence might be okay to do. I knew Venice was a bit far and would require at least an overnight and couldn't decide if we should do it. I appreciate all your comments. It sounds like once we are there, we could decide if we wanted to do a long day trip. How do you all recommend getting around Rome and its sites. We are staying near the Spanish Steps. Should we just get tickets there or is there something we should be aware of and consider, like we did with London?

You get around Rome mostly by walking 'cause that is what they were doing 2000 years ago so things are close. A bit farther with four people, use a taxi. Taxis are very reasonable in Rome. The Spanish Steps is a heavy tourist area so may encounter some heavy crowds. And I would move away several blocks away for eating places.

Yes, these are deep discounts and they will disappear in time. The regular price for 4 people round trip Rome to Florence is 344 euro. By buying well in advance nonrefundable, non changeable tickets, they are called Super Economy tickets and only a small number are allocated to each train, when they sell out, they are gone. Then only higher priced Economy tickets are for sale, when they are gone, only full fare tickets are left. So the Super Economy ticket price is 19 times 4 times 2 which equals 152 euro. There is an additional discount of about 10% for doing a round trip in one day, so it comes to 138 euro.
So there you have it. Save over 200 euro by committing now and picking a day, or wait and decide later and pay more. The tickets go on sale 120 days before the travel date. And, oh yes, one more fly in the ointment will be the semiannual schedule adjustment in mid June. That means you can't buy the tickets until Trenitalia releases the schedule and they are always late. Tickets can be bought and printed at home at www.trenitalia.com

If not Florence, I would at least squeeze Orvieto or the Colli Albani. You are just visiting big cities otherwise.

There is a Roma pass, just like London and Paris.

http://www.romapass.it/

I have never used it. It didn't exist the first time I was in Rome. But I liked the Paris and London passes. I broke even on the cost but liked not having to wait in line.

You all have been terrific. Thank you for the feedback and advice. I like the idea of checking out some of the smaller locals as well. I feel like the passes in all the cities are a good thing especially because of the line issue. However, I read somewhere, perhaps in Steve's Guide book that many of the Paris sites are free to kids under 18 and that it may not be worth the cost of a pass for him. That we could still go to the pass holders line with him and he would be admitted. Is that true? What about cell phones. Can a smart phone be used for translation or does that look too too touristy making us a target for wrong doers? I am beginning to get nervous and am worried about our ability to communicate, so I have been trying to learn a few necessary phrases in Italian. This is going to be one heck of a trip. I know my blatherings sound a bit odd but it has been many many years since I left the country. Thanks again.

Surprisingly, you really won't need to know much French or Italian other than polite greetings and the always useful "Bonjour, Parlez vous L'Anglais?" or "Bon Giorno, Parle Inglese?" In Paris, Rome, and Florence, everyone you are likely to have contact with in the tourist trade (hotels, restaurants, museums, railway ticket windows, etc) will likely answer those questions with "Yes, of course. How may I help you." Then the always handy, "Merci!" or Grazie!" works to sign off. You might have a harder time in London if someone decides to pull out some British slang on you. Unlikely, unless you bring it on yourself.

I would also recommend taking a day in the middle of your Rome stay and taking the train up to Orvieto for a good long day and evening. It's a small ancient hill town with a totally different feel than Rome, and with lots of choices of things to see and do. Just a 70-minute direct train ride from Termini, then a neat funicular up to the old town of Orvieto. The Duomo in Orvieto is spectacular, I could sit there and photograph it for hours, from all angles and during every different part of the day and evening. Try to stay through dinner if you can, as things quiet down considerably in the evening, there are some excellent restaurants to choose from, and it's wonderful to just stroll around after dark. The Rick Steves travel books give good treatment to Orvieto and it's sites.

We had 5 nights in Rome back in Sept, 2008. We managed to squeeze in a day trip to Naples to see Herculaneum and Mt Vesuvius (that was a full day, missing our train stop and losing an hour waiting for the next train to take us back notwithstanding).

One thing I like to recommend (not sure what time of year you'll be there) is the Appian Way (Appia Antica). We caught a bus near Colosseum, it was a beautiful sunny autumn Saturday. We saw the tomb of Cecelia Metella, the catacombs at St Callixtus (check times if you do this - we got there just when they closed for an hour or two over noontime), wandered up the ancient Roman road, saw some lovely homes and there had been another spot where there was an excavated home (can't remember what it was called, but was along the way). Some people rent bikes and bike the road. It was just so relaxing and quiet after the hustle and bustle of Rome proper. I think we spent 4-5 hrs there.

As others have noted, Orvietto is a wonderful day trip. Another possibility is Ostia, ruins of Rome's ancient seaport (now inland). It requires about half day.

While Florence is my favorite city in the world, I probably wouldn't take teens there for a day trip, unless I was certain they loved art, or would come to appreciate it when exposed.

And if you decide to use your smart phone for things like translation, just be really careful about data charges. They can be huge if you don't plan ahead. On my last trip I got Verizon's international data plan, and $25 allowed me very light use over a one-month trip. Check with your carrier about details. Instead of using the translation programs that require data, I just use a few "phrasebook"-type apps.

You can buy apps for French and Italian translation that don't need a network or wifi to run so you won't get charged for date. It is definitely a good idea (and polite) to learn some basic phrases but don't stress over the language barrier. Many of the people you will encounter will speak English, especially those that work in popular tourist areas. Things like menus, ATMs, kiosks in train stations will have an English options. And hand gestures, a smile, and an attempt to use the words you do know can get you a long way!!

A "Day Trip" from Rome to either Florence or Venice is simply not a good idea with a 6 night stay in Rome. Too far, IMO. Agree with the other posters on closer day-trips like Ostia or even Naples/Pompeii -- and that will be a Very Long Day. You are going to fall in Love with Italy, and next time spend some time in Venice and Florence. You will want to return to Rome of course!